Sunni and Shia and their divergent path

[kalu_miah]

We need to understand what Iran's Mullah's have been doing since 1979, creating a Shia Ummah for themselves, helping the Shia in every place on earth in every way possible and turning them towards Qom as their sole spiritual center. A 200 million population centered on an ideology controlled and developed in Qom, backed by Iranian oil wealth and the Iranian state, while Shia majority oil rich state of Iraq has teamed up with them. This is a significant force, that even the Arab world in a united Arab League will find difficult to deal with. They are also spread out from India to Arabian peninsula. You can see from the PDF posts, a lot of Pakistani and Indian Muslim posters are Shia and they support Iran overtly and covertly. Algeria as a state somehow seems to be friendly to them, although they are Sunni Muslims, perhaps because their strong relations with Russia. So is Hamas, out of gratitude from past help they received from Iran and Hezb.

In many Sunni countries Iran has been known to target Sunni Muslims to convert them to Shi'ism, I have heard about their activities in Malaysia, Indonesia and Sub-saharan Muslim countries like Nigeria. In this respect, their activity is no different than aggressive targeting of Muslims for conversion by Christian evangelists.
Joshua Project

Since the difference between Shia and Sunni goes back to the beginning of Islam and since the difference has not been resolved yet in 1400 years and since many Shia's consider Sunni's to be deviant and consider only Shia to be true Muslims as is evident from their effort to convert and create their own exclusive Shia Ummah, then I think we can safely say that Shia and Sunni do not follow the same religion. Ironically both Shia and Sunni like to call themselves the only true Muslim. So those of us who say there is fighting between two Muslim peoples, this is sheer deception and Taqiyah, because these are not same peoples.

Because of this difference and because of their recent aggression against Sunni Muslims, OIC should consider expelling Iran and suspending memberships of Iraq and Lebanon as all 3 states are currently controlled by Shia govt. or militia. After that move, the OIC should ban Shia people and states who are engaged in active aggression against Sunni Muslims from holding Hajj in Mecca and Medina and refuse them entry to these holy sites of Islam. Lets put the money where your mouth is and show some spine for a change please.

Iran will remain under Mullah control for the foreseeable future, because of IRGC and Basij both of which are creation of the Mullah govt. that arose during Iran-Iraq war. And this means that Qom centric Shia Ummah consolidation will continue for the foreseeable future. Basij together with IRGC essentially runs Iran, while the Mullah's have become their mouthpiece. Together they have more than 200k full time, 300k reserve and more than a million armed members who can join as a fighting force as and when needed. In addition to these forces they have now access to Hezb, Houthi, Iraqi militia and even Hazara from Afghanistan.
Basij - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those of us who were here previously may recall, after ISIS emerged on the scene, I was upset about GCC govt. policies, because for long I have been posting comments to exercise caution about funds that are flowing to extremists fighting Assad. These funds obviously went not from govts but from private individuals, but govts failed to stop this flow of funds. To counter the rise of extremist rebels, I was proposing an OICPKF to tackle Assad and other Iranian proxies head on, which could be set up in an initiative led by the GCC govts.
OIC Peace Keeping Force for maintaining peace in majority Muslim countries

I was also upset because GCC govts believed and depended too much on the US in the Syrian conflict (hiding under the skirt of the US?), who turned out to be unreliable in the end, thanks specially to Obama. As I suspected, most people in the West has the attitude that "let these barbarian Muslim retards exterminate each other, it will be better for the world. Only good Muslim is a ....", so the govts. in the West with their inaction simply followed the opinion of their masses. GCC govts wrong decision to believe and to depend on the West, was a blunder which Iran and Iran's proxy Assad took full advantage of. Iran and Assad combined strategy always has been to provide space for and facilitate the growth of Sunni extremism, so they can eventually turn anti-West and then Iran and Assad will then join together with the West to destroy the Frankenstein monster. GCC govts could not foresee this game in the early stages of the anti-Assad rebellion and played right into this trap the Iranians and Assad set for them.

To be fair it is not just people in the West who feel ok with Muslims exterminating each other. I am afraid that a large cross section of population in China, India and Russia, have similar views about Muslims, specially Sunni Muslims, who are prone to irrational bouts of extremism and violence, thanks in large part to different variants of Salafi doctrine and its ability to turn normal mainstream Sunni Muslims into violent irrational extremists. Also it is because no one wants competition in their turf and Sunni Muslims, because of their current and future size (1.2 billion in just Sunni majority countries) if they become more united, can become an independent world power of sorts and a competitor, whereas the Shia, due to their smaller size will always remain dependent on their benefactors, like Russia and to some extent China.

Also, I was urging for a Global Fiqh Center (GFC) for Sunni Muslims to resolve the differences between different Madhabs and bring them closer together. This GFC then could easily declare the deviant extremists as outside the fold of Islam and thus expose, debunk and delegitimize their false claim among common Sunni Muslims, that they are supposedly following THE true path of Islam while committing War Crimes at the same time, violating basic Islamic laws:
How to stop Islamic extremism: Global Fiqh Council (GFC)
International Islamic Fiqh Academy, Jeddah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jeddah based OIC fiqh academy could be turned into this GFC and Saudi and other Arab Islamic scholars (Ulema) could lead this effort to reach a global consensus with other Ulema from all parts of the Sunni Muslim world. We must recognize that Salafism as a doctrine in its current form has proved to be a failure in promoting peace and development in Muslim societies and foster unity among the diverse Sunni Muslim community of different nationalities spread across Asia and Africa. We need to come up with a better alternative that will be acceptable to 1.4 billion Sunni Muslims of the world and which will also be good for unity, progress, development and tolerance among Muslim societies. Tolerance however does not mean that we need to keep lying down and become slaves of the Shia, but to become powerful we need to unify and consolidate the Sunni Muslim community of the world and keep them away from violent irrational extremism.

