Strength of alliance between India-Isreal

[Developereo]

Just to make it clear, this Indian obsession to portray China as a monster in human rights abuse is getting tiresome. Certainly China has some internal problems, like most countries, but there is no way you can compare the Tibetan and Uighur situation to the wholesale ethnic cleansing of Palestinians by Israel.

Just to remind people, Nelson Mandela equated Israel to apartheid-era South Africa.

 

[Developereo]

Or just in case as I suggested, try arguing about the cultural invasion to any internet Chinese. They will rip you off.

Most moderate Chinese accept the fact that all peoples, including minorities, should retain their cultural and religious traditions.

And what India-Israel do is none of your effing concern.

India's military alliances are most certainly relevant to all countries in the region.

 

[Vinod2070]

Somebody has to, when faced with hypocrisy.

You really think you are not a hypocrite? If there is no democracy in the Islamic world, am I to blame for it?

If the Egyptians and Turks are not putting the lives of their people at risk fighting with Israel so that you can enjoy from the sidelines, is it my fault?

What have you done for Palestinians except being self righteously hypocrite? What has Pakistan done except being self righteous?

No, it explains it. There is a difference between explaining something and justifying it.

And who gives you the right to explain it on behalf of the Turks? Do they even see the need to explain it or justify it?

India's relationship is very transparent: sacrifice humanitarian principles in exchange for Israeli military help against Pakistan.

And for some reason you get to decide it?

Pakistan is a minor factor in our calculus now. You will get used to this reality soon.

TNT is not a well known acronym for anything other than dynamite. And what exactly is the relevance of that here? The debate is about respect for diversity in Indian national discourse.

The relevance is your compulsive need to feel that Indian Muslims are at a disadvantage to you and you did the right thing in 1947.

I thought it was obvious. Apparently not!

The debate was about Indo-Israel relations and you are hypocritically trying to determine its substance based on your narrow, hypocritical worldview that stems from being more Arab than the Arabs. The famous identity crisis syndrome?

It is amply documented by the Indian posts on every Israel-related thread. The militant jingoists like yourself drown out any dissent by shouting down anyone else in the name of 'national interests'. Implication being that anyone who dares to disagree with you is harming national interests and is not a true patriot.

More hallucination and convincing oneself.

The Presidency is a ceremonial post and, in any case, one person does not make foregn policy.

I meant the governments of the Muslim countries that have relations with Israel. I obviously need to be more explicit.

My stance on Israel is separate from religion. But it is a fact that Israel has turned it into a religious conflict and many Muslims respond as such.

Yeah. Sure.

Spare me the revisionist history. Millions of Muslims were displaced from India in 1947, and their land confiscated.

Yet India has a large and growing Muslim community with full constitutional rights. Some difference?

Once again, the subject is India-Israel, not India-Lebanon.

Its not about India-Lebanon but about Palestinian refugees' condition. Of course your hypocrisy would never see that.

No, it is the leadup to 1947 that matters; the slow encroachment of Zionists over Palestinian land. The Zionists had been planning this thing for over a century.

OK. As you say. I have nothing to say about it for now.

Pratical by whose definition? That the Israelis get to keep what they stole by force? Once again, you are showing your true colors by subjugating human rights to material gains.

No you are showing your intolerant streak for any infidel in Islamic land. You don't mind the opposite from happening in the Indian subcontinent though?

No, the appropriate label for one such as yourself who characterizes a principled position as 'hateful' simply because it advocates the rights of Muslims.

It has nothing to do with Islam or Muslims as far as I am concerned. Only you are making it such.

It is appropriate to point out the eradication of Buddhism from India by Hindu extremists, to highlight your hypocrisy and selective historical view.

Anything that helps you sleep better.

No, you were talking about the Samson doctrine and how Israel would wipe out the entire Middle East. Don't even try to weasel out of it.
You were reveling in your Islamophobia vicariously through Israel -- like a lot of Israeli supporters.

I can't help you if you can't understand simple writing. I repeat again.

Arabs are no David facing the Israel Goliath. They are having a massive advantage in numbers in all manners of resources, an advantage of 50-100 times.

They don't need someone like you to beat the drums for them. They look at such people only in contempt and many in Pakistan have begun to realize it.

 

[Vinod2070]

Just to make it clear, this Indian obsession to portray China as a monster in human rights abuse is getting tiresome. Certainly China has some internal problems, like most countries, but there is no way you can compare the Tibetan and Uighur situation to the wholesale ethnic cleansing of Palestinians by Israel.

Just to remind people, Nelson Mandela equated Israel to apartheid-era South Africa.

Your trying to be more Arab than the Arabs, more Turk than the Turk and more Chinese than the Chinese is frankly getting tiresome.

