Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[Chukkar]

There were 10 engagements between the MKI and RSAF F-16 Block 50/52 at KKD during the RSAF-IAF exercise. The MKIs won all 10 of them. The RSAF did somewhat ok against MiG-29s and Mirage 2000s and better against the Bisons, which didnt pose such an upset as they had, as against the USAF at Gwalior in Phase 1, Cope India.
The MKIs as far as the subcontinent is concerned, are peerless. Within another 8 years time, India will have a fleet of 230 MKIs, one of the largest heavy fighter concentrations in the world.

 

[Titanium]

Lets put into perspective this SICKO-30:

What makes it so special? no doubt it is pleasing to look at, apart from that...
oh yes its the radar thingy...which will evaporate with new AESA Radars,

TVC----oh ya good to look at aero shows but......then no one is dueling in gun fighting these days... its not karate kingfu days that agility and sharpness of brce lee is needed.

Whats next...it is not Sicko-30 but MKI is what makes special, what are the contribution of french, Israel, India IN MKI Thingy- Display, Navigation, Targeting and Electronic warfare systems. Is any of these path breaking in avaiation world? No, this is what every decent fighter has in western country......so whats the big deal.

Now how is Sicko-30 MKI better than anything.......ya it is 8000 km range...but why do you wanna go that long when any decent fighter can cover whole pakistan .......by the way most pak targets are on the border region leass than 1000 Km max.

The cope India was on BS excersise designed to rather rigged to put fear in the paks mind.

As far as air combat, now the only thing that matters is look first shoot first and disengage quickly. I have a feeling that small aircraft will have a edge in the future air combat with the advancement of AVIONICS and longer range BVR Missiles being order of the day.

 

[melb4aust]

As far as air combat, now the only thing that matters is look first shoot first and disengage quickly. I have a feeling that small aircraft will have a edge in the future air combat with the advancement of AVIONICS and longer range BVR Missiles being order of the day.

Ur forgetting Stealth....ability to perform reconnaissance.....speed...accuracy(far most important factor)........there is much more.....apart from the aircrafts actual performance....its maintenance etc....etc.
ECM/ECCM suites does comes into avionics though.

 

[Titanium]

Accepted Stealth is the mother of all tech...only Uncle has it for now.

Just a note: What if the stealth is nothing more than a propaganda? Who independantly has seen the F-22. All are just relying too much on the handouts of LM.

Bythe way Sicko-30 is no stealthy ...it is a big bird seen from long distances with big signature.

 

[melb4aust]

Accepted Stealth is the mother of all tech...only Uncle has it for now.

Just a note: What if the stealth is nothing more than a propaganda? Who independantly has seen the F-22. All are just relying too much on the handouts of LM.

Bythe way Sicko-30 is no stealthy ...it is a big bird seen from long distances with big signature.

No matter what u say....still heck of a deadly fighter......every aircraft has drawbacks.....but to merely rule it out due to its size.... completely... it is totally unfair. It is still a potential threat to any airforce fighter jet in the world.

And i dont say...that no other fighter can actually compete this machine....nor i wanna argue over it....there has been a lot of discussion already happnened.

 

[Keysersoze]

Accepted Stealth is the mother of all tech...only Uncle has it for now.

Just a note: What if the stealth is nothing more than a propaganda? Who independantly has seen the F-22. All are just relying too much on the handouts of LM.

Bythe way Sicko-30 is no stealthy ...it is a big bird seen from long distances with big signature.

Stealth is not propaganda. It is based upon sound scientific theory. Actually there are members of the forum (who shall remain nameless) who will get to see said aircraft in the flesh.

 

[joey]

Stealth is neither invisible either, What is stealth infrotn of Massive Passive sensor fusion or Bi-static radars?

Stealth should be aeronautically referred as LO, to bring out the same in all main 6 fronts and integrate them and run them as a system is a unique challenge in itself.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi, for some of you who don't belive in stealth--- When a person wants to select a 'steak', they take the butcher's word for it. They don't stick their head in the 'bulls' ar- --se to be sure.

 

[Titanium]

It is not stealth a technolgy I questioning, but rather the propganda of 144-0 kill and all BS, equivalant to Changis khan's force invincibility. Babers took stand ....... rest as they say is History.
Just don't stomach all the crap of supiriority of F-22 or Sicko-30, evrything can be brought down, just think a little.

 

[Keysersoze]

It is not stealth a technolgy I questioning, but rather the propganda of 144-0 kill and all BS, equivalant to Changis khan's force invincibility. Babers took stand ....... rest as they say is History.
Just don't stomach all the crap of supiriority of F-22 or Sicko-30, evrything can be brought down, just think a little.

It's not bs.....actually recently in mock dogfights a F-22 was shot down by a f-16 so the figures are slightly different now. And comparing a modern fighter aircraft with the Berbers and the Mongols is spurious.
Everything can be brought down the numbers merely indicate how hard it would be.

 

[Titanium]

double post

 

[Titanium]

Again you missing the whole point, I drawn babers not for he slobber mongols, but he belived it can be done. The belief in oneself and to work towards the objective is what should really matter.

If you have the same belief, then you see totally different picture your whole paradigm changes....one from shock and awe of its performance to hey that is big bird I can sneak and take it down.

 

[Keysersoze]

Again you missing the whole point, I drawn babers not for he slobber mongols, but he belived it can be done. The belief in oneself and to work towards the objective is what should really matter. Bytheway,

I think you are missing the point. You seem to think that force of will and belief are enough to overcome technology. If that were true then I am sure top air forces would still be flying Bi-planes. Like it or not technology plays a huge part in todays world. Self belief will take you part of the way. Self belief and a F-22 will take you a lot further.

 

[niaz]

It is not stealth a technolgy I questioning, but rather the propganda of 144-0 kill and all BS, equivalant to Changis khan's force invincibility. Babers took stand ....... rest as they say is History.
Just don't stomach all the crap of supiriority of F-22 or Sicko-30, evrything can be brought down, just think a little.

Sorry to set the record straight. Changez Khan died in 1226 AD. Battle of Ain Jalut between Sultan Baibers ( Mumluk) and the Mongols led by Kitbuqa in 1260. Thus it is incorrect to say that Changez army was defeated by Baibers. Mongol army were fighting more than 1000 miles from their power base in Iran, both armies were approx equal strength, Mamluke slaves were also of central Asian/ Turkic origin thus of similar race as Mongols. Where is the a-symmetry here??

 

[Titanium]

Niaz .nice to know you have better historical grasp, belive me we can learn a lot( even if we are talking of Fighter AC). The assemtry was that Heavy Memulks cavelry fought the mongol light cavalry close combat which no one prviosly attempted.

Sicko-30 is as you know is very heavy fighter.... you can call it a war elphant... how do you fight it in close combat? Diffcult right.... but it was ddone before and it can be done again.

As master Sun Tzu has said "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb
in every battle."