After the rise of Houthi's, His Royal Highness King Salman has made an excellent move to initiate attack on Iran's Houthi proxy in Yemen. Also a unified Arab force is an excellent move in the right direction. The decision to invite and include Turkey and Pakistan in this coalition is also great. But note that Turkey being a NATO member cannot directly participate at this stage, so their support will be limited to intelligence, logistics and perhaps equipment supply. Pakistan is also hesitant to get involved. Please note here that both Turkey and Pakistan, although they are Sunni majority, they have size-able Shia population, which is at least 10-15%. Specially in Pakistan Shia are highly educated, organized and influential. Some say they are 30% in the Army. The consensus I see in PDF is that Pakistan will help KSA defensively but not take part in any offensive operation outside KSA borders.

I believe KSA strategists also need to approach the other 3 major Sunni Muslim countries of the world, which are Indonesia, Malaysia and Bangladesh. If non-Arab countries like Turkey and Pakistan can get involved, there is no reason to exclude these 3 countries, especially so because these countries have practically no significant Shia population from historical times in the past till today. So even if they become involved in offensive war in Yemen or Syria or Iraq, there is not much opportunity for Iran to retaliate against these 3 countries using their internal minuscule Shia population as their 5th column proxies Also these 3 countries do not border with Iran and have no significant economic relations with Iran..Indonesia, the largest Muslim country, has a size-able armed forces and experienced personnel. Bangladesh also has a well trained armed forces serving in UN peace-keeping operations.

Iranian aggressive effort for the last 36 years to unify their Shia Ummah have proved that if Sunni Muslims do not get unified in a similar effort with all the major countries then it will be difficult to counter Iran led Shia Ummah from establishing dominance over all of Mid-east. If and when Iran gets nukes, then it will become even more difficult to stop Iran from its ambitious goal. In a way, I am glad that Iran has been going in this direction, because if Iran did not start moving in this direction, then Sunni Muslims would not feel the need or urge to get unified. Because there is this threat of Iran led united Shia Ummah, it also presents an opportunity where all major Sunni countries can come together and hopefully form some kind of Sunni Muslim NATO of sorts for collective self defense, starting with the OICPKF effort. After setting up this collective NATO like entity, if we can provide security for all member states, only then it will be possible to develop our 1.2 billion population. Economic growth and developing a population into their full potential does not happen amid chaos. In such a scenario:

- Iran will forever be defeated against this alliance, remain subservient, cease meddling and pose no threat to Arab world
- Indonesia and Malaysia will fulfill their dream of creating a more integrated ASEAN perhaps with a future unified Korea as their close ally
- Pakistan and Bangladesh will no longer be bullied by India and will be able to get fair share of river water that have sources upstream in India
- Egypt will ensure its fair share of water for the Nile river

just to mention some of the myriad benefits

All of the above can happen under tacit understanding from the West as I believe the West may see some benefit in the formation of this alliance, specially reduction of extremism and terrorism. Like other powers they may not like to see a competitor emerge in world stage, but all powers of the world eventually will accept such ideas, because a united, peaceful and developed Sunni Muslim world is better than a terrorist infested chaotic fragmented hellhole like it is today.

With peace and stability in our countries, free from interference from external powers, we will then be able to concentrate on development, industrialization and advancement in science and technology. Instead of being just the Royal family of Saudi Arabia, with this direction, there is potential that Al Saud family will be able to become the main Royal family of the Sunni Ummah of 1.2 billion people, while the Royal families from UAE and Kuwait will be able to become the 2nd tier influential families for the Sunni Muslim Ummah, right after the Al Saud family. The potentials are unlimited if people in key places (and palaces?) understand the plus side and start moving in this direction with concrete steps. But it needs a comprehensive long term plan and strategy, not some panicky reactions and hasty acts like what we apparently see in Yemen.

Iran is serious about building up the Shia Ummah and I congratulate their effort in investing their time and resources in this effort. Gulf Arabs have the resources, but they need to understand that unless they are committed to the greater cause of building up the Sunni Ummah, the people in Sunni Ummah will not come forward with full commitment to shed their blood just as paid mercenaries to help Gulf Arabs in their time of need.Together we can make it happen Insha-Allah, but first the decision makers must make the right decisions:

 

[Saif al-Arab]

One of the best posts to date on PDF.

Well done @kalu_miah . You are by no means politically active are you? If not you should. I am sure that you would be able to get a position at the OIC or another international Muslim organization if you wanted and had the right credentials.

Something is differently going to happen sooner rather than later. Either by own initiative or due to geopolitical necessities.

Notice all the security and economic, security etc. agreements signed between the Arab League and the EU recently too. Topics of common interest such as terrorism, economic cooperation etc. were also discussed closely.

Europe's largest border and the Arab world's largest border is basically with nearby Europe. It's our backyard and vice versa. A stable Arab world is in the interest of Europe and always will be. No two ways about it. The potential in terms of cooperation has not even reached 5%.

The West would definitely be on board as you write yourself as it would be in their interest. Stability obviously creates a better environment for investments and cooperation. Imagine if the GCC was another Afghanistan, Somalia, North Korea or Iran? No Western, Chinese etc. investments would have been made nor billions if not trillions of dollars invested throughout the decades.

Anyway such plans require better leadership in the Muslim world and saner populations. Sadly we have none of that currently outside of a few individuals but they can't perform miracles on their own.

