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Swat video ‘conspiracy to malign Islam’: PIHR

You don't have to derail the point I was trying to make by striking at my metaphor ;) but seriously, you talk of re educating people like them when they would put a slug into anyone's head who would approach them and insult their intelligence, they are already burning police stations, so let's see what happens when the government sends ''Re - Education'' officers into Swat.

Good luck with that theory, comrade.

PS - Leninism failed epically.

Anyone who would put a "slug" into anyone else for insulting their intelligence needs an education.

That only confirms what needs to be done.
 
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Observation :

The "Thanks" icon only appears when I get access from an internet cafe.

And my new avatar has uploaded successfully from this location (or appears to have) but it has not updated my old posts.

Maybe it might appear on this post?
 
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Anyone who would put a "slug" into anyone else for insulting their intelligence needs an education.

That only confirms what needs to be done.

Back to the topic. Yes, roadrunner, I follow that logic.

But I have seen how they have treated educators, already. I think the "needs" of the educators should take precedence over the "needs" of pinheads who have burned down over 300 schools recently and declare that the only education worth anything is the one aquired in their madrassas.

Does a religious-based insurgency that trades in its own brand of education need educating?

Or does it need eliminating?

And which would be better for Pakistan, attempting to educate these "students", these "Taliban", or cutting out the diseased part for the sake of the whole body of the patient?

And in who's interests is it that this cancer should not be removed, that this cancer should remain to represent Pakistan to some and to represent Islam to others?
 
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Anyone who would put a "slug" into anyone else for insulting their intelligence needs an education.

That only confirms what needs to be done.

+1. This gun culture is global and is breeding a society of cowards. We've already had about 6 or so mass shootings this year and all of them happened because the loser in question had easy access to guns.
 
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AchtungSpitfire!

Calling gun-culture seems to put a Western slant on it as if it's something new, brought in by negative culture.

Perhaps some of our friends with knowledge of the tribal areas might confirm my suspicions that guns are not a new thing in the tribal areas in the way that "gun-culture" implies.

But yet, you are right to call it that way because it is an invidious world-wide culture, this gangsta-music-popularised respect-me-or-I'll-blow-you-away mentality. Yes, and in the face of all this it it easy to follow the logic of Taliban scripture "experts" and "scholars" who sagely point to such a world-wide gun culture as evidence of the decline and corruption of anything that doesn't conform to their vision of Islam.

Pointing derisively to the "decadent West" earns you many brownie points with your fellow Jihadists, if you happen to be a promoter of the Wahhabist/Maududist/Qutbist (us against the West and Islam against the rest) popular discourse.
 
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Ahh the Taliban Sympathizers at it again!! trying to prove that we can do no wrong and shouldn't be blamed!! jeez like we didn't see that coming!! what else is new 911 was an inside job ?? ..Its unbelievable how some people will call flogging a 'Gentle Caress' and if 3 guys are touching a woman like that while lying on the ground in front of 10 thousand men is not humiliation than I wonder what Humiliation Really means in your context? ... road runner i am sorry but you've lost all credibility...
 
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Back to the topic. Yes, roadrunner, I follow that logic.

But I have seen how they have treated educators, already. I think the "needs" of the educators should take precedence over the "needs" of pinheads who have burned down over 300 schools recently and declare that the only education worth anything is the one aquired in their madrassas.

Does a religious-based insurgency that trades in its own brand of education need educating?

Or does it need eliminating?

And which would be better for Pakistan, attempting to educate these "students", these "Taliban", or cutting out the diseased part for the sake of the whole body of the patient?

And in who's interests is it that this cancer should not be removed, that this cancer should remain to represent Pakistan to some and to represent Islam to others?

"Those" people are Pakistanis. Regardless of what you may think, "those" people do have a following that is large enough to require the use of genocidal techniques to expunge them from Pakistani society.

