Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[Myth_buster_1]

Ok firstly you have to understand the difference between the missiles. BVR missiles are a lot different to WVR missiles. BVR missiles require linking into radar systems. WVR generally don't. There are undoubtedly restrictions on allowing access to the Chinese to the AIM and MICA systems (Which PAK will not want to violate)

It's simple really. Chinese radar systems will use the SD-10
Western radar systems will use the AIM and MICA systems.

ok like i didnt know whats BVR or WVR?
"AMRAAM heads for the target using inertial guidance and receives updated target information via data link from the launch aircraft. It transitions to a self-guiding terminal mode when the target is within range of its own monopulse radar set, operating in high-PRF mode. Since this seeker uses its own active radar it does not require the launch aircraft to illuminate the target or to track the target. In case the target tries to protect itself with active jamming, AMRAAMs seeker switches to a medium-PRF "home-on-jam" mode."
Is their of any restriction imposed on PAF for MICA or AIM-120. does the law only allows it to be used on western MRCAs?
PAF J-10 and upgraded and later batch of JF-17 will carry western avionics and radars so what kind of technical problems would they have integrating western missiles?
can you please enlighten me with any restriction imposed on PAF regarding AMRAAM or MICA missiles?

 

[irfan1173]

AoA
Missiles cannot be integrated without the permission and involvement of radar,missile manufacturer.I doubt americans will agree to integrating AIM-120 on JF-17 even with french radar.

 

[Keysersoze]

ok like i didnt know whats BVR or WVR?
"AMRAAM heads for the target using inertial guidance and receives updated target information via data link from the launch aircraft. It transitions to a self-guiding terminal mode when the target is within range of its own monopulse radar set, operating in high-PRF mode. Since this seeker uses its own active radar it does not require the launch aircraft to illuminate the target or to track the target. In case the target tries to protect itself with active jamming, AMRAAMs seeker switches to a medium-PRF "home-on-jam" mode."
Is their of any restriction imposed on PAF for MICA or AIM-120. does the law only allows it to be used on western MRCAs?
PAF J-10 and upgraded and later batch of JF-17 will carry western avionics and radars so what kind of technical problems would they have integrating western missiles?
can you please enlighten me with any restriction imposed on PAF regarding AMRAAM or MICA missiles?

Yes re-read what you just posted.

AMRAAM heads for the target using inertial guidance and receives updated target information via data link from the launch aircraft
Now unless the pilot is going to talk the missile, it would require integration. Inertial guidance requires data to be fed to the missile first .......Do the maths.
Since there is concern about tech being passed to China, Pakistan would have given assurances about the security of technology involved. (The stupid rumours about F-16's are still being perpetuated and used against PAK)
Integrating systems is not generally a problem for say Sweden (Gripen uses a GEC/marconi/ericsson radar) or France (Rafale uses the RBE2) because they have the facility for creating similar systems, and they are allies so there would be little or no problem with tech transfer to third parties.

And so since you "KNOW" that WVR missiles don't require the use of a radar your comment about the PL-9 and AIM -9 does not hold water. the seeker is built into a missile and does not require as much integration.
The westernised aircraft would undoubtedly be constructed in PAK so there would be no problem for integration on any aircraft with WESTERN avionics like I stated earlier.

 

[Keysersoze]

AoA
Missiles cannot be integrated without the permission and involvement of radar,missile manufacturer.I doubt americans will agree to integrating AIM-120 on JF-17 even with french radar.

The AIM -120 can be used with the French Rafales so there would be no problem there. And since the Americans sold the missiles they would not mind what platform they were used on, so long as the tech was not shown to potential enemies I.E. China

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

So?

Which means it will have enhanced range, more power output. I said this in reply to another posting where there was a comparison between Su and Thunder.

Every fighter planes has sensors, ECM, and various other systems accompanying the aircraft. So what?

Yes, but 4.5 generation planes have enhanced sensor suites and capabilities wich would require more room for processing and power generation and power supplies. Sensor suites like spectra are embeddded within the plane in the sense it acts in unision or one whole unit of the plane.

Why dont you provide links that AESA will not be offered to PAF when it is needed, as per by your claims?

Vice versa , can you provide me with source that AESA has been offerd to Pakistan from the French.Yes, you can forget French avionics in case India goes for Rafale, that is called strategic negotiation and business sense. Do you think the French would like to loose contract such as MRCA IN ORDER TO supply radar for PAF. In this case cost to benifit ratio simply will not add up to favourable ratio.