 

[Serpentine]

We need to understand what Iran's Mullah's have been doing since 1979, creating a Shia Ummah for themselves, helping the Shia in every place on earth in every way possible and turning them towards Qom as their sole spiritual center. A 200 million population centered on an ideology controlled and developed in Qom, backed by Iranian oil wealth and the Iranian state, while Shia majority oil rich state of Iraq has teamed up with them. This is a significant force, that even the Arab world in a united Arab League will find difficult to deal with. They are also spread out from India to Arabian peninsula. You can see from the PDF posts, a lot of Pakistani and Indian Muslim posters are Shia and they support Iran overtly and covertly. Algeria as a state somehow seems to be friendly to them, although they are Sunni Muslims, perhaps because their strong relations with Russia. So is Hamas, out of gratitude from past help they received from Iran and Hezb.

In many Sunni countries Iran has been known to target Sunni Muslims to convert them to Shi'ism, I have heard about their activities in Malaysia, Indonesia and Sub-saharan Muslim countries like Nigeria. In this respect, their activity is no different than aggressive targeting of Muslims for conversion by Christian evangelists.
Joshua Project

Since the difference between Shia and Sunni goes back to the beginning of Islam and since the difference has not been resolved yet in 1400 years and since many Shia's consider Sunni's to be deviant and consider only Shia to be true Muslims as is evident from their effort to convert and create their own exclusive Shia Ummah, then I think we can safely say that Shia and Sunni do not follow the same religion. Ironically both Shia and Sunni like to call themselves the only true Muslim. So those of us who say there is fighting between two Muslim peoples, this is sheer deception and Taqiyah, because these are not same peoples.

Because of this difference and because of their recent aggression against Sunni Muslims, OIC should consider expelling Iran and suspending memberships of Iraq and Lebanon as all 3 states are currently controlled by Shia govt. or militia. After that move, the OIC should ban Shia people and states who are engaged in active aggression against Sunni Muslims from holding Hajj in Mecca and Medina and refuse them entry to these holy sites of Islam. Lets put the money where your mouth is and show some spine for a change please.

Iran will remain under Mullah control for the foreseeable future, because of IRGC and Basij both of which are creation of the Mullah govt. that arose during Iran-Iraq war. And this means that Qom centric Shia Ummah consolidation will continue for the foreseeable future. Basij together with IRGC essentially runs Iran, while the Mullah's have become their mouthpiece. Together they have more than 200k full time, 300k reserve and more than a million armed members who can join as a fighting force as and when needed. In addition to these forces they have now access to Hezb, Houthi, Iraqi militia and even Hazara from Afghanistan.
Basij - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those who of who were here previously may recall, after ISIS emerged on the scene, I was a little upset about GCC govt. policies, because for long I have been posting comments to exercise caution about funds that are flowing to extremists fighting Assad. These funds obviously went not from govts but from private individuals, but govts failed to stop this flow of funds. To counter the rise of extremist rebels, I was proposing an OICPKF to tackle Assad and other Iranian proxies head on, which could be set up in an initiative led by the GCC govts.
OIC Peace Keeping Force for maintaining peace in majority Muslim countries

I was also upset because GCC govts believed and depended too much on the US in the Syrian conflict (hiding under the skirt of the US?), who turned out to be unreliable in the end, thanks specially to Obama. As I suspected, most people in the West has the attitude that "let these barbarian Muslim retards exterminate each other, it will be better for the world. Only good Muslim is a ....", so the govts. in the West with their inaction simply followed the opinion of their masses. GCC govts wrong decision to believe and to depend on the West, was a blunder which Iran and Iran's proxy Assad took full advantage of. Iran and Assad combined strategy always has been to provide space for and facilitate the growth of Sunni extremism, so they can eventually turn anti-West and then Iran and Assad will then join together with the West to destroy the Frankenstein monster. GCC govts could not foresee this game in the early stages of the anti-Assad rebellion and played right into this trap the Iranians and Assad set for them.

To be fair it is not just people in the West who feel ok with Muslims exterminating each other. I am afraid that a large cross section of population in China, India and Russia, have similar views about Muslims, specially Sunni Muslims, who are prone to irrational bouts of extremism and violence, thanks in large part to different variants of Salafi doctrine and its ability to turn normal mainstream Sunni Muslims into violent irrational extremists. Also it is because no one wants competition in their turf and Sunni Muslims, because of their current and future size (1.2 billion in just Sunni majority countries) if they become more united, can become an independent world power of sorts and a competitor, whereas the Shia, due to their smaller size will always remain dependent on their benefactors, like Russia and to some extent China.

Also, I was urging for a Global Fiqh Center (GFC) for Sunni Muslims to resolve the differences between different Madhabs and bring them closer together. This GFC then could easily declare the deviant extremists as outside the fold of Islam and thus expose, debunk and delegitimize their false claim among common Sunni Muslims, that they are supposedly following THE true path of Islam while committing War Crimes at the same time, violating basic Islamic laws:
How to stop Islamic extremism: Global Fiqh Council (GFC)
International Islamic Fiqh Academy, Jeddah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jeddah based OIC fiqh academy could be turned into this GFC and Saudi and other Arab Islamic scholars (Ulema) could lead this effort to reach a global consensus with other Ulema from all parts of the Sunni Muslim world. We must recognize that Salafism as a doctrine in its current form has proved to be a failure in promoting peace and development in Muslim societies and foster unity among the diverse Sunni Muslim community of different nationalities spread across Asia and Africa. We need to come up with a better alternative that will be acceptable to 1.4 billion Sunni Muslims of the world and which will also be good for unity, progress, development and tolerance among Muslim societies. Tolerance however does not mean that we need to keep lying down and become slaves of the Shia, but to become powerful we need to unify and consolidate the Sunni Muslim community of the world and keep them away from violent irrational extremism.

