T-LORAMIDS Tender | Updates & Discussion

[-SINAN-]

Turkey will build better missiles than the world's largest industrial power? Okay then.

I think, he is trying to say, Turkey by gaining ToT for the missiles will be able to build it's own missiles which will be superior to HQ-9 in the future.

 

[S10]

I think, he is trying to say, Turkey by gaining ToT for the missiles will be able to build it's own missiles which will be superior to HQ-9 in the future.

Superior to HQ-9? That will have to depend on the version. It's not like China is going to stop upgrading the missile system once it is sold to Turkey. Also, the export version of HQ-9 being marketed to Turkey is certainly not the latest variants of HQ-9.

 

[-SINAN-]

Superior to HQ-9? That will have to depend on the version. It's not like China is going to stop upgrading the missile system once it is sold to Turkey. Also, the export version of HQ-9 being marketed to Turkey is certainly not the latest variants of HQ-9.

And even if we surpass HQ-9, you still got HQ-19. I will try to explain in a simple way. You sell us missile and we are going to develop a missile that will be superior to one you sold to us. (most likely and in the future)

 

[Mikethedyke]

This is a great development for both countries! Turkey gets ToT and a good deal in general, China gets a sale to a reputable country which can pave a way to more sales. I've always respected Turkey's domestic industries, obviously Turkey can't match the big boys like the US, China, Russia etc. since Turkey has smaller funds and domestic market but in its own weight class, Turkey is among the best.

Nationalist trolls from all sides needs to take a chill pill

 

[cabatli_53]

Ok Turkey may not have asked for ToT,but the RIM-156 BLOCK IV was to be controlled by Raytheon's fire control system,and that may have played a role in Turkey rejecting the missile as there is no news of that missile being integrated into Turkish navy as it was planned previously. That is the basis of my speculation that Turkey will build her own naval version of HQ-9 similar to Chinese HHQ-9.
The VLS will be simpler as no below deck flame diverting ramps will be needed.
Anyway the Janes Article i was referring to is this...Let me know if you can deduce anything further after reading this.

Development of Genesis has not any connection with Raytheon. As I stated out that Havelsan had to cooperate Raytheon to upgrade foreign Perry clas frigates cause of integration of SAM system into Genesis network worldwide.

Genesis Perry with ESSM

 

[hacksquat]

Our Chinese friends should be more confident in themselves. FD-2000 is already an older tech for China and this is exactly why they are willing to share it's tech with us. I must say I am also surprised by some of Chinese member's remarks in this thread. Some even went as far ahead as calling us radical terrorists for gods sake.

So many stupid ideas were thrown around yesterday. Take for example Turkey getting the first shipment, transfer it to US and cancel the rest of the deal. Does anybody really believe this is a possibility? How in the world would we be able to buy weapons again from anyone but US in the future. And all this talk we wouldn't be allowed this, we woldn't be allowed that ...etc is really condescending. We are an independant country for gods sake. It is not like NATO has the control of our defences. I am sure all of these concerns will be taken care of. I really find it hard to believe the army will spend 3 billion dollars on something that will not be connected to our infrastructure and rust in some bunker somewhere.

 

[cabatli_53]

That is the basis of my speculation that Turkey will build her own naval version of HQ-9 similar to Chinese HHQ-9.
The VLS will be simpler as no below deck flame diverting ramps will be needed.

I don't know HQ-9 naval variant to be developed or not but Turkey's domestic Low and Medium Altitude SAM missiles will have a naval variant to be integrated on Turkey's warships for close and mid altitude aerial protection.

and Naval CIWS as well

 

[Safriz]

Development of Genesis has not any connection with Raytheon. As I stated out that Havelsan has to cooperate Raytheon to upgrade foreign Perry clas frigates cause of integration of SAM system into Genesis network worldwide.

Genesis Perry with ESSM

i am saying the same thing in a different way..

 

[-SINAN-]

Murad Bayar, head of the Undersecretariat for the Defense Industry (SSM), recently told Today's Zaman that the necessary tests to have been conducted for each firm and that with the implementation of an interface, Chinese systems could be adapted to integrate with Turkish and NATO weapon systems.

Turkey sends message to West by choosing China for defense system - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news

 

[gr8vision]

It's not finalized yet, so everything is a speculation at this point.

Considering that Chinese HQ-9 are, of course, a rip-off of the S-300PT (it's most closely resembles the PT variant, but has elements of other S-300 models [cylinder, truck, radar] and even some minor resemblance to the Patriot - Chinese are trying to "improvise" by putting "best" technologies they steal together into one package).

HQ-9's brochure says it has 125km range (maybe Turkey will get a more advanced modification?), that is a far cry from 200km in S-300VM (Antey 2500) and greater of the latest variants of S-300. Maximum altitude engagement is 18km while Russia's is 30km. Antey 2500 has a capability to engage 2,500 km range IRBMs with re-entry velocities around 4.5 km/sec. It's range against aerial targets is 108 nautical miles, and increased terminal phase agility - a single shot kill probability of 98% is claimed against ballistic targets.

HQ-9 has no real capability for ABM while S-300 has successfully engaged SRBM and MRBMs. HQ-9 doesn't really compete with second generation S-300PMU1, much less third (PMU2 Favorite - which Azerbaijan got, 3 battalions) and fourth (S-400 Triumph). The level of performance China *claims* is about the same as 1970's Soviet/Russian missiles in several areas.

