Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[mean_bird]

Gucci, AESA radars should not cost more than $2.5-3 million/piece (for a size compatible with the JF-17) and you get advantage in maintenance too. The real cost will be the weapons.

Still, if we can get some ToT with partial in-house manufacturing (as we do for Grifo), costs should be within our reach. If you need something good, you will have to spend some money. We did our saving in the airframe and going the chinese way, so we have the cushion to spend a bit in this department.

 

[Contrarian]

MKI itself is a block 2 or a block 3 and it is not 10 years old. The original Su-30 even for India were not MKIs but were later upgraded to be so.

Specs were frozen by 2000. The upgrades and integration of all the French/Israeli and other equipment equipment took time.

The MKI phase II and Phase III describe the level of Indian technology put in the MKI and its levels of domestic production. The Phase III of the MKI project includes the production of a Su-30MKI from ground up.

The Phase II and Phase III donot mean different specs of the plane. It is a standard spec'd plane.

All of them will start getting MLU'd around 2014. It remains to be seen whether the plane is re-engined or not. A change of radar and a change of avionics is certain, including different EW equipment set in, this apart from the external Israeli EW pod put on the MKI.

The Su-30 itself is a variant of the Su-27. Its goes like this:
-Su-27
-Su-30
-Su-30K
-Su-30MKI

India started getting from the Su-30, then Su-30K and then Su-30MKI.

Lastly, a Su-30 or a Su-30K/Su-30MK CANNOT be upgraded to a Su-30MKI. A Su-30MKI has to be built specifically.

There is a HUGE difference between a Su-30K or the Su-30MKK(that China has) from a Su-30MKI.

 

[mean_bird]

Lastly, a Su-30 or a Su-30K/Su-30MK CANNOT be upgraded to a Su-30MKI. A Su-30MKI has to be built specifically.

I was referring to the fact that they were upgraded in terms of avionics. Not technically the MKIs so you're right.

 

[maverick2009]

French will charge Indian Air force $20 million each to upgrade Mirage 2000H to Mirage 2000 dash 5 standard. And will take 3 years to upgrade 51 planes

God only knows wat they wil charge to upgrade a never seen before Chinease FIGHTER.

Some forum members are suggesting block 2 JF17 with

New engine
New radar.
Compatability with French & USA weapons
lower rcs

Thats huge changes for a brand new warplane.

 

[Contrarian]

French will charge Indian Air force $20 million each to upgrade Mirage 2000H to Mirage 2000 dash 5 standard. And will take 3 years to upgrade 51 planes

The changes are more than standard Dash 5 configuration.

 

[maverick2009]

For $20m each i would expect Rafale level upgrade of weapons and radar.

And this is wat PAF will want for JF17 too i imagine

 

[Gucci Juice]

malay

do u have a source that says mki will be upgraded by 2014?

that's when production ends and all 230 are produced right?

 

[zombie:-)]

malay

do u have a source that says mki will be upgraded by 2014?

that's when production ends and all 230 are produced right?

here it is from TAKE-OFF.RU feb 2009 issue which i got from Aero India 2009

possible upgrades
STAGE 1 : radars performance and operating modes will be beefed up
STAGE 2: a new AESA resulting from the FGFA PROGRAM

EDIT i dont think IAF will go for irbis-E.....there will be some more changes in the BARS N011 ...and later they will go for AESA

 

[Gucci Juice]

well that confirms aesa for mki.

so i guess u guys need to take into account an aesa radar for mki which is hard to jam and also is a good ew weapon in itsself along with the internal ew equipment the mki has and also the external jammer it has.

 

[maverick2009]

SU30 MKI will get additional upgrades from the SU35 & PAK FA projects.

The Aesa RADAR 7 the KH172 BVR missle are virtually guranteed to end up on future mkis since its india that financing the development.

I would also argue that some of the new technology going intp PAK FA again part indian funded will find itself in infian flankers.

PESA equipped flanker with R77/27 bvr is just the start..

 

[Arsalan]

well can anybody please tell me that,

can the JF17 be data linked with the AEW systems we are purchasing?
if so i guess it would cancle out the Su30 radar edge to some extent, though there may still be some points where Su30 will be better but for me the Radar aspect will no more be one on them!!

any info on this. please share!

Regards!

 

[LCA]

well can anybody please tell me that,

can the JF17 be data linked with the AEW systems we are purchasing?
if so i guess it would cancle out the Su30 radar edge to some extent, though there may still be some points where Su30 will be better but for me the Radar aspect will no more be one on them!!

any info on this. please share!

Regards!

You have to think both way

If u have SAAB then we have phalcon , apart from this MKI itself can take a mini-AWACS role which is data linked with four other MKI.

Now imagine the scenario.

 

[Arsalan]

well can anybody please tell me that,

can the JF17 be data linked with the AEW systems we are purchasing?

can somebody focus on this, i didnt meant to be offensive, it was just a question as mentioned above, it will be beter if you can answer this!!

regards!

 

[mean_bird]

can somebody focus on this, i didnt meant to be offensive, it was just a question as mentioned above, it will be beter if you can answer this!!

regards!

Arsalan,

what's the point of buying an AEW&C/AWACS if your planes are not data-linked to it?

Sure they will be data-linked. JF-17 will be our back-bone and remember that SAAB erieye was the whole deal before, as noted in another thread, we split across the erieye and the chinese AWACS. Therefore JF-17 and Erieye were under consideration so its only logical to think they can be data-linked.

Grifo is an open architecture radar, and the bus standards and other things are on western systems on the JF-17. So rest assured that JF-17 will be data-linked with AWACS as well as ground-based radars. Its only a natural thing to do.

For the moment, neither JF-17 are inducted as a squadron nor the erieye is here, so you will have to wait. If I am not mistaken, the interwiew of ex-ACM with Dawn news channel also talked about data-links.

It has been reported by some that it already is data-linked to its peers and share information from targeting pods.

You have to think both way

If u have SAAB then we have phalcon , apart from this MKI itself can take a mini-AWACS role which is data linked with four other MKI.

Now imagine the scenario.

Unless they intend to upgrade some of the MKIs with better equipment, I don't see the benefit of data linking an MKI with four other MKIs. Reliability may be?

It would make more sense to data-link a less-capable aircraft in the formation to receive more information from the Su-30MKI and that is what is referred to as a mini-AWACS.

 

[LCA]

Unless they intend to upgrade some of the MKIs with better equipment, I don't see the benefit of data linking an MKI with four other MKIs. Reliability may be?

It would make more sense to data-link a less-capable aircraft in the formation to receive more information from the Su-30MKI and that is what is referred to as a mini-AWACS.

There is no need of upgradation for MKI to act as a mini-awacs, it already have this capability and also datalinking with 4 other aircraft, it can be MKI or any other aircraft.

As far as benifit is concern,if one MKI use it radar and rest of 4 jet datalinked to it not req. to use their radar so they can remain invisible to enemy radar for longer range and can make the surprise attack.I don't know about reliability but that's is one of the objective of an AWACS.