T-LORAMIDS Tender | Updates & Discussion

[hacksquat]

Sorry, I can't read Turkish. But, never heard about the version HQ-10. Is this the naval variant?

HongQi-10 (HQ-10) | Missile ThreatMissile Threat

 

[TheCommander]

‘Turkey shouldn’t be criticized over choice of Chinese system’

Turkey's decision to select a Chinese missile system for its long-term, long-range missile and aerial defense program, code-named T-Loramids -- a move that has angered the US -- is considered a right step by Chinese experts, who agree that Ankara has the right to choose any country's defense system and that other countries should respect its decision and not put pressure on Turkey.

“As an independent country, Turkey has the right to buy military equipment, and other countries and international organizations should respect and show their understanding towards this point. And they should not put pressure on Turkey about this,” Wang Nan, a Chinese expert on the Middle East, told Today's Zaman.

The Turkish Defense Industry Implementation Committee (SSİK) announced the decision that the contract to co-produce a long-range air and missile defense system worth $4 billion would be awarded to the Chinese firm China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp (CPMIEC) in a statement recently, rejecting rival bids from Russian, US and European firms.

The main competitors for the tender were the Patriot missile long-range air defense system, produced by US partners Raytheon and Lockheed Martin; Russia's Rosoboronexport with its S-400 system; China's HQ9, exported as the FD-2000; and the Italian-French Eurosam and its SAMP/T Aster 30.

CPMIEC was sanctioned by the United States in February for violations of the Iran, North Korea and Syria Nonproliferation Act.

Turkey's decision did not only dominate the agenda of the international community but also made the headlines of the Chinese media. The Chinese media particularly debated Western criticism of Turkey's selection of a Chinese firm. Chinese state broadcaster CCTV noted that US President Barack Obama in order to show his uneasiness over Ankara's decision called Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan twice.

Washington said it had expressed serious concerns to Turkey over its decision to co-produce a long-range air and missile defense system with a Chinese firm under US sanctions.

China's bid was the lowest, less than $3 billion. Deputy Prime Minister Bülent Arınç added that the main reason why Turkey had chosen the Chinese bidder was because it offered the lowest price and because they had reached an agreement to co-produce the missile systems in Turkey.

“China is a country which focuses on innovation and inventions. Some Chinese techniques have caught up with those of the West and Russia or even reached the top position in the world. Besides this, the prices of Chinese equipment are very competitive, which is one of the reasons that most countries prefer to purchase from China,” said Wang.

Chinese media also considered the decision an important one, as China will be selling missile system to a NATO country for the first time.

With the contract, Turkey will be getting four systems of the FD-2000 missile defense system from the Chinese company.

“Turkey buying military equipment from China meets the needs of its own in the following two ways: Firstly, it provides a chance for Turkey to purchase the equipment. Secondly, it gives the chance to Turkey to learn about the related techniques about researching and producing this equipment,” added Wang.

Wang also maintained that the criticism of the Chinese system not being compatible with the NATO system was a technical problem “which the experts of the two countries have the capacities to deal with.”
Turkish-Chinese cooperation not to damage profit of any country

In an effort to appease the negative reactions from its NATO allies, Turkish officials have underlined that the choice announced was not final, but with the Chinese firm having taken first place on the shortlist of the tender, the negotiations for a final contract would be launched with it first.

“It is reported that the Turkish government has not decided finally on this. Most Chinese people agree that this is the inner policy of Turkey, and the Chinese government will respect the decision of Turkey. And the other countries and international organizations should not put pressure on Turkey about this,” said Wang.

According to Wang, to buy anti-aircraft missile from China was just one of the cooperation programs between the two countries, which will develop cooperation and the friendly relationship between the two countries.

“It will not threaten and damage the profits of the third countries. As Chinese spokesman Hong Lei said, it will not damage the safety, stability and peace of the related regions and countries,” said Wang, adding that most Chinese people were very positive about the cooperation.

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-328...criticized-over-choice-of-chinese-system.html
@bismark

I do not know the capability and specifications of HQ-10, I just read it from our newspaper.

