Taliban execute pregnant woman in Afghanistan

[T-Rex]

The CIA supported the Haqqanis, Hekmetyar and the various Arabs who were 'Mujahideen' when fighting the Soviets, and are now 'terrorists' since they are fighting the US.

The US also negotiated and engaged with the Taliban in various capacities, most notably to garner support for their oil and gas companies obtaining contracts for building pipelines from the CAR's.

Given the US's history of supporting proxy groups in various nations to overthrow governments and destabilize countries, and your logic of blaming Pakistan for supporting the Taliban currently, the allegations against the CIA by Pakistanis must be true ...

If you want to be 'honest and open minded', lets be consistent.

Please stay on topic instead of making slanderous and unsubstantiated accusations based on speculative drivel.

Now, you've hit the most unpopular note with uncle sam ! Are you accusing uncle sam of previously fundind and raising the Talibans against Iran ? What arrogance !

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

People come back to the topic, including you AgNoStIc MuSliM.

Then members need to refrain from inserting unsubstantiated allegations of Pakistan supporting the Taliban or other terrorists in their posts all over the place. Almost every thread with Indian participation on geopolitics or terrorism gets hijacked by Indian or Westerner comments along those lines.

Either provide categorical evidence in one thread and prove your case, or shut up and stop hijacking threads.

 

[desiman]

This desiman guy is so naive, it's unbelievable. He claims to have a masters degree - but I don't see how someone with masters can be some naive and have such an overly, utterly simplistic way of thinking.

I mean he uses arguments such as - since David Cameron said it, it must be true (btw, now David Cameron said that Iran has nukes, so that must be true too then). That since a lot people believe x, it must be true. I am not exaggerating this - you can say that he made those arguments almost verbatim. I can link the thread where he made those arguments. This is naivety taken to the extreme.

Now, apparently wikileaks leak did not contain unsubstantiated, unverified information FROM AFGHAN INTELLIGENCE. Clearly someone has no idea what they're talking about.

Then for the icing on the cake, check this out:



So since ISI has a hand in creation of Taliban (they didn't create Taliban btw, they merely supported them), they must be supporting them now? We call them unsubstantiated accusation because it is that - an unsubstantiated accusation.

But more importantly, using your very logic, don't you guys do the same? You guys had involvement with Muhkti Bahini and LTTE, but you call the accusations against India unsubstantiated.

First of all stop getting personal, i did not chase anyone personally here so dont get personal also.If you cant argue properly then don’t indulge in a debate. The second you get personal is when you have lost the argument.
Now down to the point, can you point out to me where I said that if Cameron says it, it must be right ? Please stop making things up for your own pleasure. Yes what Cameron said is RIGHT and I stand by that. As India has said again and again, Pakistan is the epicentre of terrorism and Cameron only justified that point. The problem with you guys is that when someone raises their finger at you, rather than analysing why he is doing that you get defensive and start chasing the guy. You come here and question my educational background but you yourself cannot prove why Cameron is wrong. All I have seen on this forum are trolls referencing Cameron’s past or his ancestors and calling him an “Indian Agent” but not one has given a good point. The problem that Pakistan has always suffered with is self-denial and justifying points using an emotional bias. You still don’t except the clear links between Pakistani establishments and terrorist outfits and you justify terrorism in Kashmir using India as an excuse, the thought that lets bleed India to death is still very much alive in Pakistan.

The most convenient argument that you can come up with is a counter argument about the LTTE and the Mukti Bahani lol please grow up and learn how to argue, you conveniently change topic’s and you say that I don’t know what im talking about lol. The discussion here is about the Taliban not the LTTE so please stop pushing in topic when you clearly are running out of topic to talk about. The facts are that the CIA/ISI are the primary’s when it comes to the creation of the Taliban and that Pakistan has always used terror as a state policy and the world is only realizing that now. It so convenient to write everything off as Indian conspiracy against Pakistan but its better for you if you start introspecting. Only when the notion of the good/bad terrorist ends in Pakistan is when you will see any change in your society, until you keep justifying terrorism in India using Kashmir as an excuse change in Pakistan is next to impossible. Your very dear friend Mr.Dance cant wait to get out the old Indian poor people or Indian toilets argument in every thread and you say Indian’s troll lol. Sorry but Indian’s here are a balancing factor that allows a debate, without which you can go around cheat beating in pure delusion.

Next time don’t get personal.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Now, you've hit the most unpopular note with uncle sam ! Are you accusing uncle sam of previously fundind and raising the Talibans against Iran ? What arrogance !

Right, and now the US is accusing the Iranians of funding and supporting the Taliban against the US, while the Iranians accuse the US and UK of funding and supporting Jundullah and various terrorist attacks in Iran ...

Pakistan is waiting for the dust to settle in Afghanistan, and we get blamed merely because we don't trust the US to follow through on its word of 'commitment to Afghanistan', let alone its word of 'commitment to the region'.

They already, for all intents and purposes, abandoned Afghanistan to go wage war in Iraq - what's to stop them from creating domestic hysteria over some other Foreign Policy issue and run away to fight more geo-political games and make some more peoples lives miserable somewhere else?

