T-50 Fighter To Feature Higher Stealth Capabilities

[HariPrasad]

Remember that not every plane is LCA

Ofcourse. Certainly Chinese planes are not. They are copy of something.

 

[kurup]

looks like a mock up!

Nope , they have already flown .

 

[Gessler]

Nope , they have already flown .

J-31 is like the JF-17 of the next generation. It is for smaller low-budget countries to have a pretend
"stealth fighter" of their own. It is just like JF-17, it offers a 4th gen platform at cheap price for countries
who may not be able to afford anything else, but trying to put it on a par with top-of-the-line 4th/4+ gen
jets like Rafale, Eurofighter or Su-35 is utter baloney.

Same for J-31. It may be a somewhat stealth fighter but it ain't comparable to PAK-FA or F-22/35, not even J-20.

 

[IND151]

From same article.

RT-Khimkompozit made the canopy and paneling. The T-50 is the first Russian combat aircraft made from a high proportion of composite materials, making up 25% of the mass of the aircraft and covering 70% of its surface.

The United Engine Corporation is designing the propulsion system for the fighter jet. The work for the fifth-generation engine is taking place at the company “Engines for Combat Aircraft.” The T-50 prototype is already testing the first-phase AL-41F1 engines, a turbofan engine with afterburner and thrust vector control. With this engine the aircraft is capable of supersonic speeds without afterburner effects.

Aviation Equipment, another Rostec holding, developed a unique aviation system for the T-50, including a new power supply system that is two times more powerful than any of its Russian peers.

T-50 Fighter To Feature Higher Stealth Capabilities

 

[Genesis]

J-31 is like the JF-17 of the next generation. It is for smaller low-budget countries to have a pretend
"stealth fighter" of their own. It is just like JF-17, it offers a 4th gen platform at cheap price for countries
who may not be able to afford anything else, but trying to put it on a par with top-of-the-line 4th/4+ gen
jets like Rafale, Eurofighter or Su-35 is utter baloney.

Same for J-31. It may be a somewhat stealth fighter but it ain't comparable to PAK-FA or F-22/35, not even J-20.

How can you know that? Nobody knows anything about these fighters.

J-20, J31, heck even the J-11s, and the J-10s are not 100% definite in their specs. The is like speculating on 6th gen Chinese fighters.

We don't know anything about these fighters.

 

[IND151]

The difference between PAK-FA and J-31 is pretty much like that between F-15 and F-16.

PAK-FA radar with GaN technology (5x times more power than normal AESA T/R modules), large aperture
and beamsteering agility will outstrip even F-22 radar. It easily offsets J-31's shaping. And you seem to forget
PAK-FA has L-band AESA radars on the wings which are way more effective at detecting stealthy targets
at long range than any X-band radar - although they have lesser resolution. Also there are side-facing radars.

Add to that PAK-FA's EODAS-like IRST apertures, interferometry-based passive tracking capability,
give it 100% passive operation capability when needed. Meaning, it can detect, track & possibly kill
you without even using radar. Stealth isn't just about RCS, it's about IR stealth and electromagnetic
stealth as well.

PAK-FA can carry 8 missiles in internal bays, J-31 carries only 50% that much, 4 missiles.

In terms of performance, J-31 is a dwarf compared to PAK-FA.

PAK-FA will get the Saturn Product-30 turbofans which are extremely powerful at 176 kN each, have
a very high T/W ratio and are Variable Cycle Engines (VCE). They have potential to become the most
advanced jet engines on any fighter aircraft in the forseeable future.

PAK-FA will even have F22-like shaped nozzles to reduce IR signature.

J-31 having 100 times lesser RCS than PAK-FA is not realistically possible. Shaping is important, but
only part of the game. Have you seen YF-23 Black Widow? It was actually more stealthy than
YF-22, despite it's top portion, air ducts, and engine fan blades being visible.

That tells you a lot about PAK-FA logic.

Just one sentence: The Russians are building PAK-FA to take out F-22 and F-35. Shenyang J-31 is
not a match.

I know that Russians tested flat nozzles on Su-27.

This is what they observed.

From Victor Mikhailovich Chepkin himself, Director General/Designer General of Lyulka-Saturn. From 1998.

"In the late 1980s, we were engaged in the development of the flat nozzle too and conducted a thorough research. The Ufa-based Motor Scientific Production Enterprise under the guidance of Chief Designer Alexei A. Ryzhov manufactured an experimental flat nozzle that underwent a series of tests. The conclusions were as follows. Presently, the flat nozzle has two inherent snags which, in principle, have not been dealt with yet. Firstly, the turbine is round but the nozzle is flat with a distance between them being small. The distance cannot be increased because this would lead to an increase in the overall length of the aircraft, a loss of thrust, etc. While transforming the circular gas stream into the flat one, the nozzle, developed by Mr. Ryzhov, was losing 14-17% of thrust. Unfortunately, the gas stream cannot be "bent" as we would like it to. It has its own laws too. So far, no one has managed to transform the circular gas stream into the flat one without losing thrust. The very same snag was hit by the Americans in developing their F-117 featuring a non-afterburning engine. Such engines lose approximately 15% of thrust too. However, the F-117 is a specialised Stealth aircraft with the main requirement of ensuring "invisibility". It does not need a real good thrust/weight ratio. That is why the Americans put up deliberately with an unavoidable loss of thrust but benefited from reduced signatures.

