Sushma Swaraj gets hauled over the coals over Sri Lanka

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

^^ I do want to know how much TN fishermen got killed by SL Navy each year.
so What's the score for this year so far? Any Tamil from TN can give reliable source?

Certainly will be less than the score of Sri Lankan army killing Sri Lankan civilains in the last stages of Eelam-IV war

 

[Sashan]

It is not a thread that I really want any part of, but some fallacies are flying around and should be brought down to earth.

This is intended for KS, Sashan and Ashokdeiva.

It is difficult to support the legitimate demand of the Jaffna Tamils for human rights, removal of bigoted anti-Tamil laws and the oppression of the Sinhala majority, all of which are cold, hard, documented facts, against the background of the criminal conduct of the LTTE. Unfortunately, the LTTE lasted as a potentially harmful entity as late as the sea beach massacres perpetrated by the Sri Lankans, so it is not as if there was a period when there was no LTTE and there was Tamil oppression. Only now, once there is no visible sign of the LTTE, can we begin to ask the Sri Lankans about justice for the Tamils.

Isn't LTTE the terrorist organization the reason for many of the Tamils including me keeping quiet on the issue of the SL tamils for a long time? My position is always clear if you see my previous posts in other threads - Somewhere inbetween a non-violent SL tamil movement was hijacked by the LTTE supported by the RAW and the Indian government.


Having stated that what is the reason for Indian government to get involved with the war in SL and having participated what was the reason they kept quiet when the SL tamils were killed in the last stages of war?

As part of this issue, Indian Tamils need to answer several questions that their consciences should be asking of them.

Why is it that Indian Tamil support of Jaffna Tamils is legitimate and Muslim support of Rohingyas is wrong? I am ashamed and angry at the behaviour of the mob in Bombay, but not about Indian citizens protesting against ill-treatment of Rohingyas. If the very act of protesting is illegitimate, then so is Indian Tamil protesting against the Sri Lankans brutality. If Indian Tamil protests are legitimate, then so are protests against the oppression of Rohingyas.

I have not seen it as an issue when the muslims protested against Israel in Delhi in support of Palestine a few years back when an Israeli leader visited India(I forgot the name but I vividly remember the protests). It is the freedom of speech and assembly provided by a democratic country. I see an issue when the mob desecrates a war memorial(not to be mention the subsequent desecration of Lord Buddha/Lord Mahavira statues). How on earth do you equate both the behavior? I have always been consistent with my views - I always condemned the attitude of the traitor Karunanidhi when IPKF landed in Madras Harbor.

Second, on the voices raised by several members against the ordeals faced by Indian Tamil fishermen, these ordeals are largely phony, and are concocted by the rich members of the fishing community to cover their own depredations. It isn't about poor fishermen, it's about ecological devastation, and the existence of the poorer fishermen being at stake.

Some facts,gathered from personal experience and investigation :

The Sri Lankans fishermen objecting to the poaching of Indian fishermen are Jaffna Tamils, not Sri Lankans. What on earth are you protesting?

The Sri Lankans and a remaining poorer section of Indian fishermen, all Tamils to a man, use unpowered or outboard-powered boats for fishing in the shallows, which, for Sri Lankan fishermen, includes the waters around Kachchateevu. Their fishing is in danger.

The culprits, who are funding agitations by politicians for their own gains, are rich fishermen, actually traders who have integrated backwards, and whose mechanized trawlers cause ecological devastation. Their boats, and methods, lead to drastic over-fishing and irreversible damage to fish stocks in the Kachchateevu waters (shoal waters off Rameswaram are already depleted).

I have raised one question which I have not got an answer from you in other threads or from other members. Why on earth Katchatheevu was granted to SL illegally? Considering your argument about rich fishermen vs poor fishermen atleast it would have been 1 less entity involved in the issue i.e SL navy.

Vaiko should have been executed ten years earlier as an anti-national traitor.

My view on him is I always felt he is an idiot for his morbid support for LTTE and felt a well educated politician who got wasted.

 

[Skyline]

Certainly will less than the score of Sri Lankan army killing Sri Lankan civilain in the last stages of Eelam-IV war?

Now you are acting like some of silly Tamil members here. lol
but Im 100% sure it is less than the score of the Tamil Tigers killing list for 25 years!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Pls share your experiences there. Was it before or after the Eelam war?

I would very well like to know an unbiased situation analysis of Tamils there after the Eelam war.

