T84 oplot M brief introduction video

[Tipu7]

Yup, but buying a tank that have to be upgraded and, in next years, could become obsolete it's not a good choice. Better a more modern tank as T-90 or similar, even for maintance.

T84 is not our next generation MBT. We need fast replacements of old Type59,69,85 tanks. Our Al Khalid project is not fast enough to overcome fast requirements of armor so it's important to induct a new tank of similar type in our arsenal...... that is why we have T84......And western tanks r not ideal in south Asia as they require a lot of requirements in desert regions and no one here is rich enough to peruse western tanks in large numbers.
And T85 will become obsolete? U kidding? T34 was active in 27 nations in 1990! T55 still operational in several countries with modifications...... so a new T84 which we will induct will be far better than T84 oplot M as it will have 1500hp engine and other regional improvements...... being big brother of T80UD it's easy to induct and master........
We Wil have no objection on facing T90MS of India by our T84s............ If India went for Armata then We will proceed to Atlay to count them.......... things r going very smooth bro

You are welcome to your opinions. Well if you think our tanks are inferior that well that's good for us.

Making an enemy underestimate you is winning half the battle

-Sun Tzu

Edit: FYI India has approved ~1.6 Billion USD deal for 354 T-90 MS tanks which takes total of T 90 tanks with India to 2000

Well we all know better who underestimate who...... We have actually won half battle even before a battle in air,land and sea.....

 

[Gufi]

Yup, but buying a tank that have to be upgraded and, in next years, could become obsolete it's not a good choice. Better a more modern tank as T-90 or similar, even for maintance.

The current state of the Ukrainian economy probably means a better deal then could be gotten at other times. They have agreed to parts being built locally in Pakistan which is an added plus. Also it will be tested for certain areas. Different tanks specialise in different topographic regions and this will be a major factor while buying any tank.
With the Al Zarrar plus the Serbian tanks(if confirmed), Al Khalid and this new addition the ground forces will have a significant advantage in tank availability for different scenarios.

The biggest mistake in military stratagem is preparing for the last war, you need to look where will India be 10 years from now and plan accordingly.

India is not going for any major tank investments from foreign countries in the foreseeable future. The movement towards made in India and a military complex being envisioned by the likes of Tata who have considerable sway in the government plans means that the move will be towards Indian private companies who have partnerships with foreign companies. This will be a long learning curve and will be beneficial in the long term if the Indian army accepts any local merchandise. But for the next decade India is moving to reinvent themselves to reduce military imports. Read into the plans of Tata to move into light tanks etc.

 

[Tipu7]

The current state of the Ukrainian economy probably means a better deal then could be gotten at other times. They have agreed to parts being built locally in Pakistan which is an added plus. Also it will be tested for certain areas. Different tanks specialise in different topographic regions and this will be a major factor while buying any tank.
With the Al Zarrar plus the Serbian tanks(if confirmed), Al Khalid and this new addition the ground forces will have a significant advantage in tank availability for different scenarios.

We r not buying tanks from Serbia...... that T55 news was a joke...... We got enough type59,69 to deal with

 

[Spectre]

India is not going for any major tank investments from foreign countries in the foreseeable future. The movement towards made in India and a military complex being envisioned by the likes of Tata who have considerable sway in the government plans means that the move will be towards Indian private companies who have partnerships with foreign companies. This will be a long learning curve and will be beneficial in the long term if the Indian army accepts any local merchandise. But for the next decade India is moving to reinvent themselves to reduce military imports. Read into the plans of Tata to move into light tanks etc.

Excellent points, just a little more detail. TATAs are going to go with a JV with foreign manufacturer.as they have no tech or experience in tank development.

There is a lot of friction policy wise b/w Indian Govt and Indian Army. Army is not happy with Arjun Series due to it's extra weight even though features demanded necessitate the extra weight and reports suggest Arjun Mk 1 version outperforms T-90, Arjun Mk 2 would be a different class all together.

Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90 | Business Standard News

Saurav Jha's Blog : A look at the Indian Army's Main Battle Tank programs

Initially the plan was for development of FMBT with input from Russia in form of systems incorporated from T-14s along with experience gained from development of Arjun Series but FRCV has effectively killed it.

The mothballed T-72 require a urgent replacement as FRCV will be start delivering by 2025-2027.

What this means is more Arjun Tanks which army does not apparently want or foriegn tanks.

I think Arjun project will fade away and experience and technology gained during all those years of designing it gone to waste

 

[Gufi]

I think Arjun project will fade away and experience and technology gained during all those years of designing it gone to waste

No the actual people who designed it will be hired by the likes of Tata. As for your army accepting anything, well after their rifle joke rejecting every foreign gun, it seems they need a good scolding.

Excellent points, just a little more detail. TATAs are going to go with a JV with foreign manufacturer.as they have no tech or experience in tank development.

Yes I read on it in detail. They will work on a light tank to gain experience and then move on to a MBT.

 

[Spectre]

No the actual people who designed it will be hired by the likes of Tata. As for your army accepting anything, well after their rifle joke rejecting every foreign gun, it seems they need a good scolding.

Yes I read on it in detail. They will work on a light tank to gain experience and then move on to a MBT.

The point stands however India will need to replace it's T-72 and there is a high chance that replacement would be a foreign tank as a stopgap measure until FRCV develops and gets clearance. You as well as I know wheels turn very slowly in India and that development date is likely to exceed the target by atleast 4-5 years

I am not knowledgeable about such matters but to me it seems more T-90 MS would be inducted. Not sure if they fill the same role as T-72 in Indian doctrine but others have pointed out it is a upgraded version of T-72 having same mission profiles

 

[Gufi]

The point stands however India will need to replace it's T-72 and there is a high chance that replacement would be a foreign tank as a stopgap measure until FRCV develops and gets clearance. You as well as I know wheels turn very slowly in India and that development date is likely to exceed the target by atleast 4-5 years

But the same can be said for the purchasing of foreign tanks etc, with the Rafale and Apaches as an example. India has perhaps on of the longest bidding process filled with so much red tape that by the time the approval comes, next generation platforms are coming out of trails which gives the adversaries a good push to perform due to an imminent threat which never comes due to the slow wheel which some factions in the army and government deflate as needed for political/ personal gain or point scoring.
The JF-17 evolved at a much greater pace as a counter to Indian plans. Whether it is effective or not or what are the short falling or whether it is an effective plane is not a debate I will enter here.
The point is this scenario is a base line to explain the Indian wheel and how it needs a good oiling because not only old platforms are bought after years, but at times at double the cost due to this wheel.

 

[Spectre]

But the same can be said for the purchasing of foreign tanks etc, with the Rafale and Apaches as an example. India has perhaps on of the longest bidding process filled with so much red tape that by the time the approval comes, next generation platforms are coming out of trails which gives the adversaries a good push to perform due to an imminent threat which never comes due to the slow wheel which some factions in the army and government deflate as needed for political/ personal gain or point scoring.
The JF-17 evolved at a much greater pace as a counter to Indian plans. Whether it is effective or not or what are the short falling or whether it is an effective plane is not a debate I will enter here.
The point is this scenario is a base line to explain the Indian wheel and how it needs a good oiling because not only old platforms are bought after years, but at times at double the cost due to this wheel.

All good points. Rafale and Apaches were a legacy issue of an inept and corrupt govt but for good or bad we elected them and hence can't give it as an excuse.

This Govt promises to be different so let's see how the process changes or rather not changes.

J-17 is an achievement while Tejas in it's current glory an embarrassment. This view is prevalent among all defense analyst. So no arguments from me on that. I think you guys are doing extremely well within the resource constraints but India for the lack of better words is BIG. It's our size and the resources which come with it which has saved our necks time and again and will continue to do so. This affords us the capability to get things if they are really needed like in Kargil War

That's why getting into an arms race with India with an offensive mindset is futile. The same ofcourse applies to India when compared with China.

 

[Andrei_bt]

There's another active discussion about which is better. The problem is what PA needs to do what.

