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Su-57. Best combat plane ever built?

Su-57 is not for export. If Indians want to build a plane just as good, then they build themselves.
They already producing Tejas 4.5+++ jet, DRDO & HALL quite capable in producing jets....Just with in 40 years they flew Tejas but still in crawling position :lol:
 
.Just with in 40 years they flew Tejas but still in crawling position :lol:

That's right. Without engine a plane is nothing. There is no one in the world you can depend on other than yourself.

Troll thread. Nothing more. The Su-57 maybe a great design with features desirable by many air forces, but the program failed to live up to expectations, which were set by the Americans, like it or not.

Keep calm and be delusional.
 
Yea, I'm positive about that unless aircraft like the F-35 suddenly somehow had its range increased, or somehow now holds cruise missiles internally that allows 300km standoff range or somehow now has super cruise or somehow now has thrust vectoring engines and an all around better maneuverability. All those things I mentioned are clearly advantages in favor of the SU-57.
Your argument revolve around conventional trade-offs between single-engine design and twin-engine design. Conventional benefits of twin-engine design are good for bragging in an online discussion but survivability is increasingly important in a modern battlespace.

F-15C is twin-engine design and is renowned for its performance in combat operations, super cruise potential, thrust vectoring, range, payload capacity and maneuverability - usual stuff for bragging in discussions.

Yet:-

"A former F-15C instructor pilot said he consistently beat his former jet in mock dogfights." - The National Interest

F-15C > F-35 in several aspects much like SU-57 (your argument) but F-35 will make short work of F-15C in a battlespace because F-35 is superior in aspects which will make difference in the face of emerging realities - aspects which cannot be explained with some ACRONYMS (my argument). This reality does not bode well for SU-57 either because Russians are thinking short-term. Nevertheless, A for effort.

By the way:

image


FYI: https://www.defensenews.com/digital...andoff-weapon-integrated-into-the-navys-f-35/

The kind of comparisons you tend to draw in regards to aircraft, do not advance the argument that SU-57 is the best aircraft ever built. Not even close.

No product is the endgame in itself; it is important to concentrate on the design philosophy of each product and where it would fit in the grand scheme of things. To the Americans; F-22 and F-35 fulfill their requirements in combination. F-22 represent the best of American stealth in twin-engine design category - it will take care of spaces where F-35 will fall short. There is no such thing as the best aircraft ever built.

As for sensor capabilities that are "unmatched" you know nothing about the SU-57 or its capabilities so that statement is intellectually dishonest and blatantly naive. It's "stealth" is so far unknown but simple physical optics simulations from various sources demonstrate the aircraft has comparable RCS in some angles to its contemporary rivals.
I know nothing? As if information is not available on the web? And you have tested SU-57, F-35 and F-22 in person or something?

I just pointed out to you that SU-57 does not have DAS which is an important characteristic of F-35 (DAS is not just a component but something really big - a design philosophy which will revolutionize combat operations in the years to come). I can draw additional comparisons for you, to let you know where else SU-57 falls short in comparison to F-35 alone, and I have yet to start with F-22.

Your attempt to sell SU-57 as a superior aircraft to F-35 and F-22 on the whole - is not going to fly. Just admire the bird for what it is.
 
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could be better than F-35 but definitely not better than F-22 Raptor , people doesn't even know the full capability of F-22 to begin with @gambit
 
so when canada is ready to buy this magnificent su 57??

Canada and Russia enemies. Russia will never sell to Canada.

No product is the endgame in itself; it is important to concentrate on the design philosophy of each product and where it would fit in the grand scheme of things. To the Americans; F-22 and F-35 fulfill their requirements in combination. F-22 represent the best of American stealth in twin-engine design category - it will take care of spaces where F-35 will fall short. There is no such thing as the best aircraft ever built.

Su-57 is best combat plane built to date. Anyone who say otherwise is delusional.
 
Yea, I'm positive about that unless aircraft like the F-35 suddenly somehow had its range increased, or somehow now holds cruise missiles internally that allows 300km standoff range or somehow now has super cruise or somehow now has thrust vectoring engines and an all around better maneuverability. All those things I mentioned are clearly advantages in favor of the SU-57.


As for sensor capabilities that are "unmatched" you know nothing about the SU-57 or its capabilities so that statement is intellectually dishonest and blatantly naive. It's "stealth" is so far unknown but simple physical optics simulations from various sources demonstrate the aircraft has comparable RCS in some angles to its contemporary rivals.









The SU-57 is not the F-35 and is in fact considered far superior in maneuverability to the F-35. F-16 vs F-35 were most likely WVR combat. You are again missing the point, a good pilot alone is not enough to take out aircraft like the F-35, F-22 or SU-57. Its possible but unlikely that legacy aircraft would shoot down the above mentioned aircraft unless there was seriously flawed mission planning, numerical disidvantages and no AWACS assets.






I have never hear any of the various SU-57 engineers say this, nor have the test pilots or anyone relevant. In fact it's designers believe it's one of the most dominant aircraft in the world that combines unique capabilities, some of which are not found on either F-22 or F-35.
Dude a MiG 2000, Rafael, and F-16 took out F-22 raptor on multiple occasions during yet proving a good pilot with f 16 can take em out and Su 57 is no exception as its not superior to F 22 so like I said a good pilot will bring down these machines and BVRs are overrated.
 
Your argument revolve around conventional trade-offs between single-engine design and twin-engine design. Conventional benefits of twin-engine design are good for bragging in an online discussion but survivability is increasingly important in a modern battlespace.