After the rise of Houthi's, His Royal Highness King Salman has made an excellent move to initiate attack on Iran's Houthi proxy in Yemen. Also a unified Arab force is an excellent move in the right direction. The decision to invite and include Turkey and Pakistan in this coalition is also great. But note that Turkey being a NATO member cannot directly participate at this stage, so their support will be limited to intelligence, logistics and perhaps equipment supply. Pakistan is also hesitant to get involved. Please note here that both Turkey and Pakistan, although they are Sunni majority, they have size-able Shia population, which is at least 10-15%. Specially in Pakistan Shia are highly educated, organized and influential. Some say they are 30% in the Army. The consensus I see in PDF is that Pakistan will help KSA defensively but not take part in any offensive operation outside KSA borders.

I believe KSA strategists also need to approach the other 3 major Sunni Muslim countries of the world, which are Indonesia, Malaysia and Bangladesh. If non-Arab countries like Turkey and Pakistan can get involved, there is no reason to exclude these 3 countries, especially so because these countries have practically no significant Shia population from historical times in the past till today. So even if they become involved in offensive war in Yemen or Syria or Iraq, there is not much opportunity for Iran to retaliate against these 3 countries using their internal minuscule Shia population as their 5th column proxies Also these 3 countries do not border with Iran and have no significant economic relations with Iran..Indonesia, the largest Muslim country, has a size-able armed forces and experienced personnel. Bangladesh also has a well trained armed forces serving in UN peace-keeping operations.

Iranian aggressive effort for the last 36 years to unify their Shia Ummah have proved that if Sunni Muslims do not get unified in a similar effort with all the major countries then it will be difficult to counter Iran led Shia Ummah from establishing dominance over all of Mid-east. If and when Iran gets nukes, then it will become even more difficult to stop Iran from its ambitious goal. In a way, I am glad that Iran has been going in this direction, because if Iran did not start moving in this direction, then Sunni Muslims would not feel the need or urge to get unified. Because there is this threat of Iran led united Shia Ummah, it also presents an opportunity where all major Sunni countries can come together and hopefully form some kind of Sunni Muslim NATO of sorts for collective self defense, starting with the OICPKF effort. After setting up this collective NATO like entity, if we can provide security for all member states, only then it will be possible to develop our 1.2 billion population. Economic growth and developing a population into their full potential does not happen amid chaos. In such a scenario:

- Iran will forever be defeated against this alliance, remain subservient, cease meddling and pose no threat to Arab world
- Indonesia and Malaysia will fulfill their dream of creating a more integrated ASEAN perhaps with a future unified Korea as their close ally
- Pakistan and Bangladesh will no longer be bullied by India and will be able to get fair share of river water that have sources upstream in India
- Egypt will ensure its fair share of water for the Nile river

just to mention some of the myriad benefits

All of the above can happen under tacit understanding from the West as I believe the West may see some benefit in the formation of this alliance, specially reduction of extremism and terrorism. Like other powers they may not like to see a competitor emerge in world stage, but all powers of the world eventually will accept such ideas, because a united, peaceful and developed Sunni Muslim world is better than a terrorist infested chaotic fragmented hellhole like it is today.

With peace and stability in our countries, free from interference from external powers, we will then be able to concentrate on development, industrialization and advancement in science and technology. Instead of being just the Royal family of Saudi Arabia, with this direction, there is potential that Al Saud family will be able to become the main Royal family of the Sunni Ummah of 1.2 billion people, while the Royal families from UAE and Kuwait will be able to become the 2nd tier influential families for the Sunni Muslim Ummah, right after the Al Saud family. The potentials are unlimited if people in key places (and palaces?) understand the plus side and start moving in this direction with concrete steps. But it needs a comprehensive long term plan and strategy, not some panicky reactions and hasty acts like what we apparently see in Yemen.

Iran is serious about building up the Shia Ummah and I congratulate their effort in investing their time and resources in this effort. Gulf Arabs have the resources, but they need to understand that unless they are committed to the greater cause of building up the Sunni Ummah, the people in Sunni Ummah will not come forward with full commitment to shed their blood just as paid mercenaries to help Gulf Arabs in their time of need.Together we can make it happen Insha-Allah, but first the decision makers must make the right decisions:

You could name this thread 'Evil Shias: An introduction' and at least be straight about it.

To put it straight, if I gather all propaganda by ISIS, Taliban, Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups, sugarcoat them and pretend like it's written by an actual intellectual, something like this would come out.

An article so full of hypocrisy that neglects meddling of Arabs and 'Sunni countries' in various regional affairs that has led to hundreds of thousands of deaths, failing to mention the origins of the ideology that has been bulldozing Middle East, Africa and the whole world, a virus that has emerged in forms of ISIS, Al-Qaeda, TTP, LeJ, Boko Haram, Jabhat al-Nusraa and various other terrorist groups.

And none of your 'suggestions' will go out of this forum because if it did, Arabs would've stopped killing each other by now, ISIS would be non-existent and Al-Qaeda, Taliban, Boko Haram and LeJ would fail to recruit forces in mass because of their backwardness, but the exact opposite is true.

The fact that you think Yemen invasion is a 'success' shows that you can't see more than 1 meters ahead of you.

And btw, are you really suggesting to expel Iran from OIC? I hope at least they listen to this suggestion of yours, because a potato has more use than OIC as a huge organization in its current form.

