Su-57. Best combat plane ever built?

[gambit]

F-35 don't have HUD.

The F-35 does have a HUD, but not in the way you think. See if you can understand what is it.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

The F-35 does have a HUD, but not in the way you think. See if you can understand what is it.

It's a HMD, not a HUD.

 

[XTQ1999]

Nope. F-22 is early to mid 90s design. Su-57 has 4 faced AESA. Far more capable.

Lol, F-22 is still the stealthiest fighter ever built, having 4 AESA radars doesn't mean much if the other aircraft can still see you far earlier.

 

[Super Falcon]

And if it,s not even meeting indian standards then how come its the greatest aircraft built by humanity

We know what are indian standards 30 years still in progresss tejas

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Lol, F-22 is still the stealthiest fighter ever built, having 4 AESA radars doesn't mean much if the other aircraft can still see you far earlier.

Seeing first does not mean advantage. F-22 AMRAAM range only about 100 km. Su-57 has R-37 air to air missile range 400+ km and has Kh-59MK2 air to ground missile range 500+ km. The airfields and aerial tankers are always the first targets. F-22 has no way to engage Su-57 from such long stand off distances.

 

[XTQ1999]

Seeing first does not mean advantage. F-22 AMRAAM range only about 100 km. Su-57 has R-37 air to air missile range 400+ km and has Kh-59MK2 air to ground missile range 500+ km. The airfields and aerial tankers are always the first targets. F-22 has no way to engage Su-57 from such long stand off distances.

nope, AIM-120D has a range of 190+ kms, that is actually the longest ranged BVR missile for fighter sized targets. Actually Su-57 doesn't have R-37, R-37 has been currently integrated only on Su-35S and MiG-31, there is speculation that Izdeliye 810 is an equivalent, but is still in development stage only. R-37 is also only designed against large aircraft, such as AWACS and Refueling Aircraft, it doesn't have the capability to target fighter sized targets at ranges of 400kms, not to mention you will not see F-22 at 100kms, let alone 400kms on your radar, and cannot simply blindly fire a missile towards the general direction. The range of Kh-59MK2 is only speculation, with range of 290kms being reported at MAKS 2015. F-22 doesn't really need cruise missiles, because Air Force, Navy and Marines already have thousands of aircraft capable of launching hundreds upon hundreds cruise missiles.

 

[ptldM3]

DAS is neither crap nor a marketing gimmick. Might as well call the HUD a marketing gimmick.

At the high level, yes, DAS is a situational awareness suite, but what impressed pilots is transparency of the integration of the various sensors information into a coherent and presentable format. At the high level , the pilot himself is nothing more than a situational awareness suite, and yet, pilots welcome any form of assistance to the decision making process. Try selling a jet fighter without a HUD and see how many takers.

I never called the DAS crap. I responded to a fanboy that often mentions the system in his arguments as some mystical system that no one else has that gives the F-35 a decisive advantage despite him knowing squat about aircraft such as the SU-57 that he deems inferior. The DAS is a system that combines situational awareness into a neat package, the concept is not new. The SU-57 also uses electo-optical systems in the SU-57 for 360 degree situational awareness, which included DIRCM, IRST, etc. hence when he mentioned the DAS my reaction was 'not this crap again" meaning the repetitive argument.


We are all here to enjoy, learn, share information and argue constructively; many people like to argue about the SU-57 without actually knowing anything about it. It's capabilities are often downplayed or ignored. The little informal that comes out about the aircraft demonstrates that it is extremely advanced and unique in many ways:


For anyone interested:

http://aviation21.ru/viktor-bondarev-eksperty-prichislyayut-su-57-k-pokoleniyu-5/


Victor Bondarev: It gives them almost unlimited possibilities in piloting in battle. This is due to the high level of robotization: the Su-57 is equipped with a full-fledged "electronic pilot." He can also prompt a person the right decision under time pressure and take on a large number of routine operations.

A fighter can fight alone and within the framework of the “single field” concept. Su-57 is able to transmit data on targets to other aircrafts and ground air defense systems, as well as receive target designation from them. The on-board control system can track up to 60 targets, simultaneously firing 16 of them.

