T-LORAMIDS Tender | Updates & Discussion

[-SINAN-]

Erdogan's numerous Ahmadinejad type speeches,gross breaches of democratic system with the political system interfearing with the justice one by sacking prosecutors,policemen who dared check goverment corrupt officials,gratuitous attacks against so called "western entities" meddling in Turkey (see Gezi protests) ?

I really don't favor Erdogan and you are right about the above incidents. But i don't wanna hear any European officials, thoughts about the interior affairs of Turkey. I believe most of the Turkish people agree on this with me.

EU can keep its opinion to itself, we don't give rats @ss.

 

[Armstrong]

I really don't favor Erdogan and you are right about the above incidents. But i don't wanna hear any European officials, thoughts about the interior affairs of Turkey. I believe most of the Turkish people agree on this with me.

EU can keep its opinion to itself, we don't give rats @ss.

If you say anything against Erdogan then @T-123456 or more appropriately his Nuts* would pay for that insolence !

* they're attached to a 250 V battery whose 'On' button I can press telepathically !

 

[usernameless]

Erdogan's numerous Ahmadinejad type speeches,gross breaches of democratic system with the political system interfearing with the justice one by sacking prosecutors,policemen who dared check goverment corrupt officials,gratuitous attacks against so called "western entities" meddling in Turkey (see Gezi protests) ?

I want to say this first; i see the misfortunates against the akp, Turkey and other politicians in Turkey suddenly rising. Grafts, international pressure, western militarily objections towards Turkey's progress, political killings, gezi protest started just recently. Why now before the elections? It's hard to believe that there is absolutely no other internal/external party that wants to create turmoil in Turkey due the recent developments.

Those prosecutors and policemen may well be affiliated with the Gulen movement (government may not specifically mention the Gulen movement as its target, but it sure seems so), after all the Gulen movement is known to have influential people in high positions, what are the chances some of those prosecutors or policemen are not one of those? Turkey's internal is a big mess and mystery, which needs a good cleaning in my opinion, a romanian probably only sees the surface without knowing the past and other internal matters of Turkey.
Just what makes me wonder is, what gives the guarentee that those new policemen and prosecutors are not affiliated with Gulen's movement?

Yeah, if some people speak out against the west, they get labeled 'muslim terrorist like that Ahmedinejad guy in Iran' while Turkey is far ahead of Iran in terms of democracy and rights (no offense for Iranian bros), we should just give up, put through the reforms that the EU wants (some of which conflict with our cultural values) and sing the tunes that the west want to hear from us, just so we can be a 2nd rated country for decades for them again. The Ukrainian president gave up. Win for the west again. Erdogan also should just go away, because he apparently has an anti-EU tone, happy now?

Bottom line for me is, i, personally, find it suspicious how Turkey is going through hard times just before the elctions again. This alone is enough for me to believe that the probability of someone messing up with akp, for whatever reason, though i believe that some people want akp to go down because of their apparent success, is more real than that these developments are mere coincidence.

 

[flamer84]

I want to say this first; i see the misfortunates against the akp, Turkey and other politicians in Turkey suddenly rising. Grafts, international pressure, western militarily objections towards Turkey's progress, political killings, gezi protest started just recently. Why now before the elections? It's hard to believe that there is absolutely no other internal/external party that wants to create turmoil in Turkey due the recent developments.

Those prosecutors and policemen may well be affiliated with the Gulen movement (government may not specifically mention the Gulen movement as its target, but it sure seems so), after all the Gulen movement is known to have influential people in high positions, what are the chances some of those prosecutors or policemen are not one of those? Turkey's internal is a big mess and mystery, which needs a good cleaning in my opinion, a romanian probably only sees the surface without knowing the past and other internal matters of Turkey.
Just what makes me wonder is, what gives the guarentee that those new policemen and prosecutors are not affiliated with Gulen's movement?

Yeah, if some people speak out against the west, they get labeled 'muslim terrorist like that Ahmedinejad guy in Iran' while Turkey is far ahead of Iran in terms of democracy and rights (no offense for Iranian bros), we should just give up, put through the reforms that the EU wants (some of which conflict with our cultural values) and sing the tunes that the west want to hear from us, just so we can be a 2nd rated country for decades for them again. The Ukrainian president gave up. Win for the west again. Erdogan also should just go away, because he apparently has an anti-EU tone, happy now?