 

[Solomon2]

Nonsense. In response to your anecotal piece by one IDF propagandist, I posted an article quoting nationwide public polls showcasing widespread Jewish bigotry against Arabs. Bigotry which you yourself appropriated. And proudly so.

The fact remains that what people feel is one thing but how they choose to live is another. That is civilized behavior.

This is the same kind of propaganda used by Nazis to claim that Jews were an insidious race which always placed Jewish loyalty above everything else.

Do you think Jews should have "loyally" adhered to Nazi goals, rather than Jewish values? My grandparents were loyal German Jews. The Nazis killed them anyway. The Nazis did not judge my grandparents as individuals or consider them enemy combatants; for the Nazis, murdering millions of Jews was an administrative matter - the application of their ideology - to be put into effect with the expansion of Nazi territory and power.

How ironic that, in your hubris, you are actually corroborating Nazi propaganda -

Propaganda is a tool, and tools may be used for good or ill. My views on race are not comparable to Nazi views. It is just that they are not the simple antithesis of Nazi views that are the social norm today. I acknowledge differences in national or group temperament and ethics. This demands judgment and lets no one group escape it by claiming to be just as good or bad as anyone else. The possibility of moral superiority between them exists for specific choices and contexts. That is not the same as making a blanket judgment on a group. (I can make a supposition that some sort of moral summation is possible but I think this is beyond my abilities.)

I think my attitude is far more healthy than the reflexive, "Oooh, he's a racist, don't listen to him!" standard that prevails. My proof has been posted for over five years now and no one has dented it yet.

 

[Developereo]

Your trying to be more Arab than the Arabs, more Turk than the Turk and more Chinese than the Chinese is frankly getting tiresome.

I am stating a principled position. Try to address the actual issues.

You really think you are not a hypocrite? If there is no democracy in the Islamic world, am I to blame for it?

If the Egyptians and Turks are not putting the lives of their people at risk fighting with Israel so that you can enjoy from the sidelines, is it my fault?

What have you done for Palestinians except being self righteously hypocrite? What has Pakistan done except being self righteous?

Your obsession with Islam is clouding your ability to focus on the issue, which is India-Israel relationship.
This is not about Egypt or Turkey or Lebanon. Pakistan is relevant inasmuch as India's military buildup affects the region.

And who gives you the right to explain it on behalf of the Turks? Do they even see the need to explain it or justify it?

You, or somebody else, brought Turkey into the discussion and I explained why they have diplomatic relations with Israel.

Pakistan is a minor factor in our calculus now. You will get used to this reality soon.

Internet warriorship notwithstanding, the India-Israel alliance blossomed during Kargil precisely because India was getting its as$ kicked and Israel had to bail you out.

The relevance is your compulsive need to feel that Indian Muslims are at a disadvantage to you and you did the right thing in 1947.

The Hindu Business Line : Israel, a key poll issue in Kerala

There is also a sizeable section among the population in the 20 constituencies which considers Saddam Hussein a hero, George Bush a villain and Israel the arch enemy of the people of the Muslim world. Hence, the unlikely focus on Israel as a mobilisation strategy in Kerala.

The debate was about Indo-Israel relations and you are hypocritically trying to determine its substance based on your narrow, hypocritical worldview that stems from being more Arab than the Arabs. The famous identity crisis syndrome?

The fact of the matter is that Israel and the Zionists have framed this as a religious conflict from the beginning. And many Jews and Muslims have fallen for the ruse, unfortunately. But it doesn't mean that everyone who opposes Israel does so on religious grounds.

There are ways of looking at the world without a religious prism -- try it.

Yeah. Sure.

Not everyone is obsessed with Islam, they way you are.

Yet India has a large and growing Muslim community with full constitutional rights. Some difference?

It doesn't change the fact that ethnic cleansing occured on both sides in 1947 -- something you selectively edited out in your original post.

Its not about India-Lebanon but about Palestinian refugees' condition. Of course your hypocrisy would never see that.

Nothing to do with hypocrisy, but sticking to the discussion topic at hand.

No you are showing your intolerant streak for any infidel in Islamic land. You don't mind the opposite from happening in the Indian subcontinent though?

Ah, the obligatory Islamophobic rant. We'll let this one slip and ignore it in the interest of not derailing the topic.

It has nothing to do with Islam or Muslims as far as I am concerned. Only you are making it such.

It doesn't matter how you convince yourself to ignore reality. The fact is that Arabs refugees are denied the right of return because they are Muslim and Christian.

I can't help you if you can't understand simple writing. I repeat again.

Arabs are no David facing the Israel Goliath. They are having a massive advantage in numbers in all manners of resources, an advantage of 50-100 times.