 

[gambit]

I never called the DAS crap.

...hence when he mentioned the DAS my reaction was 'not this crap again" meaning the repetitive argument.

Fair enough.

The DAS is a system that combines situational awareness into a neat package, the concept is not new.

The concept may not be new, but the execution of it -- made the F-35 exceptional.

You can conceptualize anything you want, but the final product have to pass operator's review in the field. To use the coordinated turn as example. In basic flight lessons after ground school, the pilot has to use all his senses (not sensors) to gauge aircraft's responses and movement, as he pulls back on the yoke/stick and depress the rudder pedals. Everything has to -- coordinate. Hence, the 'coordinated turn'. Today, the flight control system does that for you. All you have to do is bank and pull back on the yoke/stick and the flight controls system will actuate the rudder.

What the F-35 DAS does is coordinate the output of various sensors and display it in a manner that has minimal to no switchology from the pilot. DAS replaced the WSO on my F-111, the WSO on the F-15E, the RIO on the F-14, and the entire support crew on the AE-6. The F-35 DAS does it in ways no other fighter could, if we take the testimonies of pilots -- US and foreign - seriously.

 

[LeGenD]

I responded to a fanboy that often mentions the system in his arguments as some mystical system that no one else has that gives the F-35 a decisive advantage despite him knowing squat about aircraft such as the SU-57 that he deems inferior.

Fanboy? You have comprehension problems, Russian fanboy. Everybody know you are one.

Unlike you, I see in each product a mix of qualities that define them and limitations. Your arguments are the epitome of Everything Russian Best Ever - only problem is that they fail to live up to their hype when it matters the most just like S-400 in Syria and numerous Russian aircraft in various conflicts since 1980.

Perhaps SU-57 does not need refueling, can circle planet Earth seven times in a row, shoot lasers, launch ICBM, and capture the Death Star.

No need to project your insecurities on me or any other member. Your posts are often filled with so much cringe at times that people feel discouraged to respond to them.

 

[ptldM3]

Fanboy? You have comprehension problems, Russian fanboy. Everybody know you are one.

This is ironic coming from you. All you ever do is make dubious claims of how American technology is the best , which I never denied how great it may be but i look at things in perspective. Never do i claim anything is the best but rather I look at were some equivalent exelles over other equipment. Besides no one even knows the true capabilities of anything other then the Chief engineers yet it is you that makes wild claims in which you wholeheartedly claim so and so is better. It's funny though how you patronize me, i actually worked on military projects including unmanned ocean going drones but you know best and I'm "cringe".


Moving on to the point, i never claimed the SU-57 or any Russian technology is really the "best", I debate people like you that may call the SU-57 'failed' or 'trash' or 'substandard'. I will present an argument where I can factually prove how something, in this case the SU-57, is better then the F-35 in some areas, but people like you get worked up, appearently you know best and I'm cringe because apparently I need to except your opinions about the SU-57 as facts even though you have shown you know next to zero about the aircraft.

Unlike you, I see in each product a mix of qualities that define them and limitations. Your arguments are the epitome of Everything Russian Best Ever - only problem is that they fail to live up to their hype when it matters the most just like S-400 in Syria and numerous Russian aircraft in various conflicts since 1980.

Spare everyone the act of being subjective. You could not even admit the simple fact that the SU-57 has advanced avionics and unique features that may be decisive in battle. When I mentioned some of those features and advantages your response was basically, 'it doesn't mater in combat, it's a twin engine platform, so you're not being fair', the F-35 had DAS, F-35 has better survivability.'

As for S400. The S-400 never fired at anything over Syria, it never even tried. As for Russia aircraft in various conflicts. Your argument is stale, It would be like Russians bragging about shooting down American aircraft if they ever incountered Iranian F-4s with modern Sukhos. In any case stop deviating from the subject.

Perhaps SU-57 does not need refueling, can circle planet Earth seven times in a row, shoot lasers, launch ICBM, and capture the Death Star.

No need to project your insecurities on me or any other member. Your posts are often filled with so much cringe at times that people feel discouraged to respond to them.