Bottom line for me is, i, personally, find it suspicious how Turkey is going through hard times just before the elctions again. This alone is enough for me to believe that the probability of someone messing up with akp, for whatever reason, though i believe that some people want akp to go down because of their apparent success, is more real than that these developments are mere coincidence.

Well yes,i only see the surface,that's why i am here to discuss and know more.You're probably right that they try to keep Turkey down but they do it with everybody(including other EU members who stray from the official line) so i don't see it directed particularly at Turkey.

I am sry but in my opinion Turkey it's heading down on a non democratic path as for refusing military technical assistance to Turkey that is just not true.Sure,they want to keep some elements for themselves which to a point it's understandable but overall western partnership has the most influence in Turkey's military development ,beyond the participation of other entities.

@Sinan...Erdogan is using your mindset,creating the old "westerners are against us" rhetoric to deflect his own shortcomings and gather popular support for his theocracy.And it's working.

 

[-SINAN-]

.Erdogan is using your mindset,creating the old "westerners are against us" rhetoric to deflect his own shortcomings and gather popular support for his theocracy.And it's working.

Yes, it's working because we don't like interference from Europeans. We are very sensitive about this subject.

 

[T-123456]

If you say anything against Erdogan then @T-123456 or more appropriately his Nuts* would pay for that insolence !

* they're attached to a 250 V battery whose 'On' button I can press telepathically !

,you know Turkey is the biggest hazelNUTS producer in the world?

Yes, it's working because we don't like interference from Europeans. We are very sensitive about this subject.

We are becoming TOOOOOOOO independent on military equipment among other subjects..
That was not intended by ''Europe''when they(Germany)helped us in the begining.

 

[usernameless]

Well yes,i only see the surface,that's why i am here to discuss and know more.You're probably right that they try to keep Turkey down but they do it with everybody(including other EU members who stray from the official line) so i don't see it directed particularly at Turkey.

I am sry but in my opinion Turkey it's heading down on a non democratic path as for refusing military technical assistance to Turkey that is just not true.Sure,they want to keep some elements for themselves which to a point it's understandable but overall western partnership has the most influence in Turkey's military development ,beyond the participation of other entities.

@Sinan...Erdogan is using your mindset,creating the old "westerners are against us" rhetoric to deflect his own shortcomings and gather popular support for his theocracy.And it's working.

Well, which democratic reforms is Erdogan cancelling? Each party that comes to power in Turkey comes with its own set of reforms. To me it seems the past parties didnt create much fuss in the west because they basically did what the west want, while the majority of the Turks were actually uneasy about the chp, which gave the rise to the akp, still after 3 elections. The majority in Turkey probably feels happy now while the minorities, including the chp, are now on the receiving end. It's just that when the akp, representing the majority, does reforms it's seen as thorns in the eyes of the west, while reforms of the past by chp crushed the majority, that forms now the akp, but allowed them to maintain a 'positive' image in the west. That's how i see it.

And i agree with you that Erdogan creates uses 'the meddling westerners' as a weapon to create an 'enemy', but tell me, don't the EU and Usa also do this through creating a mainly negative violent image of muslims and muslim countries? Now suddenly Turkey has become a non-democratical (dictatorial) countrly like Iran? If you think so, please kindly ellaborate in what way Turkey has become so? Which reforms? Which rights have been taken away?

 

[xenon54 out]

Yes, it's working because we don't like interference from Europeans. We are very sensitive about this subject.

Well, sinan if Erdogan says he wants to enter EU then he cant say ''EU shouldnt meddle in internal issues'' because with the neogations EU has every right to say its opinion.

 

[Bismarck]

I think Turkey needs some key techs only, to boost his own system to an higher level. (Long range radar, fuel, engine for high speed- Mach 3-4 or above etc). They don't need the full Chinese system. With this key tech, they can develop his own, NATO compatible system.

 

[T-123456]

I think Turkey needs some key techs only, to boost his own system to an higher level. (Long range radar, fuel, engine for high speed- Mach 3-4 or above etc). They don't need the full Chinese system. With this key tech, they can develop his own, NATO compatible system.

That is the ultimate goal of evry project Turkey enters in with other experienced countries.