They don't need someone like you to beat the drums for them. They look at such people only in contempt and many in Pakistan have begun to realize it.

Noooo, it won't wash. You are trying to weasel you way out of your original assertion that the Arabs better be careful cause Israel will exercise the Samson doctrine and wipe them off the face of the Earth.

Like I said, you are living vicariously through Israel, dreaming of exterminating the Arabs and Muslims.

 

[MilSpec]

Pakistan has traditionally sourced weaponry from USA at heavily discounted prices, in response USSR (and then Russia) was the primary source for india.

China started providing military hardware to Pakistan to which India never cried foul.. So why all this fuss about INDO ISRAELI strategic ties by pakistani members.

And about the palestine cause.. If our pakistani friends are so concerned about the Palestinians then, why not send your laskar e toiba or jaish e muhumad to gaza or west bank. You can still maintain the same line of non-state-actors and get away.

 

[Soumitra]

I think I know Muslims better than you... Those 20% in Israel may also not be happy with what Israel is doing and after all they are not in power there so they cannot speak against Israel's state like Indian Muslims cannot speak against the state of India... We can see it in Kashmir...

Power less people can do only one thing 'Accept' and this is what Indian and Israelee Muslims or any other country's Muslims are doing right now.

But when the oppression reaches it's peak then it happens what is happening in Egypt.The biggest ally of Israel in Arab world against the will of people... Turkey Ally of Israel against the will of people we see the will of people in freedom flotilla incidence....

My advice for Indian government is that don't publicize or praise your relations with Israel so much because it's definitely gonna harm you in the end

Tumne kyaa India aur Israel ke muslims ka theka le rakha hai?

 

[Vinod2070]

Learn to read.

The original troll post is all about Islam, albeit in the usual circuitous manner.
And then an Indian Muslim comes along and says he agrees with the relationship.

You yourself say that your issue with Israel is not because you are a Muslim.

Then, why could a Muslim not support his nation's ties with Israel that are mutually beneficial? What exactly is your issue with that except the pathetic thekedaari of Islam.

In the words of your Hasan Nisaar, "thudde padte hain in trying to be thekedaar, but you never learn". Because you suffer from a serious identity crisis.

 

[KS]

Most moderate Chinese accept the fact that all peoples, including minorities, should retain their cultural and religious traditions.

Try that with any Chinese member. Try saying to them Han chinese are culturally invading the Uighurs and destroying their culture.

And btw why delte th part about Pakistan govt growing a pair and saying the word Uighur to China ?? No they wont because if they do those pretty F-22Ps,A-100s,JF-17s , the various aids would all be stopped. Aint it ?

India's military alliances are most certainly relevant to all countries in the region.

Ahaan now comes the real intention. Dude if you had said this I would have had no reason to argue with you. Why bring in words like 'Humanitarian' , 'principles' etc to mask the real concern that with Israeli tech India is just widening the military gap

 

[Vinod2070]

No, like unarmed Palestinian women.

You mean those behind whom the Hamas terrorists hide?

It was an Indian who broached the subject by claiming he supports Israel despite being a Muslim.

because he doesn't bring religion into that relationship like you. Its two states having mutually beneficial relations.

Ah, your Islamophobia rears its ugly head once again. You seem to be consumed by your hatred of all things Islamic -- no wonder you like Israel so much.

You are a true hypocrite. You claim to be speaking for human rights but when it comes to your own issues, you hide behind cries of "Islamophobe".

As I told you, you are a true Ummah spokesperson. Only you have no credibility with anyone.

As to your diversionary suggestion, since we are returning lands to 'rightful' owners, will you also return all the land that was confiscated predominantly from Muslims during Nehru's land reforms? And all the lands that were grabbed while Muslims fled India in 1947?

Where did you get that from? Muslims were predominant landowners only in West Pakistani provinces. Land reforms were totally secular in nature, something a person like you can never understand.

But that is besides the point. Because you claim to be so hypocritically concerned about Palestinians (but apparently never moved a finger to help them, except on your keyboard), why not start nearer home and set an example. Why bring in unrelated issues?

I am not the one bringing in unrelated crap just because it has some distant connection to Islam. You obsession with Islam is telling...

Only in your mind. I have nothing against any religion including Islam. We don't insult any religion like you do the religion of your ancestors.

You really think this invites respect for your current one?

Whether it needs India's help or not, the fact is that IDF trains with India. And IDF then goes on to kill unarmed Palestinian civilians.

Most of the blame goes to the cowardly Hamas hiding among the civilians and firing their cowardly rockets.

We are presuming to urge them to decide the matter peacefully.

Try raising the issue with the Chinese. Let us see.

 

[KS]

^^^ Vinod beat it ; the real concerns have already come out -

India's military alliances are most certainly relevant to all countries in the region.