The responsibility for this "disease" as you put it rests with, imo, General Zia, the Americans, and the Saudis. It reminds me of Frankenstein, where the Baron creates a monster, then, realizing it's a killer, tries to kill it off. Only he's not strong enough. The monster keeps getting stronger.

One way to quell the monster's appetite was to build another monster, so they would leave the world alone. Not that I'm suggesting building another Taliban of course, but there's not a military answer. The only solution is firstly to ride out the storm next door with the minimum of casualties, then to re-educate everyone in the region. I'd suggest including the Afghanis in this.
 
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Ahh the Taliban Sympathizers at it again!! trying to prove that we can do no wrong and shouldn't be blamed!! jeez like we didn't see that coming!! what else is new 911 was an inside job ?? ..Its unbelievable how some people will call flogging a 'Gentle Caress' and if 3 guys are touching a woman like that while lying on the ground in front of 10 thousand men is not humiliation than I wonder what Humiliation Really means in your context? ... road runner i am sorry but you've lost all credibility...

Do i give a shyt what you think? Not really, credibility loss is the least of my worries, it's more like yours if you think 10,000 men were there.

Public humiliation.. How is that a bad thing? I'd suggest if someone does something wrong, public humilation is a much more effective weapon than imprisoning them or other punishments. Paedophiles would cease to be paedophiles in a quick flash in this case.

However, in the video, did anyone see the girl's face? No. So it wasn't even a public humilation. It was a pointless bit of symbolism, which had absolutely no benefit in punishing the girl, the only effect it had was that of creating a lot of groaning and moaning and perhaps putting the Swat peace deal on hold.

If you want to complain about the Taliban, complain over legitimate things, such as razing police stations, or closing schools, not over something happening like this in Swat. Those are legitimate grievances. This bit of theatre looks political.
 
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Do i give a shyt what you think? Not really, credibility loss is the least of my worries, it's more like yours if you think 10,000 men were there.

Public humiliation.. How is that a bad thing? I'd suggest if someone does something wrong, public humilation is a much more effective weapon than imprisoning them or other punishments. Paedophiles would cease to be paedophiles in a quick flash in this case.

Unbelievable!! lol.. Comparing a simple girl who was walking down the street with someone other than her husband with a Pedophile!! very nice!!!!! And What crimes did this young woman do to deserve public humiliation like this in the first place? ... Public humiliation may not be a bad thing for those who commit horrendous crimes which was NOT the case as far as this young 17 year old girl is concerned so your point is moot and downright embarrassing for an educated person like you to defend something like this.

However, in the video, did anyone see the girl's face? No. So it wasn't even a public humilation. It was a pointless bit of symbolism, which had absolutely no benefit in punishing the girl, the only effect it had was that of creating a lot of groaning and moaning and perhaps putting the Swat peace deal on hold.

If you want to complain about the Taliban, complain over legitimate things, such as razing police stations, or closing schools, not over something happening like this in Swat. Those are legitimate grievances. This bit of theatre looks political.

This event IS a major Grievance aside from the ones you listed above which are very very important concerns as well.. but this goes far beyond just a girl being punished for merely no reason. It shows a lot more about the the consequences of having a Taliban Government in power. No Free Speech, No Civil Liberties, No conscience, No Gender Equality, Sexism, no proper law and order, Totalitarianism, Bigotry and Fascism at its best.

This may not be a concern for you .. but it sure as hell is a concern for me being especially being a resident of Peshawar.
 
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Unbelievable!! lol.. Comparing a simple girl who was walking down the street with someone other than her husband with a Pedophile!! very nice!!!!! And What crimes did this young woman do to deserve public humiliation like this in the first place? ... Public humiliation may not be a bad thing for those who commit horrendous crimes which was NOT the case as far as this young 17 year old girl is concerned so your point is moot and downright embarrassing for an educated person like you to defend something like this.