Well, sinan if Erdogan says he wants to enter EU then he cant say ''EU shouldnt meddle in internal issues'' because with the neogations EU has every right to say its opinion.

Which negotiations do you mean?

 

[flamer84]

And i agree with you that Erdogan creates uses 'the meddling westerners' as a weapon to create an 'enemy', but tell me, don't the EU and Usa also do this through creating a mainly negative violent image of muslims and muslim countries? Now suddenly Turkey has become a non-democratical (dictatorial) countrly like Iran? If you think so, please kindly ellaborate in what way Turkey has become so? Which reforms? Which rights have been taken away?

No,Turkey is far from Iran as of now but it's heading towards dictatorship.

Man,sacking police officers .prosecutors who handled the corruption cases is a gross violation of power separation within a democratic state.

Who will ever dare to question Erdogan and comp. in the future if they know they face a quick sacking ? Not mentioning that his clique is in all key posts:army,judges,police,prosecutors.This is how an entire state gets owned by a few individuals.

I know that many of you don't like "western meddling" but this is just empty "Turkey Strongg!!" rhetoric.Look at the last few days,the EU is pressuring David Cameron not to change laws affecting EU immigrants warning of reprisals if he does so.This is the norm,the EU is a club with certain rules,they see strict laws for democracy (now we can debate if some of this rules/laws are just or can function for everybody) and they will insist on these rules to their partners.Turkey is a partner of the EU if not a future member.Turks are a big community in Europe,sure, there are cases of anti turkism but that is not the norm and you know it.

,you know Turkey is the biggest hazelNUTS producer in the world?


We are becoming TOOOOOOOO independent on military equipment among other subjects..
That was not intended by ''Europe''when they(Germany)helped us in the begining.

And yet,german firms still work with Turkey as of now,see the submarine project.

 

[-SINAN-]

Well, sinan if Erdogan says he wants to enter EU then he cant say ''EU shouldnt meddle in internal issues'' because with the neogations EU has every right to say its opinion.

You right, but look it up from this point of view;

French president says "France will go to referandum for Turkey's membership, if our people vote you down, you can't be a member"

And we know that french people's support for Turkey's membership is %15.

He is literally saying you can't enter the union, while they are setting this double standart for only Turkey, they have face to meddle into Turkey's internal matters.....

My personal view is just showing them the finger, and ending the negotions, they can have their "you know what club" to themselves. We had enough humiliation.

 

[T-123456]

No,Turkey is far from Iran as of now but it's heading towards dictatorship.

Man,sacking police officers .prosecutors who handled the corruption cases is a gross violation of power separation within a democratic state.

Who will ever dare to question Erdogan and comp. in the future if they know they face a quick sacking ? Not mentioning that his clique is in all key posts:army,judges,police,prosecutors.This is how an entire state gets owned by a few individuals.

I know that many of you don't like "western meddling" but this is just empty "Turkey Strongg!!" rhetoric.Look at the last few days,the EU is pressuring David Cameron not to change laws affecting EU immigrants warning of reprisals if he does so.This is the norm,the EU is a club with certain rules,they see strict laws for democracy (now we can debate if some of this rules/laws are just or can function for everybody) and they will insist on these rules to their partners.Turkey is a partner of the EU if not a future member.Turks are a big community in Europe,sure, there are cases of anti turkism but that is not the norm and you know it.



And yet,german firms still work with Turkey as of now,see the submarine project.

This is the last submarine project we share with them,the next gen will be indigenous.
Btw,without EU interference many Turks are aware of what Erdogan is doing and planning to do in the future.
It backfired so he is more carefull now,we covered the subject during the Gezi protests remember?

 

[xenon54 out]

Which negotiations(duzelt) do you mean?

The negotiations with EU about a Membership ofcourse.

 

[flamer84]

This is the last submarine project we share with them,the next gen will be indigenous.
Btw,without EU interference many Turks are aware of what Erdogan is doing and planning to do in the future.
It backfired so he is more carefull now,we covered the subject during the Gezi protests remember?

Yes,i know we've talked about that and believe i know that many turks are aware of Erdogan's intentions,i see it here,i see it in other forums,i see it when discussing with my turkish friends.

And congratulations on the next submarine,but don't forget that Germany helped you in getting technology.