Says the guy that repeats the same, nothingburger about DAS and the S-400 and shows an utter lack of any understanding about anything about the SU-57 but feels the need to act like an authority on the aircraft.


So you actually want to debate, rebuke or disprove anything I said? So far you have been quite, you tried to save face after I dismantled your talking points, which were frankly, an ignorant display where you started ranting about the SU-57 not being "survivable" (as usual you presented no proof) you then started a cringe fest about single engines platforms versus twin engine platforms which was a desperate attemp to justify why the F-35 laggs behind the SU-57 in certain areas.


I will put it on the record and say it again, there is no best fighter. I am sure the F-35 can do things better then the SU-57, on the other hand the SU-57 can do things better then the F-35. The SU-57 was built for the Russian Air Force and their unique requirements. My original response was to an Indian member that claimed the SU-57 failed requirements. My response was that the SU-57 is as good as it comes when it gets when it comes to strike missions, range and maneuverability and that is not bragging but the truth and in the public domain. You can't find an aircraft that combines all of those traits and do it that well. If you want to have a civil conversation, a fair conversation and a conversation with supporting evidence I am always up for it but do not take my conversations out of context or put words in my mouth and claim I said Russian equipment is simply the best. I have always cautioned that there is no such thing as the best and I explained why.


The best survivability is mission planning and training, aircraft should always utilize gaps in radar coverage, jamming assets and a host of other factors before just going into a mission. With that said the SU-57s has a significant reduction in RCS, and an electric warfare system with various optical-electric suits that detect and eliminate threats, it is equipped with long range standoff weapons such as the KH-59 cruise missile. If it needs it can perform evasive maneuvers and has a significant IR reduction. It has 360 degrees situational awareness and has the ability to share and receive information with other aircraft and ground stations. It's radar can manage detecting 60 aerial targets while engaging 16 simultaneously. It was built with experience gains over decades of wars, including recent conflicts. It took experiences learned from other aircraft and had input from Russia's most elite and experienced pilots, such as Bogdan.

I think it can hold its own quite well in survivability despite your negative and opinions which are worthless.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

not to mention you will not see F-22 at 100kms, let alone 400kms on your radar,

No one knows that for sure. Sure, LM claims F-22 has the RCS of a fly, but they refuse to prove that. Which casts doubt on their claim. Who knows. Could all be a gimmick. One thing is for sure. F-22, despite all the stealth touted by LM, lacks Star Trek and Predator cloaking technology which is plasma stealth. Without plasma stealth F-22 is always visible in the visible spectrum and IR spectrum at the very least. That is proven. Whether F-22 is stealth in the X radio spectrum is a claim, an unproven claim, an unsubstantiated claim. If I were an F-22 pilot I would not bet my life on LM's claim.

See F-22 IR signature? It's massive. Not to mention people can see F-22 because it does not reduce it's visible light signature either.

. The F-35 DAS does it in ways no other fighter could, if we take the testimonies of pilots -- US and foreign - seriously.

There's nothing special about DAS. It's a fancy term for IRST.

 

[delta2]

The Breen had really nice ships

Ikr!!!

The Federation would have been in trouble had the Been been a little more tolerant and had built more long lasting alliances. But as the saying goes in the Alpha Quadrant, "Never turn your back towards a Been."

 

[Lucky Breeze]

Humanity is now associated with killing machines.

 

[XTQ1999]

See F-22 IR signature? It's massive. Not to mention people can see F-22 because it does not reduce it's visible light signature either.

.

and? IRST does not provide accurate targeting until a very close range by which F-22 with its internal payload of 6 AIM-120Ds will have no problem dealing with. The fact is F-22 will remain the stealthiest aircraft the humanity has ever built until US reveals its 6th gen fighters. It really points out how advanced US is, when the closest rivals can't even come close to the level of technology of a fighter from the 90s. Another fact is, there are 187 operational F-22, Russia cannot even afford its new Su-57, and has continuously reduced its expected orders, at the end of the day, Russian air force will comprise mostly of 4+ gen aircraft, which will have absolutely 0 chance of surviving against thousands of F-22s and F-35s.