T-50 Fighter To Feature Higher Stealth Capabilities

[shiv]

t50 has been built taking care of f22 in minds.. no wonder after the j20 debacle chinese people had to come up with j31

 

[My-Analogous]

India get the first chance to buy the plane as it contributed money. So India to PAKFA is equivalent to a level 1 partner in the F-35 program. Nothing more.



Hopefully, you can convince your fellow Indian members not to put their hopes up for full tech transfer of Rafale. If India hold out on try to get full tech transfer, it will be the biggest loser as it will not get the plane and technology.



your countryman Gessler agree with him on the next post.

Honestly i think one thing very wired about Indians they think that whatever they have it is the best in te world, even better then the country manufacture that. Example MKI they stated that better then Russian planes and in the history of arms sales it is happened only once and that is UAE F-16 and US don't have better plane then that class on that time but they have F-22 far superior to F-16 in their arsenal.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Honestly i think one thing very wired about Indians they think that whatever they have it is the best in te world, even better then the country manufacture that. Example MKI they stated that better then Russian planes and in the history of arms sales it is happened only once and that is UAE F-16 and US don't have better plane then that class on that time but they have F-22 far superior to F-16 in their arsenal.

how failed you are... there was a briefing about MKI specifically done after Red Flag as it was a trend setter for Russians.. Russians did follow our path and did improvements for 35

 

[UKBengali]

India get the first chance to buy the plane as it contributed money. So India to PAKFA is equivalent to a level 1 partner in the F-35 program. Nothing more.

Yes. India could have got a similar plane at the same time without paying 5 billion or so in development costs. Russia is a willing seller.

The most that India would be allowed on the FGFA, Indian specific version, is the composite airframe and some avionics but all this is Indian technology anyway. No technology transfer from the Russians at all.

India would have been better off in developing their own technology demonstrator and that would have cost the same but propelled the Indian aerospace industry much further.

 

[faithfulguy]

Yes. India could have got a similar plane at the same time without paying 5 billion or so in development costs. Russia is a willing seller.

The most that India would be allowed on the FGFA, Indian specific version, is the composite airframe and some avionics but all this is Indian technology anyway. No technology transfer from the Russians at all.

India would have been better off in developing their own technology demonstrator and that would have cost the same but propelled the Indian aerospace industry much further.

If India is struggling in system integration of a jet fighter in LCA, India would not be able to come close to build its own 5th generation fighter for decades. In another word, without Russian help, India is looking at building AMCA in 2050-2060 time frame. By then, this fighter would be obsolete, just like LCA base version is obsolete at IOC.

The truth is that India does not have the ability and so they need help and they know it. All the bragging from India back up this fact.

The country you have to watch out for is the one that let the action do all the talking. A bragging country like India shows that it need to talk more to make up for its own short comings in substance.

 

[Gessler]

Hopefully, you can convince your fellow Indian members not to put their hopes up for full tech transfer of Rafale. If India hold out on try to get full tech transfer, it will be the biggest loser as it will not get the plane and technology.

It is possible to get 100% tech transfer, even core technologies.

But only if you buy out the whole IPRs. Then you will be given all the tech straight from blueprints to
actual production-engineering knowledge.

--

There are various types of tech transfer. I will give some prime examples involving India -

1) Production-oriented : The objective of this type of ToT is to manufacture a said product in a customer
country, with the aim of reducing cost of procurement - which would otherwise be higher due to
import, transportation etc. This is usually done when the products are ordered in large numbers, otherwise
licensed production of this type won't make sense.

It also makes it easier for the customer country to increase the number of orders from time
to time according to requirement or financial situation.

E.g. - Su-30MKI

2) Production-engineering oriented : This is to fulfill all that is done in the type of ToT mentioned above,
plus, it is aimed at business development. Contractual benefits, re-investment and includes a
much broader level of actual tech transfer than type 1 ToT.

In order to fulfill this type of ToT, a lot of Indian companies engage with their foreign counterparts in
order to obtain JVs for carrying forward production of the existing product and conduct joint research
to develop the product further, according to any criteria IAF asks them to fulfill/improve upon. Whatever
new development is needed after purchase, the two companies involved in a JV will try to fulfill it
together.

What this means is the production-engineering knowledge of various fields, ranging from metallurgy
to production of sophisticated equipment like IRST, radar or HMDS, Such as, the Front sector
optroniques (FSO), wings, HMDS etc. of Rafale are to be produced by various companies like
Reliance, SAMTEL etc. In order for them to produce this equipment on a factory scale, they need
production-engineering knowledge, in order to put this knowledge into practice they need
infrastructure of the kind which can build this equipment.

These resources are provided by the contract JVs. In order to make production of these
sophisticated equipment you need a bigger amount of ToT than before, this is what
MMRCA contract negotiations deal with.

E.g. - Rafale MMRCA

3) Intellectual-property rights : IPRs. The blueprints on which everything is built upon. When you
take part in the development of a product straight from beginning, when development of the
product is not possible without your money or requirement, you get to obtain the IPRs which
will allow you to modify your design at will, or provide you with the bolts you need to hammer your
own project into shape at critical points elsewhere.