Btw T-90 has a more modern technology and protection than T-84.

it is official promo from NII Stali (T-90S protection developer).
The T-90S with basic Kontact-5 - defeated from 6 km by M829A2
The T-90S with Relict - defeated from 1,5 km by M829A2

Oplot

undefeated by any APFSDS from 100 m range

 

[airmarshal]

Reactive armor is destroyed once its hit by a shell. So in a war situation, isnt the tank now exposed to deadly hit now that reactive armoe has been destroyed?

I m confused how reactive armor can permanently keep the tank safe.

 

[Tipu7]

Reactive armor is destroyed once its hit by a shell. So in a war situation, isnt the tank now exposed to deadly hit now that reactive armoe has been destroyed?

I m confused how reactive armor can permanently keep the tank safe.

Reactive armor give u second life...... not permanent eternity........ 2 strike at same spot can be deadly.......

 

[Andrei_bt]

Reactive armor is destroyed once its hit by a shell. So in a war situation, isnt the tank now exposed to deadly hit now that reactive armoe has been destroyed?

I m confused how reactive armor can permanently keep the tank safe.

same is with not reactive armor, all modern tanks armor is reactive, but not all explosive reactive-

 

[Kowak]

T84 is not our next generation MBT. We need fast replacements of old Type59,69,85 tanks. Our Al Khalid project is not fast enough to overcome fast requirements of armor so it's important to induct a new tank of similar type in our arsenal...... that is why we have T84......And western tanks r not ideal in south Asia as they require a lot of requirements in desert regions and no one here is rich enough to peruse western tanks in large numbers.
And T85 will become obsolete? U kidding? T34 was active in 27 nations in 1990! T55 still operational in several countries with modifications...... so a new T84 which we will induct will be far better than T84 oplot M as it will have 1500hp engine and other regional improvements...... being big brother of T80UD it's easy to induct and master........
We Wil have no objection on facing T90MS of India by our T84s............ If India went for Armata then We will proceed to Atlay to count them.......... things r going very smooth bro


Well we all know better who underestimate who...... We have actually won half battle even before a battle in air,land and sea.....

The fact that until '90 in several countries there still was T-34-85 doesn't mean it was a "good thing". I'd like to see a country in war with a T-34 against T-80/M1A1/Leopard1... it's ridicolous. If PA needs a good tank to replace old Types, it's good go test T-80 series but we can't say "T-84 is a new tank, he is better than T-90". If we talk about T-80/84 armour, yes, it is a good tank, but (If you check the other discussion related T-84) a guy posted a Greek test on this tank and it failed A LOT against Leclerc/T-80UD/M1A2/Leopard2A5. T-84 is a good tank but not prepared to face modern enemies (of 2015)

The current state of the Ukrainian economy probably means a better deal then could be gotten at other times. They have agreed to parts being built locally in Pakistan which is an added plus. Also it will be tested for certain areas. Different tanks specialise in different topographic regions and this will be a major factor while buying any tank.
With the Al Zarrar plus the Serbian tanks(if confirmed), Al Khalid and this new addition the ground forces will have a significant advantage in tank availability for different scenarios.

Yeah, indeed I agree to buy a tank also for the low cost that T-84 should have in actual ukraine economic condition but, as I said before, buying an old (because T-84 it's not new) tank in 2015 means that in future years PA has to upgrade, do maintance, modifying parts and so on. Things that a new tank probably has not to face.

 

[Andrei_bt]

I said before, buying an old (because T-84 it's not new) tank in 2015 means that in future years PA has to upgrade, do maintance, modifying parts and so on. Things that a new tank probably has not to face.

Oplot is not T-84, it has passed state trials in 2009, 6 years ago whish is rather new in tank terms.

 

[Kowak]

Oplot is not T-84, it has passed state trials in 2009, 6 years ago whish is rather new in tank terms.

How T-84 is not Oplot? There are just two standard version of T-84, the Oplot and T-84-120 Yatagan. What are you talking about?

EDIT: First T-84 was a modified T-80, then there was T-84U and not there is T-84 Oplot and Yatagan turkish version.