Instead of dreaming of 'defeating Shias' day and night, (which is ironically the same thing groups like IS, AQ dream about), educate your population not to rush to these terrorist groups and that blowing up themselves among people in street will not take them to heaven. If you can achieve that, you have done the world and Muslims the biggest favor ever, because when the virus of terrorist groups like IS and AQ stops to spread, peace will naturally find its way.

Who is killing Egyptian soldiers today? 'Sunni' ISIS.
Who is killing Pakistani soldiers and civilians? 'Sunni' TTP and LeJ.
Who is killing Iraqi Sunnis right now? 'Sunni' ISIS.
Who is killing Yemenis in various suicide bombings and aerial attacks? 'Sunni' Al-Qaeda and 'Sunni' coalition.
Who is killing Libyans? 'Sunni' ISIS.
Who is slaughtering Nigerians and taking their women, children as slaves? 'Sunni' Boko Haram.
Who is massacring Afghan civilians every chance they get? 'Sunni' Taliban.
Who is bombing 'Sunni' Yemen? 'Sunni' coalition.


I used the name Sunni too many times, yeah I know, I did it because you have thing or two about the obsession on sects and failing to see the real reason of suffering and backwardness in Muslim world. Because you have adapted more 'balanced' views of groups like ISIS or TTP or Boko Haram, and it's only lead to huge suffering more and more. As long as you are obsessed with Shias, this will go on and on until you guys see the real reason behind ideological backwardness that gives potential to terrorist groups to mass recruit and grow exponentially.

 

[kalu_miah]

One of the best posts to date on PDF.

Well done @kalu_miah . You are by no means politically active are you? If not you should. I am sure that you would be able to get a position at the OIC or another international Muslim organization if you wanted and had the right credentials.

Something is differently going to happen sooner rather than later. Either by own initiative or due to geopolitical necessities.

Dear Brother, thanks for your confidence in my abilities. My political activity was limited to my expressing views and opinions on PDF and I have also stopped doing that for some time for various reasons. As for a position in OIC, it would be nice, specially if the circumstances are right as I mentioned in OP above. As for credentials, I think I have enough educational qualification (US degree from a reputed Univ.) and work experience in responsible positions.

At this critical juncture, mainly I felt the need to convey a message for those who can understand like yourself:
- that all of us in the Muslim world are watching what Iran is doing
- that we should look for a way out of this mess and
- what form and shape that way-out method can take

And I am glad that we can agree on the need for something like this.

 

[Sage]

Now @Irfan Baloch is gonna ban you How dare you wrote the truth @kalu_miah

 

[pak-marine]

 

[kalu_miah]

You could name this thread 'Evil Shias: An introduction' and at least be straight about it.

To put it straight, if I gather all propaganda by ISIS, Taliban, Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups, sugarcoat them and pretend like it's written by an actual intellectual, something like this would come out.

An article so full of hypocrisy that neglects meddling of Arabs and 'Sunni countries' in various regional affairs that has led to hundreds of thousands of deaths, failing to mention the origins of the ideology that has been bulldozing Middle East, Africa and the whole world, a virus that has emerged in forms of ISIS, Al-Qaeda, TTP, LeJ, Boko Haram, Jabhat al-Nusraa and various other terrorist groups.

And none of your 'suggestions' will go out of this forum because if it did, Arabs would've stopped killing each other by now, ISIS would be non-existent and Al-Qaeda, Taliban, Boko Haram and LeJ would fail to recruit forces in mass because of their backwardness, but the exact opposite is true.

The fact that you think Yemen invasion is a 'success' shows that you can't see more than 1 meters ahead of you.

And btw, are you really suggesting to expel Iran from OIC? I hope at least they listen to this suggestion of yours, because a potato has more use than OIC as a huge organization in its current form.

Instead of dreaming of 'defeating Shias' day and night, (which is ironically the same thing groups like IS, AQ dream about), educate your population not to rush to these terrorist groups and that blowing up themselves among people in street will not take them to heaven. If you can achieve that, you have done the world and Muslims the biggest favor ever, because when the virus of terrorist groups like IS and AQ stops to spread, peace will naturally find its way.

Who is killing Egyptian soldiers today? 'Sunni' ISIS.
Who is keeping Pakistani soldiers and civilians? 'Sunni' TTP and LeJ.
Who is killing Iraqi Sunnis right now? 'Sunni' ISIS.
Who is killing Yemenis in various suicide bombings and aerial attacks? 'Sunni' Al-Qaeda and 'Sunni' coalition.
Who is killing Libyans? 'Sunni' ISIS.
Who is slaughtering Nigerians and taking their women, children as slaves? 'Sunni' Boko Haram.
Who is massacring Afghan civilians every chance they get? 'Sunni' Taliban.
Who is bombing 'Sunni' Yemen? 'Sunni' coalition.


I used the name Sunni too many times, yeah I know, I did it because you have thing or two about the obsession on sects and failing to see the real reason of suffering and backwardness in Muslim world. Because you have adapted more 'balanced' views of groups like ISIS or TTP or Boko Haram, and it's only lead to huge suffering more and more. As long as you are obsessed with Shias, this will go on and on until you guys see the real reason behind ideological backwardness that gives potential to terrorist groups to mass recruit and grow exponentially.

If you have not noticed my message is not towards you, my "brother". The audience does not include you. Sorry if I have offended you with my words in any ways. I believe peoples and nations are free to choose who they will team up with, certainly you have made your choices, you should not be upset when others do the same.

 

[Serpentine]

If you have not noticed my message is not towards you, my "brother". The audience does not include you. Sorry if I have offended you with my words in any ways. I believe peoples and nations are free to choose who they will team up with, certainly you have made your choices, you should not be upset when others do the same.