 

[Saithan]

It's probably a typo like some pointed out, it's not uncommon these days that newspapers make spelling errors. They probably have kids typing the stuff to save cost.

I hope everyone has noticed that the news of HQ-9 didn't last more than one week in the newspapers. only in turkey and probably in china, so I think it's sign of how little it means on the stage.

 

[Saithan]

self delete.

 

[Saithan]

NATO Chief Rasmussen voices concern about Turkey's Chinese missile deal

The head of NATO expressed concern on Monday over Turkey's decision to co-produce a missile defence system with a Chinese firm, saying he expected Ankara to choose a system that was compatible with those of other allies.

Turkey has said it is likely to sign a $3.4 billion missile defence deal with a Chinese firm that is subject to US sanctions, although its decision is not yet final.

The United States has expressed serious concerns to Turkey, saying the Chinese missile defence system would not work with NATO systems.

NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said choosing a defence system was a national decision.

"What is important for us is that the system acquired by the individual country ... must be able to work and operate with the systems in other countries. I expect that Turkey will also comply with that," the former Danish prime minister told Reuters, speaking in Danish.

"I of course expect that each allied nation makes sure of this. It comes with being a NATO member," Rasmussen said, speaking on the sidelines of a conference in Copenhagen.

Rasmussen said he understood Turkey had not yet made a final decision and was still in talks on the new defence system.

Turkey's Defence Ministry said last month it favoured China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp's (CPMIEC) FD-2000 missile defence system over more expensive rival systems from Russian, US and European firms.

The United States announced sanctions on CPMIEC in February for violations of the Iran, North Korea and Syria Nonproliferation Act.

NATO diplomats say buying a system that did not work with NATO systems would hamper the ability of NATO allies to work together, undermining a principle of the 28-nation alliance.
Cyber concerns

Some NATO diplomats said integrating a Chinese system into NATO's defences would raise cyber-security concerns and issues about NATO swapping technical data with a Chinese firm.

Turkey sees a growing threat of spillover from the war in neighbouring Syria, as well as wider turbulence in the Middle East, and has been scrambling to bolster its air defences.

Turkey has said the selection was not politically motivated, and that the Chinese offer met Turkey's main demands of price and the ability to place much of the production in Turkey.

For China, the deal would be a breakthrough in its bid to become a supplier of advanced weapons.

Some Western defence analysts have said they were surprised by Turkey's decision, having expected the contract to go to Raytheon Co, a US company that builds the Patriot missile, or the Franco-Italian Eurosam SAMP/T.

The United States, Germany and the Netherlands each sent two Patriot batteries to southeastern Turkey this year after Ankara asked NATO to strengthen its defences against possible missile attack from Syria.

source:NATO Chief Rasmussen voices concern about Turkey's Chinese missile deal - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news

 

[Saithan]

I find it very interesting that NATO secretary knows it's a national acquisition, but insists it should be a system compatible with NATO. Why ? Is it because Turkey has to spend a fortune on weapons and missiles so NATO can make use of them when needed ?

I think the reasoning and argument is pathetic. If Turkey is ever going to grow independent from NATO (same as not being dependent) then we'll need stand alone systems.

And his ******* comment about NATO countries complying with buying from compatible systems is bullcrap, I'm pretty sure Greece has Russian S300, but this is another example of the West saying, "you are not allowed" and then do it themselves.

"you are not allowed to trade with asia, it's bad for your democracy", but they're very good at trading themselves!

 

[Kartal]

Greek S-300 missiles may be not a good example. Greek never bought them South Cyprus did. And we said if it deploys in Cyprus we would hit. Then missiles sold to greece.

 

[-SINAN-]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh, hot news!!

FNOTW: Turkey

And how this article related to HQ-9 ?

Please look at these threads and post in according to.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/280659-turkish-politics-national-issues-news-discussions.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/280657-turkish-foreign-affairs-news-discussions.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/280662-turkish-history-news-discussions.html

 

[Surenas]

Fake Chinese goods?