This was first in the period 1998 to 2000. We were conducting certain studies on the Tamil Nadu side, which involved maritime activity. I went to the site to inspect what the team was doing, and accompanied them on several occasions.

During this period, there was no Sri Lankan naval presence. We were very careful not to step on any toes, as the IPKF had been in conflict with the LTTE, and they had a strong 'informal' presence on the Indian side.

In 2006 and 2007, I happened to be in many of those places and things were different. The SL Navy was active, and very hostile, and suspicious of arms running. The word in the street was that this was going on, but elsewhere, and the 'boys' were fighting hard and would win again. Rumour was rife, there were incidents of confrontation reported, and there were hints that some injuries were inflicted by the LTTE but reported, due to fear, as SL incidents.

There was also talk of refugee running, for a price, and opposed both by LTTE and Sri Lankans. I never saw any myself.

I have no personal information about the situation today, myself, but reports are frightening.

Is there any records of how much Tamil fishermen are killed by SLN every year.

I am not aware of any source.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Now you are acting like some of silly Tamil members here. lol
but Im 100% sure it is less than the score of the Tamil Tigers killing list for 25 years!

You already sounded like a bigoted Sinhala, using the term "score" for killing of people.

 

[Sashan]

Joe sir - maybe an offtopic but I had it in my mind to ask you this as you brought up the Mumbai riots. I noticed that you were thanking some members who brought up the right wing hindu issue to show the bad elements in various communities for threads involving Mumbai riots/UP riots. I felt that you were not impartial in your views.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Isn't LTTE the terrorist organization the reason for many of the Tamils including me keeping quiet on the issue of the SL tamils for a long time? My position is always clear if you see my previous posts in other threads - Somewhere inbetween a non-violent SL tamil movement was hijacked by the LTTE supported by the RAW and the Indian government.


Having stated that what is the reason for Indian government to get involved with the war in SL and having participated what was the reason they kept quiet when the SL tamils were killed in the last stages of war?

How many ways do you know to spell 'STUPID'?

I believe that India should have protested in the 50s, and not waited until it had got to the stage of civil war. I believe that once it had got to that stage, it should have been government policy to broker an honest peace, but not send in troops without a clear plan. What followed was butchery, and I blame the political leadership of that pleasant-looking idiot RG and an over-ambitious but under-equipped military leadership for the debacle. I don't blame Prabhakaran because you don't blame a wolf in your back-yard, you kill it.

The Indian posture of studied indifference subsequently was directly responsible for the genocide that followed. It allowed the LTTE to continue to be the only hope for the Tamils and destroyed any chances of a peaceful solution.

I have not seen it as an issue when the muslims protested against Israel in Delhi before in support of Palestine a few years back when an Israeli leader visited India(I forgot the name but I vividly remember the protests). It is the freedom speech and assembly provided by a democratic country. I see an issue when the mob desecrates a war memorial(not to be mention the subsequent desecration of Lord Buddha/Lord Mahavira statues). How on earth do you equate both the behavior? I have always been consistent with my views - I always condemned the attitude of the traitor Karunanidhi when IPKF landed in Madras Harbor.

I am not equating the rioting mob with the protests that you have mentioned.

What I am asking is how we can deter peaceful protests, unless we accept peaceful protests of all kinds, and how we can condemn mob violence unless we condemn the mob of all types. And terrorism, as the extreme case of protest.

I have raised one question which I have not got an answer from you in other threads or from other members. Why on earth Katchatheevu was granted to SL illegally? Considering your argument about rich fishermen vs poor fishermen atleast it would have been 1 less entity involved in the issue i.e SL navy.

I have to write separately about this. There was a great deal of ambiguity about ownership of Kachchateevu, and there were Dministrative measures taken by the British which caused great confusion after they left. This afternoon, perhaps, on my return.

My view on him is I always felt he is an idiot for his morbid support for LTTE and felt a well educated politician who got wasted.

A pain for all reasons.

Joe sir - maybe an offtopic but I had it in my mind to ask you this as you brought up the Mumbai riots. I noticed that you were thanking some members who brought up the right wing hindu issue to show the bad elements in various communities for threads involving Mumbai riots/UP riots. I felt that you were not impartial in your views.

I am against extremists and the violent of all tendencies. I believe that up to a point, the Muslim protests were justified. The desecration of our monuments to our heroes was beyond the pale. Their idiotic behaviour towards the statues of Buddha were so ineffective and laughable that they were not worth commenting about, not even to point out that they were attacking, in effigy, the Rakhines.

I take note of your observation, and hope we can discuss it later, elsewhere.