I know this message was not for me, but that doesn't mean I'll not mention the hypocrisies in that message. And no, I'm
certainly not offended, but some points needed to be clear. I was straightforward about it as much as I could, so I hope I have not offended you either.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

tl;dr shias are wrong and sunnis are right. Because arabs are sunni and I am a slave to arabs.

Genius, there are more Shias in the Arab world than anywhere else. KSA alone is home to the 9th largest Shia community in the world. There are around 200 countries in the world. You do the math.

Shia Islam along with Sunni Islam, Sufism and everything else originated in the Arab world. Please tell me where Makkah, Madinah, Karbala and Najaf are located again?

Try harder next time.

Did you even bother to read his excellent post? He is spot on 100%. There is no sectarianism either. He criticizes terrorism, Al-Qaeda, Salafism etc.

What's your problem basically? That he criticized the "progressive" Mullah's of Iran that so many Indians seem to love (at least the few I have seen on PDF, I never visit your section) so much for God knows what reason?

 

[Cheetah786]

And now the Truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We need to understand what House of sauds Paid Mullah's have been doing since 1700, creating a Wahhabi Terrrosits for themselves, helping the Wahhabi in every place on earth in every way possible and turning them towards Dollar or Pound as their sole spiritual center. A few million population centered on an ideology controlled and developed inTel Aviv, backed by Arabian Oil Wealth stolen by House of saud and M16 , while Wahhabi majority oil rich state of Kuwait Jordan has teamed up with them. This is a significant force, that even the Peace loving world will find difficult to deal with. They are also spread out from India to Arabian peninsula. You can see from the PDF posts, a lot of Pakistani and Indian Muslim posters are Wahhabi and they support House of Saud overtly and covertly. Israel as a state somehow seems to be friendly to them, although they arent Muslims, perhaps because their strong relations with America. So is Fatah, out of gratitude from past help they received from House of saud and AL Qaeda.

In many Sunni countries Housr Of SAUD has been known to target Sunni Muslims to convert them to WAHHABI, I have heard about their activities in Malaysia, Indonesia and Sub-saharan Muslim countries like Nigeria, India & Pakistan, Afghanistan Iraq Syria Libya Yemen. In this respect, their activity is no different than aggressive targeting of Muslims for conversion by Talibichies.

 

[livingdead]

Genius, there are more Shias in the Arab world than anywhere else. KSA alone is home to the 9th largest Shia community in the world. There are around 200 countries in the world. You do the math.

Shia Islam along with Sunni Islam, Sufism and everything else originated in the Arab world. Please tell me where Makkah, Madinah, Karbala and Najaf are located again?

Try harder next time.

Did you even bother to read his excellent post? He is spot on 100%. There is no sectarianism either. He criticizes terrorism, Al-Qaeda, Salafism etc.

What's your problem basically?

thats what he always writes and then gets banned for sectarian views.. I stopped reading after 3rd para in which he claims shias are doing all wrong things.. even implying shias are doing taqqiah.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

thats what he always writes and then gets banned for sectarian views.. I stopped reading after 3rd para in which he claims shias are doing all wrong things.. even implying shias are doing taqqiah.

Mullah's of Iran and their few terrorist proxies with at most a few thousand members and then their cheerleaders do not equal 200 million Shia's. Likewise 2000 Al-Qaeda members worldwide, 15.000 or so ISIS members and 30.000 other so-called militant "Sunni Muslim groups" and there few million supporters do not equal the 1.4 BILLION or so Sunnis worldwide. In such a case you would see suicide bombers on every street each day all across the world. Even here in Europe.

No offense but the complexities of the ME is something that only local ME people, experts and Muslims from abroad that have studied the region closely for the past decades know about.

 

[Sage]

And now the Truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We need to understand what House of sauds Paid Mullah's have been doing since 1700, creating a Wahhabi Terrrosits for themselves, helping the Wahhabi in every place on earth in every way possible and turning them towards Dollar or Pound as their sole spiritual center. A few million population centered on an ideology controlled and developed inTel Aviv, backed by Arabian Oil Wealth stolen by House of saud and M16 , while Wahhabi majority oil rich state of Kuwait Jordan has teamed up with them. This is a significant force, that even the Peace loving world will find difficult to deal with. They are also spread out from India to Arabian peninsula. You can see from the PDF posts, a lot of Pakistani and Indian Muslim posters are Wahhabi and they support House of Saud overtly and covertly. Israel as a state somehow seems to be friendly to them, although they arent Muslims, perhaps because their strong relations with America. So is Fatah, out of gratitude from past help they received from House of saud and AL Qaeda.

This truth has no where any reference of Basij, Hizbullah, Ansarullah, TJP, ISO ...Contra Affair, How Iran invited US to Attack Afghanistan, who Iran invited US to invade Iraq ...How Syria was turned into a proxy state ? Who Lebanon was brought under control through Hizbullah and so on ....?

Mullah's of Iran and their few terrorist proxies with at most a few thousand members and then their cheerleaders do not equal 200 million Shia's. Likewise 2000 Al-Qaeda members worldwide, 15.000 or so ISIS members and 30.000 other so-called militant "Sunni Muslim groups" and there few million supporters do not equal the 1.4 BILLION or so Sunnis worldwide. In such a case you would see suicide bombers on every street each day all across the world. Even here in Europe.

No offense but the complexities of the ME is something that only local ME people, experts and Muslims from abroad that have studied the region closely for the past decades know about.

and ISIS is not a Sunni or Wahabi Phenomenon at all ....They may not be a threat to shia ...but they are sure a threat to Sunnis ....Al-Qadea on the other hand has an ideology which was honed in Afghanistan ....Decades ago than the emergence of Al-Qaeda ....Hizbullah was in a struggle to control Lebanon and Syria ...!

