Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

[he-man]

These newbie kids come on PDF without basic knowledge, I doubt he even knows that even Israel buys it's composites for its UAV's from India.

I refuse to believe that we manufacture better composites than russia.........plain and simple,,,,,,they use extensive titanium for strength purposes and for achieving their target of mach 2.25

Before 2010 it was reported that LCA project is very weight-conscious, so I am not surprised by the wide usage of composite materials. Can you explain the 40% or 70% number is by weight, by surface area, or by volume?

mk2 is not even out and ppl are showing fan boyism already..........this should stop

 

[he-man]

Guys, based on this photo the front weapon bay can hold one big long range AAM but I would guess it is too small for two mid range AAMs. What do you think?

this is a monstrous anti radar missile Kh-58ushe with a range of 245 km and speed of mach 4 and weight of 1400 pounds!!!

 

[Yeti]

At the HAL - Composite Manufacturing Division, we work on cutting edge composite technologies and aggressive timelines, which needs every person to be not just responsible, but also passionate and knowledgeable. We were facing a ramp-up lag in our Tool Design Group when Tata HAL Technologies stepped in. Their team not only displayed the requisite expertise, but also got completely integrated into the CMD group. It brought us the much needed timeliness and value add to the Tool Design Group."


This is the model for success in growing our domestic defence industry a joint collaboration between state firms and private ones will ensure the future is bright.

 

[SR-91]

Before 2010 it was reported that LCA project is very weight-conscious, so I am not surprised by the wide usage of composite materials. Can you explain the 40% or 70% number is by weight, by surface area, or by volume?

Its by weight.

 

[he-man]

At the HAL - Composite Manufacturing Division, we work on cutting edge composite technologies and aggressive timelines, which needs every person to be not just responsible, but also passionate and knowledgeable. We were facing a ramp-up lag in our Tool Design Group when Tata HAL Technologies stepped in. Their team not only displayed the requisite expertise, but also got completely integrated into the CMD group. It brought us the much needed timeliness and value add to the Tool Design Group."


This is the model for success in growing our domestic defence industry a joint collaboration between state firms and private ones will ensure the future is bright.

Yes it all sounds good but do u believe we have surpassed russia in this field??i agree i have no knowledge of this field but all the other forums are laughing at HAL's supposedely outrageous claim that pakfa is all metal and they will make a better,more powerful version!!

Its by weight.

pls wait till mk 2 comes out............by the way at mach 2.25 u need a lot of metal too in key structural areas and composites might not take the wear and tear..........if that was not the case,why did russia not put more composites??any answers?

 

[Yeti]

I refuse to believe that we manufacture better composites than russia.........plain and simple,,,,,,they use extensive titanium for strength purposes and for achieving their target of mach 2.25



mk2 is not even out and ppl are showing fan boyism already..........this should stop

My friend we have firms like TATA now helping HAL in various manufacturing techniques this will increase our engineering skills going forward.

Have a look at this on what firms like TATA is doing


Tata Steel builds bid for world speed record - Journal Live

 

[he-man]

My friend we have firms like TATA now helping HAL in various manufacturing techniques this will increase our engineering skills going forward.

Have a look at this on what firms like TATA is doing


Tata Steel builds bid for world speed record - Journal Live

Yaar my question is very simple

If this was the case and pakfa or fgfa is a jv then why did russians not use superior materials for a plane they are going to use??

I mean for a nation capable of building aero engines it just dosen't seem plausible that they are behind us in composites!!

 

[Yeti]

@he-man a 5th gen fighter like the PAK-FA can never be all metal it will contain composites and that video posted by that Russian fellow I have seen before. Sukhoi as a company was formed before India as a country came into being, we Indians are among the smartest people on this planet bar none but why is it we tend to do better in the west and not in India as much? that is the key question which needs to be fixed by our govt babus


BTW it is interesting to note that a Indian-born engineer who worked on the engine design for the B-2 bomber for Northrop sold military secrets for money to the Chinese this shows we are skilled but... as all humans we are flawed too

 

[he-man]

@he-man a 5th gen fighter like the PAK-FA can never be all metal it will contain composites and that video posted by that Russian fellow I have seen before. Sukhoi as a company was formed before India as a country came into being, we Indians are among the smartest people on this planet bar none but why is it we tend to do better in the west and not in India as much? that is the key question which needs to be fixed by our govt babus


BTW it is interesting to note that a Indian-born engineer who worked on the engine design for the B-2 bomber for Northrop sold military secrets for money to the Chinese this shows we are skilled but... as all humans we are flawed too
@he-man a 5th gen fighter like the PAK-FA can never be all metal it will contain composites and that video posted by that Russian fellow I have seen before. Sukhoi as a company was formed before India as a country came into being, we Indians are among the smartest people on this planet bar none but why is it we tend to do better in the west and not in India as much? that is the key question which needs to be fixed by our govt babus


BTW it is interesting to note that a Indian-born engineer who worked on the engine design for the B-2 bomber for Northrop sold military secrets for money to the Chinese this shows we are skilled but... as all humans we are flawed too

I know 25% of pakfa by weight is composites.............i am saying they know what to do(we are talking about sukhoi here!!!)