 

[Ticker]

I have been reading the Indian opinion here and certain things do spring a surprise. Some Tamil Indians are talking about secession from India if there concerns are not addressed.

This is the first time that I have heard this thing from peoples form a mainstream Indian state. This could be an emotional outburst. However, it outlines the serious concerns expressed by these people to a level where secession from India is being talked about.

Can anybody explain as to why such expressions are cited - is the nature of grievance so serious that break up of a country is being threatened.

 

[BJP*]

I have been reading the Indian opinion here and certain things do spring a surprise. Some Tamil Indians are talking about secession from India if there concerns are not addressed.

This is the first time that I have heard this thing from peoples form a mainstream Indian state. This could be an emotional outburst. However, it outlines the serious concerns expressed by these people to a level where secession from India is being talked about.

Can anybody explain as to why such expressions are cited - is the nature of grievance so serious that break up of a country is being threatened.

These type of people existed in India right from 1947. several times India was on verge of breaking, at that time situation was dangerous because central govt didn't had enough resources or power to control people. Even all the foreign newspapers predicted breaking of Indian union by 1965. I must say it was the result of intelligence of the then Indian leaders that they managed to keep India united.

As of now Indian union is much stronger than the entire Indian history. Thanks to matured democracy

 

[harpoon]

These type of people existed in India right from 1947. several times India was on verge of breaking, at that time situation was dangerous because central govt didn't had enough resources or power to control people. Even all the foreign newspapers predicted breaking of Indian union by 1965. I must say it was the result of intelligence of the then Indian leaders that they managed to keep India united.

As of now Indian union is much stronger than the entire Indian history. Thanks to matured democracy

In a way we should thank 1962 war with China. It increased the nationalist sentiments in India especially south. The pro-secession Dravidian parties changed their attitude post-1962.

 

[Ticker]

These type of people existed in India right from 1947. several times India was on verge of breaking, at that time situation was dangerous because central govt didn't had enough resources or power to control people. Even all the foreign newspapers predicted breaking of Indian union by 1965. I must say it was the result of intelligence of the then Indian leaders that they managed to keep India united.

As of now Indian union is much stronger than the entire Indian history. Thanks to matured democracy

Does it mean that the current Indian leadership is not capable of handling the environment as compared to the earlier one. And India now being a mature democracy, can sustain such weak leadership.

In a way we should thank 1962 war with China. It increased the nationalist sentiments in India especially south. The pro-secession Dravidian parties changed their attitude post-1962.

Then, why are they now asking for secession again if their concerns are not met.

 

[harpoon]

Then, why are they now asking for secession again if their concerns are not met.

A small minority..even in this forum/thread only 2 i know of spoke about it and was quickly countered by more than 2 Tamil Indian members.

 

[Ticker]

A small minority..even in this forum/thread only 2 i know of spoke about it and was quickly countered by more than 2 Tamil Indian members.

Its not the number of people who express this. It is the expression of such an intent, even by a minority, which raises the level of surprise.

 

[Riteon]

Does it mean that the current Indian leadership is not capable of handling the environment as compared to the earlier one. And India now being a mature democracy, can sustain such weak leadership.



Then, why are they now asking for secession again if their concerns are not met.

Current India is more integrated that ever...Even kashmir.....In my place Kerala ...there are plenty of Kashmiri businessmen ..doing various trades...and bloody rich too ............On top of that ......the interdependency and fusion of diverse culture and people has made it impossible to seperate.......the mutual acceptance of difference and national unity with diversity has been embedded very well............the only regions still in the process of getting integrated is the North east ...On top of that Democracy has allowed every state to have role in centre.



even weak leaders can sustain it easily. People demanding secession are fringe ********...

if you are subjucated the same way we are subjucated you will be singing a different tune.
put yourself in the shoes of a man who is treated as second class citizen and his women being raped in front of his eyes.
when you Muslims sing the song of Palestine in the same tune, why not give support to the weak who are supressed in the name of difference in language and race

What sorty of buffonery is this !!!

You think everything black and white when war takes place .What about the crimes of LTTE against its own ppl and the sinahlese ??

Indians have always given political support [only that] to Palestinians............The civil war in Sri lanka is the political indifference india showed .

 

[harpoon]

Its not the number of people who express this. It is the expression of such an intent, even by a minority, which raises the level of surprise.

Neo-Nazis exist even in Russia ,a country that suffered the most die to Nazism..so people of all political beliefs exist in all countries, but its the will of the majority that matters.