 

[livingdead]

Mullah's of Iran and their few terrorist proxies with at most a few thousand members and then their cheerleaders do not equal 200 million Shia's. Likewise 2000 Al-Qaeda members worldwide, 15.000 or so ISIS members and 30.000 other so-called militant "Sunni Muslim groups" and there few million supporters do not equal the 1.4 BILLION or so Sunnis worldwide. In such a case you would see suicide bombers on every street each day all across the world. Even here in Europe.

No offense but the complexities of the ME is something that only local ME people, experts and Muslims from abroad that have studied the region closely for the past decades know about.

you are putting words into my mouth, I never said anything you are suggesting.. I am simply saying based on his history I dont even need to read his whole post, its full of hatred against shias.
Oh btw, the 'expert' happens to be sunni himself.
As to subservient to arabs, there was an incident in which a bangladeshi was wronged in KSA, and this guy nearly apologized for mere existance of his people. Dig his old posts.

 

[Bornubus]

We need to understand what Iran's Mullah's have been doing since 1979, creating a Shia Ummah for themselves, helping the Shia in every place on earth in every way possible and turning them towards Qom as their sole spiritual center. A 200 million population centered on an ideology controlled and developed in Qom, backed by Iranian oil wealth and the Iranian state, while Shia majority oil rich state of Iraq has teamed up with them. This is a significant force, that even the Arab world in a united Arab League will find difficult to deal with. They are also spread out from India to Arabian peninsula. You can see from the PDF posts, a lot of Pakistani and Indian Muslim posters are Shia and they support Iran overtly and covertly. Algeria as a state somehow seems to be friendly to them, although they are Sunni Muslims, perhaps because their strong relations with Russia. So is Hamas, out of gratitude from past help they received from Iran and Hezb.

In many Sunni countries Iran has been known to target Sunni Muslims to convert them to Shi'ism, I have heard about their activities in Malaysia, Indonesia and Sub-saharan Muslim countries like Nigeria. In this respect, their activity is no different than aggressive targeting of Muslims for conversion by Christian evangelists.
Joshua Project

Since the difference between Shia and Sunni goes back to the beginning of Islam and since the difference has not been resolved yet in 1400 years and since many Shia's consider Sunni's to be deviant and consider only Shia to be true Muslims as is evident from their effort to convert and create their own exclusive Shia Ummah, then I think we can safely say that Shia and Sunni do not follow the same religion. Ironically both Shia and Sunni like to call themselves the only true Muslim. So those of us who say there is fighting between two Muslim peoples, this is sheer deception and Taqiyah, because these are not same peoples.

Because of this difference and because of their recent aggression against Sunni Muslims, OIC should consider expelling Iran and suspending memberships of Iraq and Lebanon as all 3 states are currently controlled by Shia govt. or militia. After that move, the OIC should ban Shia people and states who are engaged in active aggression against Sunni Muslims from holding Hajj in Mecca and Medina and refuse them entry to these holy sites of Islam. Lets put the money where your mouth is and show some spine for a change please.

Iran will remain under Mullah control for the foreseeable future, because of IRGC and Basij both of which are creation of the Mullah govt. that arose during Iran-Iraq war. And this means that Qom centric Shia Ummah consolidation will continue for the foreseeable future. Basij together with IRGC essentially runs Iran, while the Mullah's have become their mouthpiece. Together they have more than 200k full time, 300k reserve and more than a million armed members who can join as a fighting force as and when needed. In addition to these forces they have now access to Hezb, Houthi, Iraqi militia and even Hazara from Afghanistan.
Basij - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those of us who were here previously may recall, after ISIS emerged on the scene, I was upset about GCC govt. policies, because for long I have been posting comments to exercise caution about funds that are flowing to extremists fighting Assad. These funds obviously went not from govts but from private individuals, but govts failed to stop this flow of funds. To counter the rise of extremist rebels, I was proposing an OICPKF to tackle Assad and other Iranian proxies head on, which could be set up in an initiative led by the GCC govts.
OIC Peace Keeping Force for maintaining peace in majority Muslim countries

I was also upset because GCC govts believed and depended too much on the US in the Syrian conflict (hiding under the skirt of the US?), who turned out to be unreliable in the end, thanks specially to Obama. As I suspected, most people in the West has the attitude that "let these barbarian Muslim retards exterminate each other, it will be better for the world. Only good Muslim is a ....", so the govts. in the West with their inaction simply followed the opinion of their masses. GCC govts wrong decision to believe and to depend on the West, was a blunder which Iran and Iran's proxy Assad took full advantage of. Iran and Assad combined strategy always has been to provide space for and facilitate the growth of Sunni extremism, so they can eventually turn anti-West and then Iran and Assad will then join together with the West to destroy the Frankenstein monster. GCC govts could not foresee this game in the early stages of the anti-Assad rebellion and played right into this trap the Iranians and Assad set for them.

To be fair it is not just people in the West who feel ok with Muslims exterminating each other. I am afraid that a large cross section of population in China, India and Russia, have similar views about Muslims, specially Sunni Muslims, who are prone to irrational bouts of extremism and violence, thanks in large part to different variants of Salafi doctrine and its ability to turn normal mainstream Sunni Muslims into violent irrational extremists. Also it is because no one wants competition in their turf and Sunni Muslims, because of their current and future size (1.2 billion in just Sunni majority countries) if they become more united, can become an independent world power of sorts and a competitor, whereas the Shia, due to their smaller size will always remain dependent on their benefactors, like Russia and to some extent China.