And the problem is that HAL employee in the article says that pakfa is all metal!!

 

[Yeti]

Yaar my question is very simple

If this was the case and pakfa or fgfa is a jv then why did russians not use superior materials for a plane they are going to use??

I mean for a nation capable of building aero engines it just dosen't seem plausible that they are behind us in composites!!

Composites and jet engines are entirely different things, they can not be compared. I am not saying Russia is behind us or we are ahead but we do have a advanced composite industry and we can make a vital contribution to this field for our version of the PAK-FA.

BTW how do u know that we do not have some composite materials that the Russians do not and vice versa

 

[he-man]

Composites and jet engines are entirely different things, they can not be compared. I am not saying Russia is behind us or we are ahead but we do have a advanced composite industry and we can make a vital contribution to this field for our version of the PAK-FA.

BTW how do u know that we do not have some composite materials that the Russians do not and vice versa

No one can claim anything here but the general feeling tells me we are not at that level yet...............they are making bodies of commercial airliners like sukhoi superjet 100!!What have we done?tejas??

 

[Yeti]

No one can claim anything here but the general feeling tells me we are not at that level yet...............they are making bodies of commercial airliners like sukhoi superjet 100!!What have we done?tejas??

Sir HAL is also doing that


Boeing, HAL Sign Agreement for 777 Flaperon Assembly


NEW DELHI, October 22, 2009 - Boeing [NYSE: BA] and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) of India today signed an agreement at a ceremony here for the production of flaperons for use on Boeing’s 777 series commercial jetliner. The work will be performed in Bangalore, India.

The 777 flaperons are a highly complex composite assembly that is instrumental in controlling the airplane’s maneuverability in flight. Referred to as a "control surface", flaperons work both as an aileron to control roll and as a flap to control lift.
"Today’s agreement represents yet another work package Boeing has placed in India and HAL since we first began our relationship with HAL in 1991, and after having received the first production part from HAL in 1995," said Boeing India President Dinesh Keskar. "The composite 777 flaperon that HAL will produce represents a significant leap forward in technological capability, and supports Boeing’s strategy to work in partnership with India’s aerospace industry for the long-term."

BTW Sukhoi got help for that jet too, by the Americans. Everyone can contribute something that's what makes this Indo-Russian project great! we will gain much needed skills from such a huge aero-engineering project like this.

 

[he-man]

Sir HAL is also doing that


Boeing, HAL Sign Agreement for 777 Flaperon Assembly


NEW DELHI, October 22, 2009 - Boeing [NYSE: BA] and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) of India today signed an agreement at a ceremony here for the production of flaperons for use on Boeing’s 777 series commercial jetliner. The work will be performed in Bangalore, India.

The 777 flaperons are a highly complex composite assembly that is instrumental in controlling the airplane’s maneuverability in flight. Referred to as a "control surface", flaperons work both as an aileron to control roll and as a flap to control lift.
"Today’s agreement represents yet another work package Boeing has placed in India and HAL since we first began our relationship with HAL in 1991, and after having received the first production part from HAL in 1995," said Boeing India President Dinesh Keskar. "The composite 777 flaperon that HAL will produce represents a significant leap forward in technological capability, and supports Boeing’s strategy to work in partnership with India’s aerospace industry for the long-term."

BTW Sukhoi got help for that jet too, by the Americans. Everyone can contribute something that's what makes this Indo-Russian project great! we will gain much needed skills from such a huge aero-engineering project like this.

Sure we are building bits and pieces but they are making the whole planes...........no comparison here mate,,,,,pls give credit when its due,indians are behaving very arrogantly with russia off late by claiming all these unsubstantiated things.

And pls do look at the russian aerospace industry too before reading about HAL achievements.

Iam not taking sides but we are clearly way behind them

I do agree that HAL should get a chance to add whatever it feels like,,,,but it should refrain from making tall claims.

 

[Yeti]

Sure we are building bits and pieces but they are making the whole planes...........no comparison here mate,,,,,pls give credit when its due,indians are behaving very arrogantly with russia off late by claiming all these unsubstantiated things.

And pls do look at the russian aerospace industry too before reading about HAL achievements.

Iam not taking sides but we are clearly way behind them

I do agree that HAL should get a chance to add whatever it feels like,,,,but it should refrain from making tall claims.

With the help of others yes, Boeing helped them with the design of Sukhoi Superjet 100 and like I mentioned before Sukhoi has been around before India as a country was founded of course the Russians will be ahead but that does not mean we can not make contributions also that was the point I was making.

 

[Gessler]

It's likely FGFA will turn out to have more composite percentage in airframe when compared to
present-day T-50, but even that is hard to say given the fact the composition of materials seems
to be changing with each T-50 prototype, and the final series-production configuration is not yet
known.

However, eventhough India has done quite a lot with composites even with our first fighter, we still
have a long way to go before we arrive at the level of expertise as Russians in this field.

Believe it or not, much of the know-how and know-why regarding composites were given to
India by none other than Russians and to an extent, Italians.