I personally believe the whole offer was a pressure tactic from the French quarter and If India does not go for Rafale , I am sure that J17 will receive RC-400 and MICA.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Well to me it was also a surprise as in actual we are going for three different BVRAAMs if we include the Amraam in the list also. Well i guess the purpose with the SD-10 is to give us an indengious option provided our relationship with the west cools down. However MICA and AMRAAM are the best in the buisness and while we still have the option we will avail it.
I'm am not sure about the passive scanned array radar being offered, i think from the begining it was MICA with RC-400 radar the one also used in the mirage with slight modifications for instance making it compatible with the LINK-16 that we will use and active radar homing for BVRAAM.
Pakistan in my opinion will not go for a passive radar, whenever we change it, it will be for a new block of JF-17 and will most probally be an AESA radar. It would be probally be of chinese orgin.

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On depeer thought, dont you think SD10 will be Used in the first batch of J 17 and in the conversion of older aircrafts such as Mirage and F 7. I am sure that Pakistan will go for western AESA source or atleat prefer one since it would render MICA and the planned western avionics useless in case the western suppliers refuse to integrate it with Chinese AESA. If Pakistan were sure about going for Chinese AESA I am sure they would have preferred the current avionics anot would not have planned to go for western missiles . It simply does not mae sense in terms of spending.
(Correct me if I had missed something)

 

[Keysersoze]

On depeer thought, dont you think SD10 will be Used in the first batch of J 17 and in the conversion of older aircrafts such as Mirage and F 7. I am sure that Pakistan will go for western AESA source or atleat prefer one since it would render MICA and the planned western avionics useless in case the western suppliers refuse to integrate it with Chinese AESA. If Pakistan were sure about going for Chinese AESA I am sure they would have preferred the current avionics anot would not have planned to go for western missiles . It simply does not mae sense in terms of spending.
(Correct me if I had missed something)

IPF it is a lot simpler than you would think.

Any Chinese system would use Chinese missiles. They have the advantage of being almost sanction proof. It also allows for development and self sustainability in arms development. Whilst the systems are not the cutting edge at the moment they would catch up pretty fast. The Chinese are pumping a lot of money into development, which when you add PAK's money and scientists equals to a faster catch up rate.

French and U.S. systems would be more advanced and would be pretty much inter changeable. The French tend not to be as trigger happy with sanctions so it allows PAK with a bit more flexibility in the future with any political problems .

 

[z9-ec]

Vice versa , can you provide me with source that AESA has been offerd to Pakistan from the French.Yes, you can forget French avionics in case India goes for Rafale, that is called strategic negotiation and business sense. Do you think the French would like to loose contract such as MRCA IN ORDER TO supply radar for PAF. In this case cost to benifit ratio simply will not add up to favourable ratio.

Perhaps, I should enlighten and refresh your memory.


Have you forgotten the fact that PAF operates the largest fleet of Mirage aircrafts?

The Agostas were equipped with MESMA systems while India has scorpenes?

DCN has offered Marlin to PN?

Get your facts right. Even if India goes for Rafs there is no way the friendship between France and Pakistan gets affected.

What makes you think otherwise?! (It's common sense!)

 

[DarkStar]

Veno.

Any more senseless rants that do not add value to the discussion, then infractions and banning will follow.

 

[Super Falcon]

JF 17 first have to get twin engines than it can generate the thrust which make radars of jf 17 to make a lock on on su 30

 

[zombie:-)]

JF 17 first have to get twin engines than it can generate the thrust which make radars of jf 17 to make a lock on on su 30

SIR with due respect how is engine thrust connected to radar lock on of an aircraft

 

[k7x]

Well you have to understand JF17 is first child of PAF and SU 30 is for India.
they will get much attention .

I agree PAF will increase the avionics and smartness of jF17 to match Su30MKI. but by that time Inida will not waitED with Su30MKI. they will have much more advanced version of su30MKI . so it is like a carrot infront of a horse. PAF will try to bridge the gap but it has to be seen that India will also improve its plane to widen its gap.

Air combat..

Su 30 has more fire power , more range, TVC, high internal energy ( very important to operate EW ) .

jF17s edge is low size and good fire power ( talk of total 9 hard points)

you can talk about IFR ... but the first target of any attack will be on the high valued assets like IFR tanker and AWACS .. and su30 has some bad weapons to take them out. but for su30 , it can travel far and get IFR safely

 

[zombie:-)]

the only surefire way to give a blody nose to IAF is to build jf-17s in large numbers and keeping their timely upgrades on track

 

[Arsalan]

the only surefire way to give a blody nose to IAF is to build jf-17s in large numbers and keeping their timely upgrades on track

agreed!

JF17 flying with timely modifications and two or three squadrons of more modren jets like the FC20 and the F16 block 52 seems to be the right answer by PAF

 

[Super Falcon]

example before you have to lock on su 30 you must reach near to your target so you can get the target of your fighgter jet in your fighter jets radar its not like that JF 17 is in the skies of karachi and its radars detects su 30 in skies of lahore which is impoesible how can Jf 17 destroy it because its radars dont have su 30 on its range Jf 17 have to reach near to su so it can lock on it it is only examply i know some of Jf will be stationed in lahore