We all can see that the domestic press is in the US establishment's pocket when it comes to FP issues.

 

[DesiGuy]

Then members need to refrain from inserting unsubstantiated allegations of Pakistan supporting the Taliban or other terrorists in their posts all over the place. Almost every thread with Indian participation on geopolitics or terrorism gets hijacked by Indian or Westerner comments along those lines.

Either provide categorical evidence in one thread and prove your case, or shut up and stop hijacking threads.

it's kinda vice-versa. you blame them and they blame you. both got evidences, but only from their source.

And than third person ends up believing no one.

 

[desiman]

The problem that we always face in such discussions is how to substantiate the so called unsubstantiated accusations ? We can only use information that we have available to us in order to form a debate. What Pakistan’s always think wrong is that Indian’s are out to get them. We are not accusing you personally but the tactics of some of the official agencies on your side. Just like your accusations on RAW or the GOI, we do the same in regards to the ISI and the GOP. So its better you throw the notion that Indians don’t like Pakistani’s out as that it totally untrue. We are enemies on the national level and lets not make it personal here.

 

[desiman]

it's kinda vice-versa. you blame them and they blame you. both got evidences, but only from their source.

And than third person ends up believing no one.

yup its the endless blame game lol sorry im privy to that too, sometimes nationalism clouds my vision, feeling a bit to patriotic recently lol too much bollywood

 

[DesiGuy]

The problem that we always face in such discussions is how to substantiate the so called unsubstantiated accusations ? We can only use information that we have available to us in order to form a debate. What Pakistan’s always think wrong is that Indian’s are out to get them. We are not accusing you personally but the tactics of some of the official agencies on your side. Just like your accusations on RAW or the GOI, we do the same in regards to the ISI and the GOP. So its better you throw the notion that Indians don’t like Pakistani’s out as that it totally untrue. We are enemies on the national level and lets not make it personal here.

Exactly that's what i said. And even the smartest people on this forum are limit to their source. They just don't/can't get out of the box and think from a brain.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The problem that we always face in such discussions is how to substantiate the so called unsubstantiated accusations ? We can only use information that we have available to us in order to form a debate. What Pakistan’s always think wrong is that Indian’s are out to get them. We are not accusing you personally but the tactics of some of the official agencies on your side. Just like your accusations on RAW or the GOI, we do the same in regards to the ISI and the GOP. So its better you throw the notion that Indians don’t like Pakistani’s out as that it totally untrue. We are enemies on the national level and lets not make it personal here.

Again a lack of comprehension as to what is being said - it is precisely unsubstantiated accusations of Pakistani agencies and institutions that many Pakistanis oppose, and that become the fuel for Pakistani accusations against India.

When the Indian media and the GoI continue to publish propaganda after propaganda against Pakistan, and Indian posters parrot those accusations and start thread after thread on them, you can hardly expect Pakistanis to stay quiet and not similarly accuse India. At least the GoP has of late refrained from officially accusing India directly, which is something the GoI is yet to reciprocate.

 

[waraich66]

Islam dont allow execution of Pregnant women.

 

[anathema]

Islam dont allow execution of Pregnant women.

No religion should allow any execution for any purposes !! Who are we to decide who lives and who dies !!
The power who decides is up there ..and he will do that when time comes !

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

it's kinda vice-versa. you blame them and they blame you. both got evidences, but only from their source.

And than third person ends up believing no one.

This started with the histrionics in the Indian media post Mumbai attacks, and they still haven't shoved a lid in their trap. The amount of rubbish published in the Indian media (to the extent that the UN took the step of strongly criticizing them recently over their slander of a UN spokesperson) needs to be checked - this is pure hatemongering directed at brainwashing the Indian public against Pakistan. You see nothing to this extent in the mainstream Pakistani papers like the Dawn, News, Daily Times etc.

 

[DesiGuy]

Islam dont allow execution of Pregnant women.

we all know that. tell this to them. (talibans).

 

[desiman]

Again a lack of comprehension as to what is being said - it is precisely unsubstantiated accusations of Pakistani agencies and institutions that many Pakistanis oppose, and that become the fuel for Pakistani accusations against India.

When the Indian media and the GoI continue to publish propaganda after propaganda against Pakistan, and Indian posters parrot those accusations and start thread after thread on them, you can hardly expect Pakistanis to stay quiet and not similarly accuse India. At least the GoP has of late refrained from officially accusing India directly, which is something the GoI is yet to reciprocate.

Accusation and counter-accusations are a part of South Asian Politics. Its not a lack of comprehension here but the nature of the argument itself. When we accuse you its us looking out for our own country and when you accuse us back its you doing the same. Unfortunately that has built into our thinking now that accusing each other is as easy as breathing. Propaganda is published from both sides and its part of the culture now. I dont want to comment on the GOP not accusing India but the fact remains that until and unless concrete measures are taken to stem hate on a personal level first its unlikely such blame games will stop. Its not about being Indian its about being subject to view that are taught to you since your childhood. Pakistan also accuses India for a variety of things, just the magnitude of threads here accusing India for everything is a testament to that. The GOI has also taken many steps to encourage peace but when our external affairs minister get humiliated in Pakistan, what are Indian's supposed to make of that ? Accusing each other is part of our culture my friend, and on one can stop it for the foreseeable future.