Secondly, the other primary problem is weight. The circular TVC nozzle produces only tensile stress while the flat one exerts bending stress as well. Those stresses require special measures to be taken to ensure the nozzle strength in order to avoid deformation of the nozzle. Those measures mean additional weight. The flat nozzle made of metal is heavier than the circular one by approximately half a tonne. Mind you, the whole AL-31FP fitted with its circular swivel nozzle weighs a little bit more than 1500 kg only. So, the use of a flat nozzle implies an extra tonne at the rear of a plane (two-engine are meant here, which make up the most of modern fighters). The problem can be circumvented through the use of the "carbon-carbon" materials which have low specific weight and can stand high temperature. But they burn in the end anyway, since they are based on the very same coal. Nobody has solved the problem of preventing carbon-carbon units from burning during their operation as part of an aircraft engine. Currently, such materials covered by a thick layer of fire-resistant ceramics are used only in manufacturing the control surfaces of rocket engines. The latter are actually disposable since their operation never exceeds 40-50 seconds while an aircraft engine service life amounts to 1,000 hours or more.

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...vyHZFDold8kuUW77v1NZbOA&bvm=bv.59568121,d.bmk

 

[Speeder 2]

translation:

India, another $2 billion R&D Fee please, to my Bank of Moscow account.

 

[UKBengali]

translation:

India, another $2 billion R&D Fee please, to my Bank of Moscow account.

India has just been swindled by the Russians for 5 billion dollars to develop a Russian fighter that will only increase Russian aerospace capabilities.

India will not be allowed into the secrets of either the engine or the radar.

Better to have just brought the developed fighter as any new customer.

 

[Gessler]

India has just been swindled by the Russians for 5 billion dollars to develop a Russian fighter that will only increase Russian aerospace capabilities.

India will not be allowed into the secrets of either the engine or the radar.

Better to have just brought the developed fighter as any new customer.

We will get exactly what we pay for.

 

[Speeder 2]

India will not be allowed into the secrets of either the engine or the radar.
.

There are sth that are non-transferable no matter how much you pay.

The design and production of high tech engines and radars for instance are some of the symbols of being a industrial superpower.

let alone T-50, even Rafale doesn't transfer those.

Transfer the core tech of engines or radars = transfer the entire domestic high tech knowhow and production technologies = bankrapcy of the bulk of defence industries (and related high tech civilian indutries) of Russia and France.

How much does India think that those industries cost? $ 2 billion or 20 billion Rupees?

 

[UKBengali]

There are sth that are non-transferable no matter how much you pay.

The design and production of high tech engines and radars for instance are some of the symbols of being a industrial superpower.

let alone T-50, even Rafale doesn't transfer those.

Transfer the core tech of engines or radars = transfer the entire domestic high tech knowhow and production technologies = bankrapcy of the bulk of defence industries (and related high tech civilian indutries) of Russia and France.

How much does India think that those industries cost? $ 2 billion or 20 billion Rupees?

I think that the Indians are a little naive.

They were promised "technology transfer" by Russians, French and the Jews and naively thought this meant the secrets of the radars, seekers, airframe composites and the engines. What they did not realise is that all this meant was the production of the lower-tech components and assembling the final components in the end..

To this day, very naive Indians think that Russia has transferred the full technology to produce the SU-30MKI. If this was the case then India would have been easily able to design and produce the whole of the lower-tech LCA and not have to rely on imported engines and radars.

 

[kurup]

India has just been swindled by the Russians for 5 billion dollars to develop a Russian fighter that will only increase Russian aerospace capabilities.

India will not be allowed into the secrets of either the engine or the radar.

Better to have just brought the developed fighter as any new customer.

Offcourse a Bangladeshi residing in UK who writes in a Pakistani defence forum will determine what India will get from Russia on FGFA project .....

 

[Gessler]

I think that the Indians are a little naive.

They were promised "technology transfer" by Russians, French and the Jews and naively thought this meant the secrets of the radars, seekers, airframe composites and the engines. What they did not realise is that all this meant was the production of the lower-tech components and assembling the final components in the end..

To this day, very naive Indians think that Russia has transferred the full technology to produce the SU-30MKI. If this was the case then India would have been easily able to design and produce the whole of the lower-tech LCA and not have to rely on imported engines and radars.

No country fully transfers the core technologies. IAF and the other services are well aware of that.

It's not our problem if the dumb media misinforms everyone.

 

[My-Analogous]

Ofcourse. Certainly Chinese planes are not. They are copy of something.

Not something but every single best technology availiable in this world they buy /spy/research to get that and that is how country progress. In late 1940's and in 1950's Japan did the same and American say that its the cheap copy of their technology and it was replace by Korean (from 1960's to 1980's) and American said the same, after that for a short period that status is goes to Taiwan and now from late 1980's till now China capture that status. No one in this world like your progress and support you to be independent from them.

 

[faithfulguy]

India has just been swindled by the Russians for 5 billion dollars to develop a Russian fighter that will only increase Russian aerospace capabilities.

India will not be allowed into the secrets of either the engine or the radar.

Better to have just brought the developed fighter as any new customer.

India get the first chance to buy the plane as it contributed money. So India to PAKFA is equivalent to a level 1 partner in the F-35 program. Nothing more.

No country fully transfers the core technologies. IAF and the other services are well aware of that.

It's not our problem if the dumb media misinforms everyone.

Hopefully, you can convince your fellow Indian members not to put their hopes up for full tech transfer of Rafale. If India hold out on try to get full tech transfer, it will be the biggest loser as it will not get the plane and technology.

Offcourse a Bangladeshi residing in UK who writes in a Pakistani defence forum will determine what India will get from Russia on FGFA project .....

your countryman Gessler agree with him on the next post.