Turkey’s decision to purchase the High Altitude Air Defense Systems from China was last week’s bombshell story. Not surprisingly, the United States and NATO went up in arms. How could we ever dare to choose a company that was blacklisted in the U.S.? Or a system that would not be operable with NATO’s defenses? Was that all there was too it? Or was there something else that frustrated Washington? The answer is coming up shortly.

But first, a brief introduction to Sino-Turkish cooperation in the field of defense: This is not the first time Turkey and China have cooperated on military issues. The missiles that the army showcases at every Aug. 30 Victory Day ceremony are short-range land-to-land missile systems that are co-produced with the Chinese and with the technology they have provided. Currently, the missile development programs are also being carried out together. Within the last decade, Turkey and China have come to a point of even having joint military exercises. So? If the U.S. is mad at our cooperation with the Chinese, they could have said something a long time ago. Then why the brouhaha now?

Those who follow defense issues can easily recall how the U.S. had reacted to the possible sale of S-300 missiles to Iran by Russia. It did not reach a point of crisis, and who knows what happened behind the scenes, but somehow the U.S. convinced the Russians to give up on that tender. A similar incident took place recently on Syria, when Israel and the U.S. reacted very seriously to the possible sale of S-300s to Damascus, claiming that if delivered, the systems would be a legitimate target.

But then again, why were they treating the High Altitude Air Defense capabilities as “Weapons of Mass Destruction?”

The answer lies in the technical details of the system. These systems are basically land-to-air systems that could be used against cruise missiles, ballistic missiles and any flying vehicle. Their power lies in the multiplier effect on the defense capabilities by creating a protective shield. Such a system carries the country to the Champions League of military defense. A nation’s combat power does not solely rely on attack weapons, but also systems like these to deter adversaries.

Interoperability is also a side issue on this debate. Former Soviet Union countries had similar systems that were used without any need for integration. Warning systems are integrated, but defense shields can easily be independent.

So now the million-dollar question: Why such anger? The answer is the strategic choice Turkey is making by purchasing the system. You would not buy such a sophisticated system from an enemy.
Such a technology transfer would enable Turkey to create its own IFF (identify friend or foe) System. It reminds your once-friendly neighbor that after many years, one day you may start locking your door again.

The second reason would be the seller’s status as one of the U.S.’ main competitors in the world arena. The third reason is about Turkey’s immediate access to the energy fields that the U.S. does not want to share very much.

If the U.S. is so worried about Turkey’s purchase of Chinese systems, maybe it should do something about it, like ratifying the Free Trade Agreement that was within the parameters of the Strategic Framework Agreement. Pretending to do so is hardly enough.

And as we are not going to buy missiles like fake Gucci bags from China, the systems are just fine.

Mete Yarar is a former major in the Turkish Special Forces. He comments and blogs about defense and regional crisis issues.

CONTRIBUTOR - Fake Chinese goods?

 

[Worf]

I really cant wait for the first deliveries. What I cant wait even more is a nationalised version.

 

[Saithan]

Fake Chinese goods?



CONTRIBUTOR - Fake Chinese goods?

I really enjoyed reading this piece. On a side note wouldn't Turkey have been able to get the same technology from Pakistan. But perhaps the reason the Chinese were chosen was to improve cooperation and relations. Since Turkey and Pakistan practically are twins

 

[itaskol]

HongQi-10 (HQ-10) | Missile ThreatMissile Threat

this is wrong. HQ 10 is based on sea ram.

 

[atatwolf]

I'm a total newbie on this subject. If Turkey buys this tech and upgrades it, what features will be added?

 

[Saithan]

I'm a total newbie on this subject. If Turkey buys this tech and upgrades it, what features will be added?

I think our focus would be to buy it, and have a "standard" stand-alone-system placed at strategic points and after the ToT we'd be working on improving and such. I think it might be too early to say anything about how it could be improved. Range + accuracy and perhaps even work on an "iron dome" like Israel has.

 

[atatwolf]

I think our focus would be to buy it, and have a "standard" stand-alone-system placed at strategic points and after the ToT we'd be working on improving and such. I think it might be too early to say anything about how it could be improved. Range + accuracy and perhaps even work on an "iron dome" like Israel has.

I get the feeling that Turkey is buying standalone in case NATO turns on us.