 

[SMC]

Now down to the point, can you point out to me where I said that if Cameron says it, it must be right ? Please stop making things up for your own pleasure.

My point was you say two things.

1. Since many people believe it, it must be true.
2. Since Cameron said it, it must be true.

For point 1, here is your post (point 2 is below):

http://www.defence.pk/forums/1041876-post838.html

Of particular concern are the following parts:

Such big allegations are not made just like that and have some sense of reality behind it.

When so many people are raising fingers against you, there must be some reality behind it. Its time that Pakistan introspects and stop's denying the obvious. The world is not dumb.

You can't run away from this one by spinning it. Your logic is so utterly simplistic, it's almost laughable.

The raising fingers part you're talking about is way to overestimated since anti-Pakistan perception regarding Taliban is way less than indians suggest. Moreover, go back to Iraq war and see the finger raising there.

Yes what Cameron said is RIGHT and I stand by that. As India has said again and again, Pakistan is the epicentre of terrorism and Cameron only justified that point.

Naa, don't see how it justifies it. It's all talk, no evidence.


The bolded part just proved what I said about you above in my point 2. Since Cameron, said it, it must be true.

And since Cameron said that Iran has nukes, that must be true as well. Right?

The problem with you guys is that when someone raises their finger at you, rather than analysing why he is doing that you get defensive and start chasing the guy.

When there is no proof, what is there to look at? What are we suppose to analyze? Fantastic conspiracy theories originating from India and parts of the west? Based on no allegations? We're suppose to analyze that? Because that's the only left to analyze since there is no proof to those conspiracy theories.

You come here and question my educational background but you yourself cannot prove why Cameron is wrong.

YOU and/or Cameron have to prove that Cameron is right. I don't have to prove that Cameron is wrong. Innocent until proven guilty.

All I have seen on this forum are trolls referencing Cameron’s past or his ancestors and calling him an “Indian Agent” but not one has given a good point.

Enough good points have been given above. But you seem to be ignoring that going back in circles.

The problem that Pakistan has always suffered with is self-denial and justifying points using an emotional bias.

Do learn the meaning of denial before using the word. A very important component of denial is overwhelming evidence - which anything but exists right now.

You still don’t except the clear links between Pakistani establishments and terrorist outfits and you justify terrorism in Kashmir using India as an excuse,

What clear links? Again, where is the proof? I can say that you don't accept links between Indian establishment and terrorist outfits. It doesn't have much to it, just like what you're saying. I should accept it based on what?

The most convenient argument that you can come up with is a counter argument about the LTTE and the Mukti Bahani lol please grow up and learn how to argue, you conveniently change topic’s and you say that I don’t know what im talking about lol.

Perhaps YOU need to learn to argue because the reference to LTTE and Mukhti Bahini was very much on topic. I was using those two groups to apply your logic on you. You conveniently dodged that since it would look very bad for you to apply your logic on yourself and see how messed up it is.

The facts are that the CIA/ISI are the primary’s when it comes to the creation of the Taliban and that Pakistan has always used terror as a state policy and the world is only realizing that now.

Naa, I don't see how the world is realizing it. World is smarter than what the media and the state says. Perhaps it's parts of the world, but it's not the way you're suggesting. And besides, not too long ago the world was realizing that Iraq had WMDs. That's the power of propaganda and information warfare.

It so convenient to write everything off as Indian conspiracy against Pakistan but its better for you if you start introspecting.

Don't see where Indian conspiracy comes in or where I mentioned it.

As far as introspecting goes, I gave you something to get you going on YOUR introspection - clearly which you ignored. Here it is again:

US gives us $10 billion aid, 7.5B more to come, military assistance and aid, sells us F-16s, etc. If we were supposedly supporting Taliban (there's no proof for that but let's just assume it to be true), do you seriously think they'd give us aid? Not to mention, our economy was doing pretty good at the time and we didn't actually need the aid.

I am not just talking about democrats. We are alleged to have supported Taliban when republicans were in power. Now we all know their policy as far as any anti-American aggression/anti-american support goes. Instead of attacking us, or for that matter speaking out against is, they gave us 10B aid, and were ready to sell us 76 F-16s.

Something is clearly not right as far as these allegations go. But I guess some prefer keeping their head buried in sand.

Only when the notion of the good/bad terrorist ends in Pakistan is when you will see any change in your society, until you keep justifying terrorism in India using Kashmir as an excuse change in Pakistan is next to impossible.

Don't show me this moral high-ground. Clearly you guys considered Mukhti Bahini good terrorist at once. Same with LTTE. Same can be applied to you. And no, this is not off-topic, I am merely applying your logic to you. But you will ignore that and continuing showing a moral high-ground.