If Turkey wanted to save money, while getting the best strategic air defense in the world - they should get S-300VM (Antey) or ask for S-300 PMU-2 or even S-400 (which Russia will supply to China in 2017). It might not get the same "transfer of technologies", but at least we know there are no problems with integration of S-300 PMU-1 into NATO air defense - ask Greece.

 

[cabatli_53]

China's bid was the lowest, less than$3 billion, which almost certainly had an effect on the outcome. “China offers the cheaper bid with a co-production opportunity in defense systems, unlike the US and other NATO members,” said Atilla Sandıklı, president of the Wise Men Center for Strategic Studies (BİLGESAM).

Stating that other NATO members see Turkey as a potential market for weapons sales, Sandıklı said that Turkey's agreement with China to produce defense systems reflects Turkey's discomfort with NATO's approach to Turkey.

Sandıklı also mentioned that the US does not provide high technology products in defense systems and sells lower level weapons. “NATO does not provide the technology transfer opportunities in the production of defense systems that Turkey desires,” Sandıklı explained.

Turkey sends message to West by choosing China for defense system - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news

 

[-SINAN-]

It's not finalized yet, so everything is a speculation at this point.

Considering that Chinese HQ-9 are, of course, a rip-off of the S-300PT (it's most closely resembles the PT variant, but has elements of other S-300 models [cylinder, truck, radar] and even some minor resemblance to the Patriot - Chinese are trying to "improvise" by putting "best" technologies they steal together into one package).

HQ-9's brochure says it has 125km range (maybe Turkey will get a more advanced modification?), that is a far cry from 200km in S-300VM (Antey 2500) and greater of the latest variants of S-300. Maximum altitude engagement is 18km while Russia's is 30km. Antey 2500 has a capability to engage 2,500 km range IRBMs with re-entry velocities around 4.5 km/sec. It's range against aerial targets is 108 nautical miles, and increased terminal phase agility - a single shot kill probability of 98% is claimed against ballistic targets.

HQ-9 has no real capability for ABM while S-300 has successfully engaged SRBM and MRBMs. HQ-9 doesn't really compete with second generation S-300PMU1, much less third (PMU2 Favorite - which Azerbaijan got, 3 battalions) and fourth (S-400 Triumph). The level of performance China *claims* is about the same as 1970's Soviet/Russian missiles in several areas.

If Turkey wanted to save money, while getting the best strategic air defense in the world - they should get S-300VM (Antey) or ask for S-300 PMU-2 or even S-400 (which Russia will supply to China in 2017). It might not get the same "transfer of technologies", but at least we know there are no problems with integration of S-300 PMU-1 into NATO air defense - ask Greece.

Turkey want to get her hands on the ToT simple as that.

 

[mahatir]

Good decision by Turkey , it went for TOT transfer , you can not keep on buying expensive toys from west without any TOT .

 

[xxxKULxxx]

For full indigenous air defence family... If we add that $1 billion cost R&D to achievements from this deal (co-operation/ToT) and the achievements that we already have... What it makes ? Far better result then any of these 4 systems ?

 

[Beast]

It's not finalized yet, so everything is a speculation at this point.

Considering that Chinese HQ-9 are, of course, a rip-off of the S-300PT (it's most closely resembles the PT variant, but has elements of other S-300 models [cylinder, truck, radar] and even some minor resemblance to the Patriot - Chinese are trying to "improvise" by putting "best" technologies they steal together into one package).

HQ-9's brochure says it has 125km range (maybe Turkey will get a more advanced modification?), that is a far cry from 200km in S-300VM (Antey 2500) and greater of the latest variants of S-300. Maximum altitude engagement is 18km while Russia's is 30km. Antey 2500 has a capability to engage 2,500 km range IRBMs with re-entry velocities around 4.5 km/sec. It's range against aerial targets is 108 nautical miles, and increased terminal phase agility - a single shot kill probability of 98% is claimed against ballistic targets.

HQ-9 has no real capability for ABM while S-300 has successfully engaged SRBM and MRBMs. HQ-9 doesn't really compete with second generation S-300PMU1, much less third (PMU2 Favorite - which Azerbaijan got, 3 battalions) and fourth (S-400 Triumph). The level of performance China *claims* is about the same as 1970's Soviet/Russian missiles in several areas.

If Turkey wanted to save money, while getting the best strategic air defense in the world - they should get S-300VM (Antey) or ask for S-300 PMU-2 or even S-400 (which Russia will supply to China in 2017). It might not get the same "transfer of technologies", but at least we know there are no problems with integration of S-300 PMU-1 into NATO air defense - ask Greece.

So much of your stealing and talking about inferior Chinese missile and cheap price tag. Sorry to burst your bubble. HQ-9 is chosen becos both Patriot and S-300 are crap.

********.com - Turkey decides to buy 4B USD worth of Chinese HQ-9 missile systems

Turkey decides to buy 4B USD worth of Chinese HQ-9 missile systems
because HQ-9's hit all targets while Patriot and S-400 miss some in field tests.

Google translate

Turkish Defense Minister Yilmaz Thursday (26 May) announced that China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corporation, has won the Turkish manufacturing range air defense and missile defense system tender.

To participate in this project worth about $ 4 billion bid for air defense missile systems: American Patriot, Russian S-400, France, Italy, the European air defense missile's Samp-T, as well as China's FD-2000 (Sina Editor's note: the Chinese HQ-9 air defense missile export version).

The reason why the red flag 9 wins, mainly in the tender scene shooting live ammunition in all hit, while the Patriots and S300 are repeatedly off-target, fabled,