This is utter rubbish. There no law that governs aircraft abilities based on how many engines the aircraft has. All the traits I mentioned such as supcruise, range, payload and maneuverability is not exclusive to twin engine aircraft and are also found on single engine aircraft.


As for survivability, having the ability to carry long range standoff cruise missiles increases survivability. Having supercruise not only increases survivability due to IR reduction but it also increases range and decreases cost. Having a high degree of maneuverability also increases survivability.

I'm not "bragging" about anything, I'm stating facts which you can not come to terms with, you made some wildly absurd claims based on your blind bias.



F-15C is twin-engine design and is renowned for its performance in combat operations, super cruise potential, thrust vectoring, range, payload capacity and maneuverability - usual stuff for bragging in discussions.

Yet:-

"A former F-15C instructor pilot said he consistently beat his former jet in mock dogfights." - The National Interest

F-15C > F-35 in several aspects much like SU-57 (your argument) but F-35 will make short work of F-15C in a battlespace because F-35 is superior in aspects which will make difference in the face of emerging realities - aspects which cannot be explained with some ACRONYMS (my argument).




This is not even an argument. You have stooped to making up claims. No one doubts the F-15s fine combat capabilities but that has nothing to do with the argument. Tell us where you got information about the SU-57s capabilities? What "aspects" is the F-35 "superior" in? As far as I recall there is nothing publicly available to gauge how good the SU-57s radar, missiles, ECW systems, or RCS are. The same holds true for the F-35. You are simply making fanboy claims.

We do know other, not so secret, information about the SU-57 and F-35 that clearly is in favor of the SU-57, in which it has real advantages and advantages that translates to survivability but you keep ignoring it.




This reality does not bode well for SU-57 either because Russians are thinking short-term. Nevertheless, A for effort.

By the way:

image



That is not a cruise missile and has 1/3 the range of the KH-59MK2. Since you are so big on survivability which aircraft has better survivability, the one that can fire well out of range of enemy radars and missiles or the one that has to come close enough to be in the threat zone?





I know nothing? As if information is not available on the web?



Show me information about the SU-57 avionics. There is literally almost boning out there. It's not much better for the F-35. Yet you have become an expert in what these aircrafts avionics are capable of.




And you have tested SU-57, F-35 and F-22 in person or something?



That is what I asked you. Have you tested those aircraft? Because as i recall You are the one that has been making claims about the SU-57 being inferior.





I just pointed out to you that SU-57 does not have DAS which is an important characteristic of F-35 (DAS is not just a component but something really big - a design philosophy which will revolutionize combat operations in the years to come). I can draw additional comparisons for you, to let you know where else SU-57 falls short in comparison to F-35 alone, and I have yet to start with F-22.

Your attempt to sell SU-57 as a superior aircraft to F-35 and F-22 on the whole - is not going to fly. Just admire the bird for what it is.



Not this DAS crap again. It's a big marketing gimmick, It is nothing more then a situational awareness suit. Most modern aircraft has IRST, RWRs, most modern radar have the ability and resolution to track and targets such as missiles. The only unique feartuture is the supposed hard kill system in which is not combat proven nor do we know if the SU-57 or Chinese aircraft use something similar because they simply have not revealed much.



DAS, is a great marketing gimmick but all the same optical sensors are found on the SU-57 and then some.


IMG_2856.JPG
 
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Dude a MiG 2000, Rafael, and F-16 took out F-22 raptor on multiple occasions during yet proving a good pilot with f 16 can take em out and Su 57 is no exception as its not superior to F 22 so like I said a good pilot will bring down these machines and BVRs are overrated.



Again, try reading what I wrote. Just because a few legacy fighters were able to bring down an F-22 in close combat does not mean that is the norm. The F-22, or J-20 or SU-57, etc will take down 50 or 100+ legacy aircraft for every loss they suffer. The SU-57 would also spank the F-16 in a turning fight.
 
Again, try reading what I wrote. Just because a few legacy fighters were able to bring down an F-22 in close combat does not mean that is the norm. The F-22, or J-20 or SU-57, etc will take down 50 or 100+ legacy aircraft for every loss they suffer. The SU-57 would also spank the F-16 in a turning fight.

True. A6M reigned the sky until F6F came along. Faster. Better armor. Newer design = better capability.
 
Again, try reading what I wrote. Just because a few legacy fighters were able to bring down an F-22 in close combat does not mean that is the norm. The F-22, or J-20 or SU-57, etc will take down 50 or 100+ legacy aircraft for every loss they suffer. The SU-57 would also spank the F-16 in a turning fight.
I’m not saying it’s a norm, I’m trying to make a point that Su 57 isn’t the best fighter jet ever built. At the end of the day it comes down to pilot training.
 
Not this DAS crap again. It's a big marketing gimmick, It is nothing more then a situational awareness suit. Most modern aircraft has IRST, RWRs, most modern radar have the ability and resolution to track and targets such as missiles. The only unique feartuture is the supposed hard kill system in which is not combat proven nor do we know if the SU-57 or Chinese aircraft use something similar because they simply have not revealed much.
DAS is neither crap nor a marketing gimmick. Might as well call the HUD a marketing gimmick.

At the high level, yes, DAS is a situational awareness suite, but what impressed pilots is transparency of the integration of the various sensors information into a coherent and presentable format. At the high level , the pilot himself is nothing more than a situational awareness suite, and yet, pilots welcome any form of assistance to the decision making process. Try selling a jet fighter without a HUD and see how many takers.
 

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