Strength of alliance between India-Isreal

[CardSharp]

This has been one the prized false-arguments of malicious ,to insinuate India-Israel alliance as anti-Muslims .

We have been as critical about Israel's disproportionate military response,as rest of the world.

We made clear the relations with Israel wouldn't mean dilution on our stance towards Palestinians .

We have even voted against Israel in the UN(Goldstone report)

We have even supported Syria by saying Israel must vacate Golan heights.

However all this will fall on deaf ears of those ,who ,like the medieval role-models used religion as a tool to justify their slaughters,wars,occupying lands etc. and use people as cannon fodder for their political agendas.

I agree with you India and Israel's friendly relations comes about because of expanding economic ties and a friend cultural exchange, not because of a anti-Muslim axis.

but explain to me how comments like this are less insidious and insinuating?

Yes, China is very efficient at killing Muslims

 

[Zeeshan360]

Forget the trolls .
Even u knw

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

but explain to me how comments like this are less insidious and insinuating?

They are baseless thats it.

 

[CardSharp]

They are baseless thats it.

He was using China to prove what? That Pakistanis don't blindly take sides with Muslims regardless of situation and circumstance? That they don't have other considerations such justice and mutual respect in their lives? The whole thing is ridiculous. National interest is not selfish nor is it immoral, it is the premise on which international relations work. That Pakistanis have genuinely emotionally concerned with fate of other Muslims of that I am sure, but that concern is not blind of that I am also sure.

Why certain people want to play it as if it was some kind of hypocritical position is beyond me.

 

[KS]

They are baseless thats it.

He was using China to prove what? That Pakistanis don't blindly take sides with Muslims regardless of situation and circumstance? That they don't have other considerations such justice and mutual respect in their lives? The whole thing is ridiculous. National interest is not selfish nor is it immoral, it is the premise on which international relations work. That Pakistanis have genuinely emotionally concerned with fate of other Muslims of that I am sure, but that concern is not blind of that I am also sure.

Why certain people want to play it as if it was some kind of hypocritical position is beyond me.

Most certainly how China deals with Uighurs is none of any Indian's concern and there are no two ways about it.

But China was used to expose the blatant double standard of the particular Pakistani member who refuses to say anything about it,let alone a word of condemnation (after all they are also a part of the Ummah) nor is willing to stop the F-16 purchases from US , the biggest killer of Muslims worldwide while stridently criticising India for its alliance with Israel.

What is funny is that while National interests play part in Pakistan's relation with China,US the same should NOT play a role in India's alliance with Israel as it violates humanitarian principles according to the genius.

 

[CardSharp]

Most certainly how China deals with Uighurs is none of any Indian's concern and there are no two ways about it.

But China was used to expose the blatant double standard of the particular Pakistani member who refuses to say anything about it,let alone a word of condemnation (after all they are also a part of the Ummah) nor is willing to stop the F-16 purchases from US , the biggest killer of Muslims worldwide while stridently criticising India for its alliance with Israel.

What is funny is that while National interests play part in Pakistan's relation with China,US the same should NOT play a role in India's alliance with Israel as it violates humanitarian principles according to the genius.

Sorry China one of the two biggest killers of Muslims? More Han Chinese died than Uighur citizens by a large margin. We executed 2 people after they were tried by a court.

 

[KS]

Sorry China one of the two biggest killers of Muslims? We shot like 2 people after they were tried by court for what they did during the riots.

Read my post again.

 

[CardSharp]

Read my post again.

Sorry misread. To be honest Uighurs have exactly the same amount of political freedom as a Han person, which may not be a lot but they don't get treated any different than if a Han person started agitating for separatism.

 

[KS]

Sorry misread. To be honest Uighurs have exactly the same amount of political freedom as a Han person, which may not be a lot but they don't get treated any different than if a Han person started agitating for separatism.

As I said, I don't care about how you guys treat the Uighurs ; shoot them for all I care - but Pakistani posters himself has admitted that the Uighurs are under cultural attack from the Han chinese. But he never condemns them for that. That was my contention.

Anyway I don't want to argue with/about that guy further because you can awake a person who is asleep but not one who pretends to be asleep.

 

[EjazR]

First of all, I would rather prefer India becomes self-sufficient in its defence need rather than depending on any other country. But at present living in a hostile neighbourhood particulary with China which has an opaque policy forming body, India will need all the help it can get.

And India-Israel "alliance" is a very strong and probably far fretched term. Yes there is a strong defence and intelligence partnership, particularly thanks to the help in the Kargil War with Pakistan and thesubsequent events after that. But most of the deals have still been transactional where India pays and buys from Israel rather than true co-development like say with the Russians on the 5th gen fighter jets.

Besides, for 2010 Israel moved to second place after the Russians in defence deals and would probably move to third with the US providing the same tech directly.

And Israel providing defence tech is not exclusive to India. Here is an older thread that details Israeli-Chinese defence relations http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/50362-israel-second-only-russia-providing-arms-china.html

And ofcourse, both trade and defence relationship has been bigger between China and Israel than India until most recently. And ofcourse Turkey-a muslim majority country-also has had a much longer and more extensive military relationship with Israel as well.