Also, I was urging for a Global Fiqh Center (GFC) for Sunni Muslims to resolve the differences between different Madhabs and bring them closer together. This GFC then could easily declare the deviant extremists as outside the fold of Islam and thus expose, debunk and delegitimize their false claim among common Sunni Muslims, that they are supposedly following THE true path of Islam while committing War Crimes at the same time, violating basic Islamic laws:
How to stop Islamic extremism: Global Fiqh Council (GFC)
International Islamic Fiqh Academy, Jeddah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jeddah based OIC fiqh academy could be turned into this GFC and Saudi and other Arab Islamic scholars (Ulema) could lead this effort to reach a global consensus with other Ulema from all parts of the Sunni Muslim world. We must recognize that Salafism as a doctrine in its current form has proved to be a failure in promoting peace and development in Muslim societies and foster unity among the diverse Sunni Muslim community of different nationalities spread across Asia and Africa. We need to come up with a better alternative that will be acceptable to 1.4 billion Sunni Muslims of the world and which will also be good for unity, progress, development and tolerance among Muslim societies. Tolerance however does not mean that we need to keep lying down and become slaves of the Shia, but to become powerful we need to unify and consolidate the Sunni Muslim community of the world and keep them away from violent irrational extremism.

After the rise of Houthi's, His Royal Highness King Salman has made an excellent move to initiate attack on Iran's Houthi proxy in Yemen. Also a unified Arab force is an excellent move in the right direction. The decision to invite and include Turkey and Pakistan in this coalition is also great. But note that Turkey being a NATO member cannot directly participate at this stage, so their support will be limited to intelligence, logistics and perhaps equipment supply. Pakistan is also hesitant to get involved. Please note here that both Turkey and Pakistan, although they are Sunni majority, they have size-able Shia population, which is at least 10-15%. Specially in Pakistan Shia are highly educated, organized and influential. Some say they are 30% in the Army. The consensus I see in PDF is that Pakistan will help KSA defensively but not take part in any offensive operation outside KSA borders.

I believe KSA strategists also need to approach the other 3 major Sunni Muslim countries of the world, which are Indonesia, Malaysia and Bangladesh. If non-Arab countries like Turkey and Pakistan can get involved, there is no reason to exclude these 3 countries, especially so because these countries have practically no significant Shia population from historical times in the past till today. So even if they become involved in offensive war in Yemen or Syria or Iraq, there is not much opportunity for Iran to retaliate against these 3 countries using their internal minuscule Shia population as their 5th column proxies Also these 3 countries do not border with Iran and have no significant economic relations with Iran..Indonesia, the largest Muslim country, has a size-able armed forces and experienced personnel. Bangladesh also has a well trained armed forces serving in UN peace-keeping operations.

Iranian aggressive effort for the last 36 years to unify their Shia Ummah have proved that if Sunni Muslims do not get unified in a similar effort with all the major countries then it will be difficult to counter Iran led Shia Ummah from establishing dominance over all of Mid-east. If and when Iran gets nukes, then it will become even more difficult to stop Iran from its ambitious goal. In a way, I am glad that Iran has been going in this direction, because if Iran did not start moving in this direction, then Sunni Muslims would not feel the need or urge to get unified. Because there is this threat of Iran led united Shia Ummah, it also presents an opportunity where all major Sunni countries can come together and hopefully form some kind of Sunni Muslim NATO of sorts for collective self defense, starting with the OICPKF effort. After setting up this collective NATO like entity, if we can provide security for all member states, only then it will be possible to develop our 1.2 billion population. Economic growth and developing a population into their full potential does not happen amid chaos. In such a scenario:

- Iran will forever be defeated against this alliance, remain subservient, cease meddling and pose no threat to Arab world
- Indonesia and Malaysia will fulfill their dream of creating a more integrated ASEAN perhaps with a future unified Korea as their close ally
- Pakistan and Bangladesh will no longer be bullied by India and will be able to get fair share of river water that have sources upstream in India
- Egypt will ensure its fair share of water for the Nile river

just to mention some of the myriad benefits

All of the above can happen under tacit understanding from the West as I believe the West may see some benefit in the formation of this alliance, specially reduction of extremism and terrorism. Like other powers they may not like to see a competitor emerge in world stage, but all powers of the world eventually will accept such ideas, because a united, peaceful and developed Sunni Muslim world is better than a terrorist infested chaotic fragmented hellhole like it is today.

With peace and stability in our countries, free from interference from external powers, we will then be able to concentrate on development, industrialization and advancement in science and technology. Instead of being just the Royal family of Saudi Arabia, with this direction, there is potential that Al Saud family will be able to become the main Royal family of the Sunni Ummah of 1.2 billion people, while the Royal families from UAE and Kuwait will be able to become the 2nd tier influential families for the Sunni Muslim Ummah, right after the Al Saud family. The potentials are unlimited if people in key places (and palaces?) understand the plus side and start moving in this direction with concrete steps. But it needs a comprehensive long term plan and strategy, not some panicky reactions and hasty acts like what we apparently see in Yemen.

Iran is serious about building up the Shia Ummah and I congratulate their effort in investing their time and resources in this effort. Gulf Arabs have the resources, but they need to understand that unless they are committed to the greater cause of building up the Sunni Ummah, the people in Sunni Ummah will not come forward with full commitment to shed their blood just as paid mercenaries to help Gulf Arabs in their time of need.Together we can make it happen Insha-Allah, but first the decision makers must make the right decisions:

As you mentioned India as a bully in your bigoted article which puts ? Mark on the modern concept of nation states how exactly your proposed union would end the hawkish attitude of India ....considering the fact that 180 million muslims lives in India making them 14.2% of our population.