Joint development of the FGFA a.k.a PMF gives us these IPRs. This type 3 is best
called joint tech development rather than tech transfer.

E.g. - FGFA

4) Buying out : Same as obtaining IPRs by being an equal product development partner. The
difference is that in buying out IPRs, you are not a part of the development process, but merely
buying out all the data you need to re-name and re-engineer a foreign product at will to pass
off as an indigenous product - which it actually becomes, because the IPRs rest with you.

E.g. - Rohini/TRS-17 radar system

The truth is that India does not have the ability and so they need help and they know it.

Who doesn't need help to get the basics right?

 

[My-Analogous]

how failed you are... there was a briefing about MKI specifically done after Red Flag as it was a trend setter for Russians.. Russians did follow our path and did improvements for 35

Be real mate and tell me if someone want Indian weapon can you guys give them the best one or the second best?

 

[Gessler]

Be real mate and tell me if someone want Indian weapon can you guys give them the best one or the second best?

Not all countries can buy the best one or the second best.

 

[My-Analogous]

Not all countries can buy the best one or the second best.

Then go to US and asked F22 for you guys.They didn't even give to Japan and as far as i know Japan don't have financial issues

 

[banvanaxl]

WS-15(J-20) and WS-13A(J-31) are in development and should be ready towards the latter part of the decade.
Both AL-31 and RD-93 are wholly unsuitable to power the Chinese 5th generation fighters.
India has just been had by investing 5 billion in a non-stealthy fighter's R&D and also committing 20-25 billion more in buying them.

You copy paste the plane but can't make the engines fit ?????? So much for your beloved chinese's much flaunted industrial acumen.

India has just been had by investing 5 billion in a non-stealthy fighter's R&D and also committing 20-25 billion more in buying them.

J-31 is VLO and is likely to come in at around 100 times less RCS than PAK-FA,

Do you actually read, absorb, ruminate on what you have read and then write or just post the first self serving india bashing comment that comes to your mind ?
Can you give me a reference for your "100 times low" thingy comment ? Are you sure its not 99 time or 101 times ?

Mate this is not the correct forum for rants and raves. Most of the folks out here actually know shit and prefer accurate verified information.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Be real mate and tell me if someone want Indian weapon can you guys give them the best one or the second best?

The simplest answer is MKI is like JF17... we have put the best driven by our own softwares..

 

[banvanaxl]

If India is struggling in system integration of a jet fighter in LCA, India would not be able to come close to build its own 5th generation fighter for decades. In another word, without Russian help, India is looking at building AMCA in 2050-2060 time frame. By then, this fighter would be obsolete, just like LCA base version is obsolete at IOC.
The truth is that India does not have the ability and so they need help and they know it. All the bragging from India back up this fact.
The country you have to watch out for is the one that let the action do all the talking. A bragging country like India shows that it need to talk more to make up for its own short comings in substance.

Which feature in the LCA is obsolete ? Don't be a typical chinese fan boy and spew crap out just because you have a burning itch to scratch. Back it up with referenced facts and figures on weapons, modules etc which are obsolete on the LCA or stfu.

 

[UKBengali]

You copy paste the plane but can't make the engines fit ?????? So much for your beloved chinese's much flaunted industrial acumen.




Do you actually read, absorb, ruminate on what you have read and then write or just post the first self serving india bashing comment that comes to your mind ?
Can you give me a reference for your "100 times low" thingy comment ? Are you sure its not 99 time or 101 times ?

Mate this is not the correct forum for rants and raves. Most of the folks out here actually know shit and prefer accurate verified information.

That is the around the difference between a VLO aircraft(J-31) and one that is LO(PAK-FA).

The actual figure is not that important as much as the order of magnitude difference.

I can see that Indians are clearly worried about what they have gotten themselves into - Russia is NOT the old Soviet Union.

 

[kingdurgaking]

That is the around the difference between a VLO aircraft(J-31) and one that is LO(PAK-FA).

The actual figure is not that important as much as the order of magnitude difference.

I can see that Indians are clearly worried about what they have gotten themselves into - Russia is NOT the old Soviet Union.

We are not worried.. What ever we can develop with Russia we will use it.. if it is not the best it is fine.. If you think PAK-FA is not VLO it better not be... other wise you would have to die of heart attack

 

[faithfulguy]

Which feature in the LCA is obsolete ? Don't be a typical chinese fan boy and spew crap out just because you have a burning itch to scratch. Back it up with referenced facts and figures on weapons, modules etc which are obsolete on the LCA or stfu.

I actually already write a response. But for some reason, it didn't show up.

In any case, I was not saying LCA is obsolete as a fighting system, but its design is like that of Mirage 2000, which is an 80s obsolete design. LCA design had assistance of French designer, so they made some modification of Mirage 2000. It was meant as a fighter to come out in the 90s, but it took more years for LCA to make its first flight. Its 2014 now and LCA would have been a more advanced fighter in the 1990s than today.