Both China and Turkey have put in more money in the Israeli economy than India has done.

And overall, GoI has a consistent specfic policy on the Israel-Palestine question. That final solution will be a two state solution for Israel and Palestine with East Jerusalem at its capital. India is not a major player in the peace process and in any case the US plays the leading if imperfect role which at present has no space for other countries. And as Indian's vote on the UNSC sesolution (vetoes by US)in favor of condemning the settlement expansions by Israel shows that India considers the occupation of West Bank and Gaza as illegal.


Here is a more credible survey done by WorldPublicOpinion.org on the Israel/Palestine question and you will see that India has both strong pro-palestine and pro-Israeli constituents. Although the ideal case would be that no side should be taken to have a fair settlement of the dispute.
International Poll: Most Publics--including Americans--Oppose Taking Sides in Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - World Public Opinion

Political Judaism or Zionism as an ideology will always cause issues in the long term as does any religious nationalist ideology and many Jews themselves oppose the ideology considering it unhealthy. Jews and Muslims are probably the closest when it comes to religious practices and Indian muslims hopefully can have a moderating affect on Israeli policies in the long term.

The Palestinian conflict is not just about Jews and Muslims though because there are many Christian Palestinians sufferring as well and until the 80s, the conflict was largely leftist and secular led by Yasser Arafat.

Maybe in the future India can play a role for peace between Israel and Palestine as it has good will of both countries. And the Palestinian PM had specifically asked India's role in the peace process.
But India should wait until a better government in Israel led by someone who is of stature like ex-Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin comes to power. At present Israel is ruled by a coalition of right-wing and a loony right-wing party which makes talks of peace really difficult.

 

[SEAL]

Indians getting weapons from every country i don't see anything special about India and Israel relations.
Indians have to follow every order of Zionists if you don't then you have to pay heavy price (Turkey-Israel relations good example).

On Kashmir issue Israel said several times that Pakistan-India solve this issue through dialogue it means Israel don't recognize Kashmir as part of India.

 

[gulte]

Indians getting weapons from every country i don't see anything special about India and Israel relations.
Indians have to follow every order of Zionists if you don't then you have to pay heavy price (Turkey-Israel relations good example).

On Kashmir issue Israel said several times that Pakistan-India solve this issue through dialogue it means Israel don't recognize Kashmir as part of India.

Thats why Israel military chiefs visit Kashmir regularly.

 

[BoseDK]

We love Isarelis because we are victims of same disgusting menace.

Israelis are like our brothers.

 

[Developereo]

Shame on u ppl for supporting Hamas killings of Jews .

Nobody is supporting terrorism here.

Palestines could have solved the conflict by taking peaceful means . As US was with Israel , Palestines could have taken tge help of UN and Soviet Russia that time .

All the offers have been sham media stunts rather than genuine offers. The two most crucial elements -- return of refugees and status of Jerusalem -- are always left off as to-be-decided.

As far as u r 2nd question , why the hell on earth will India think of considering u r agendas , when u ppl dont care .

I don't expect India to care for Pakistan's agenda when forming its foreign policy. But, as a Pakistani, it is important to discuss India's alliances and what it means for the region.

You are reading whats in your head because of your obsession with India. When the article says its anti terrorism, we take it as that. israel and india have been one of the biggest victims of terrorism in the world. you are automatically taking that as anti islam, something people not suffering from islamophobia fail to see.

Your islamophobia and hinduphobia and judaphobia is getting the better of you, you are reading whats not written and then you want us to discuss it

Why don't u just read our replies and the entire debate in your head only, instead of asking us to type it out? just assume we said it like u r assuming what the article REALLY says?

Earth to fateh71: Feel free to rejoin the discussion when you have returned from your mental trip into weirdoland. When you decide to rejoin, try to form a coherent line of thought and actual debating points instead of stringing together random phrases.

Most peiople see through the war-on-terror euphemism.

So what exactly is your problem ?? Are you a mind-police for Indian Muslims ?

Save your hypocrisy and blatant double standards for some one else. And start pointing fingers at INdia when you develop some thing to point fingers at China for their Uighur repression

Once again, the Uighur situation is not comparable to the Palestinians and, in any case, I have already stated that Pakistan should encourage a peaceful solution to the Uighur concerns so terrorists don't hijack the issue.

or paying blood money to the US in the form of purchase of F-16s.

I don't think you know what the term 'blood money' means.

 

[KS]

Once again, the Uighur situation is not comparable to the Palestinians and, in any case, I have already stated that Pakistan should encourage a peaceful solution to the Uighur concerns so terrorists don't hijack the issue.

Yeah yeah you said in an anonymous internet forum . I will believe it when your country develops the balls to say the word Uighur to China.

Or just in case as I suggested, try arguing about the cultural invasion to any internet Chinese. They will rip you off.

I don't think you know what the term 'blood money' means.

I don't care to know. India's alliance with Israel is based on national interest of India. What Israel or the Hamas terrorists do in Middle east is none of our effing concern. Unlike you we dont have any imaginary brotherhood binding us with either Israel or Palestinians.

And what India-Israel do is none of your effing concern.