.

It was just gift wrapped in hi-fi words like 'humanitarian', 'principles' for our consumption

 

[Vinod2070]

I am stating a principled position. Try to address the actual issues.

That is the real issue.

Your obsession with Islam is clouding your ability to focus on the issue, which is India-Israel relationship.

To me it is not about Islam. To me India-Israel relationship is one between two sovereign nations that may not necessarily agree with all policies of each other.

This is not about Egypt or Turkey or Lebanon. Pakistan is relevant inasmuch as India's military buildup affects the region.

You are frankly tying yourself in knots. Many Muslim countries have relations with Israel as they see fit. No one needs your approval. Given your support for Afghan Taliban that caused much bigger human right problems in your immediate neighborhood, I see your obsession with kaffirs amusing.

You, or somebody else, brought Turkey into the discussion and I explained why they have diplomatic relations with Israel.

No. You don't know jackass about it and you only tried to guess it.

Internet warriorship notwithstanding, the India-Israel alliance blossomed during Kargil precisely because India was getting its as$ kicked and Israel had to bail you out.

Watch at 8:45 min. This is a person speaking who knows more about Kargil than internet warriors like you will ever know. Facts don't really matter to people like you when speculation and chest beating can substitute for them.

USA saved your arse in Kargil. This is admitted by your own PM of the day and every person who knows what happened then.

The Hindu Business Line : Israel, a key poll issue in Kerala

There is also a sizeable section among the population in the 20 constituencies which considers Saddam Hussein a hero, George Bush a villain and Israel the arch enemy of the people of the Muslim world. Hence, the unlikely focus on Israel as a mobilisation strategy in Kerala.

There was laso the case where a politician was roaming with a lookalike of Osama Bin Laden in Bihar. Politicians try to get votes by appealing to the most regressive elements, it should not be taken seriously.

The fact of the matter is that Israel and the Zionists have framed this as a religious conflict from the beginning. And many Jews and Muslims have fallen for the ruse, unfortunately. But it doesn't mean that everyone who opposes Israel does so on religious grounds.

I never said it is religious. It is you and you only.

Stop reading between the lines. You are not able to read the lines themselves clearly.

There are ways of looking at the world without a religious prism -- try it.

An advice that will work for you. This relationship is not about any religion as far as I am concerned.

Not everyone is obsessed with Islam, they way you are.

You have become a broken record. Since there is no substance. Never was. Just pathetic hypocrisy and self righteousness which doesn't have a leg to stand on.

When one starts analyzing your own actions and that of your heroes, there start the accusations of Islamophobia. Guess what, you have been exposed for being a hypocrite with no love for anyone including the Palestinians. You reject the only solution that can give them relief.

You are also willing to put the entire Middle East to danger to massage your ego.

It doesn't change the fact that ethnic cleansing occured on both sides in 1947 -- something you selectively edited out in your original post.

In your case it was almost total. You fail to see it for obvious reasons (hypocrisy).

Nothing to do with hypocrisy, but sticking to the discussion topic at hand.

Everything to so with hypocrisy. You don't want to be judged by your own actions.

Ah, the obligatory Islamophobic rant. We'll let this one slip and ignore it in the interest of not derailing the topic.

This is fact!

It doesn't matter how you convince yourself to ignore reality. The fact is that Arabs refugees are denied the right of return because they are Muslim and Christian.

Too bad. Hope Pakistan military will attack the infidels and clear the way for their return. Since the Arabs are clearly unwilling to do it.

Noooo, it won't wash. You are trying to weasel you way out of your original assertion that the Arabs better be careful cause Israel will exercise the Samson doctrine and wipe them off the face of the Earth.

Like I said, you are living vicariously through Israel, dreaming of exterminating the Arabs and Muslims.

I can't do anything about your comprehension abilities or the lack of it.

It is you who want conditions that would cause that doctrine to be executed. I want a peaceful two state solution with a viable Palestinian state and secure Israel. That will help the whole region except some Islamists like you who will rage but who cares for your rage?

 

[Vinod2070]

^^^ Vinod beat it ; the real concerns have already come out - .

It was just gift wrapped in hi-fi words like 'humanitarian', 'principles' for our consumption

That was alwys clear. I think it is important to expose this hypocrisy of principles once and for all.

 

[Dash]

Guys...a very honest openion...

Human race was designed for the fittest and who survives in all fights...anybody who wants to play it fair and justified is actually a fool by design. (though honesty has to be there).

Most advanced countried have understood this and play it well. Like America looking for oil. I want to say if America looks for oil and jews want to keep palestine for their own reason...Its the others who are fools and not them...

Life is tough, for survival anybody will do anything, that time aggresion is the best morale.