1) it wasn't a public humiliation. Look up the definition.
2) You're twisting words. I have said in a previous post that the girl was probably innocent, however the attention to the "barbaric" punishment by you and your ilk, is nothing more than melodrama to try and change the Swat peace deal. The flogging was more like a tap on her back, it did not even penetrate layers of clothing. That was not barbaric or perverse. It was simply symbolic. That symbolism didn't carry out any punishment, and that is the point I was trying to convey to you, not whether she guilty of a crime, something which I stated before is that she's probably innocent.

Another point, are differences in culture. I don't know what her crime was like you seem to. Here is what I found:

"The details of her alleged crime were confused, but residents in her village of Kala Killey in Swat said the woman was accused of illicit relations with an electrician and forced to marry him as part of her punishment."
Pakistan court investigates woman's flogging | smh.com.au

What does "illicit relations" mean to you? Stepping outside with another man?

For me personally, I'd not bat an eyelid, it's her business if she likes the whole village. But that's my own cultural views. If the people of Swat regard it as normal, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Since I don't know what they regard as normal in Swat, as no survey has been taken, it's none of my business to say whether illicit relations should be illicit in Swat, or shouldn't be. Personally, I hope they realize it's a personal choice eventually.

This event IS a major Grievance aside from the ones you listed above which are very very important concerns as well.. but this goes far beyond just a girl being punished for merely no reason. It shows a lot more about the the consequences of having a Taliban Government in power. No Free Speech, No Civil Liberties, No conscience, No Gender Equality, Sexism, no proper law and order, Totalitarianism, Bigotry and Fascism at its best.

This may not be a concern for you .. but it sure as hell is a concern for me being especially being a resident of Peshawar.

That's funny, I know many residents of Peshawar, and none of them speak English as well as you, not to mention have Canadian flags up on their profiles. But you can be what you want.. it's the internet after all. But I digress.

Having the Taliban in power would be something like this or the MMA, which led to some ultra conservative laws that were nonsensical. What happened to the MMA? They were voted out of power by people in the region. So why is one Mullah so powerful in Swat? He's had some outside help. Instead of genociding Pakistanis, the answer is to look at where his weapons are coming from. Then to prevent him from getting those weapons. If you want the whole of Pakistan to become Talibanized, you have the right attitude for making this happen, by bombing the inhabitants.
 
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Going back to the thread title. It would appear that it could be a conspiracy, but not to malign Islam. I think it's more to try and malign the Swat deal.

Did it ever occur?

Saturday, April 04, 2009
Girl’s flogging did not take place in Swat: TTP SWAT: The spokesman of outlawed Tahreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) Muslim Khan said the incident of flogging a girl did not take place in Swat.

Talking to media, Muslim Khan said the act is in accordance with shariah but this was not happened in Swat. He said the punishment awarded to woman was just as the woman was loose character but the incident shown in video was another one.

Khan said no one would allow to interfere in shariah and if any man or woman commit sin, we will punish them according to shariah. Peace is directly related with imposition of Islamic laws.

He termed the video played on media yesterday as fake and said we will punish the man who filmed the video whenever we catch him. We could not follow west, he further added.
 
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^^^ You must agree that this specific article is highly ambiguous.


I hate to repeat other threads, but why not believe the girl in question?

FLOGGED GIRL DENIED FOR FLOGGING


NEW STORY OF INJUSTIC

ISLAMABAD: The teenage girl who was filmed being flogged by the Taliban in Pakistan’s restive Swat valley has denied that the incident ever occurred in a statement made to government officials, media reports said on Monday.

Chand Bibi, the 17-year-old girl who was shown being held down by three men while a fourth flogged her, reportedly told the judge of a Qazi or Islamic court and Divisional Commissioner Syed Mohammad Javed yesterday that such an incident had never happened.

Now what do you say? That never looked like a 17 year old girl who was committing illicit acts.

Can we say, Roadrunner, you were correct, it appears that it was all staged by someone to break up the Swat deal?
 
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