Strategic restraint or loss of capabilities?

[GumNaam]

You could engage without petty rhetorical references. Up until the early 2000's your forces came under frequent attacks. It was the fencing and putting the mil infrastructure in deep freeze on our side that gave you the breathing space. Thank Musharraf for where you are today.

incorrect. there forces still come under frequent attacks, it is even worse this time now that China has jumped into the picture. and the solution to these frequent attacks that the negative iq'd genius sitting in delhi was to stick his head in the ground and wave his @ss up in the air by creating a "media blackout", if he can't see it or hear it then its not happening...what a genius solution!


and by the way, this was a shit thread on your part. Pakistan is neither practicing strategic restraint nor loosing any capabilities. Pakistan is in fact, MOVING strategically while india is sufficing itself with tactical terror attacks that are not getting them anything except pissing off China & Russia...

 

[SQ8]

What exactly pdf poster want? I dont understand hit India using its brainwashed jihadi terrorists?
All these attacks are done by ISI's own past products.
And just for argument sake lets assume even if somehow devoid of any logic Hindu RAW has ISIS type ally in a place far away from India's reach will any attack on India will go unpunished?
Modi regime will response going much bigger than Air Strike this time and wont shy away from indulging in cruise missile strikes.

Pakistan doesnt have simmilar capabilities to reach deep inside and any numbers in any tit for tat operations.

Please keep such delusions off Pakistani internal security issues. You can use bots because that’s what you guys are essentially anyway.

 

[VCheng]

Please keep such delusions off Pakistani internal security issues. You can use bots because that’s what you guys are essentially anyway.

You deleted his post, before I could ask that IF what he said is true: "Pakistan doesnt have simmilar capabilities to reach deep inside and any numbers in any tit for tat operations" then WHY is India crying itself hoarse as the target of terrorism. Surely, it must mean its claims are false and arising from internal causes. They cannot have it both ways, in complaining about Pakistan and belittling our capabilities at the same time.

Oh wait, logic does not work on mindless bots. My apologies.

 

[Pak Nationalist]

Capability is definitely there, I think at least vis-a-vis what happens on the LOC but not sure wrt overt responses with plausible deniability in the manner that have been conducted in Pakistan in the last few months. Clearly, there is a requirement in terms of the PR perspective for some riposte to be given that is indicative of resolve but not too overt.

It does not add up that why a riposte is not coming based on "plausible deniability" as you said. It is not hard to carry out something and then using shell entities to claim it. There is a growing perception that Indians could only be deterred from undertaking sabotage through covert means by actions of our own. Raising the costs is important. The real puzzle is why this is not being done. What are the factors that are stopping us?

 

[Pakistan First]

So here's a perspective for the young lads out here to think about.

India is targeting Chinese and China's interests in Pakistan. Pakistan is playing pacifist whilst China is fingering India continuously. What does that tell us?

Who among you thinks that "now" with Chinese strategic interests intertwined with Pakistan's, will China sit idle and not do anything about it? And if indeed that is the case, why should Pakistan get distracted and instead of focusing on cleaning its house including its economy, focus on responding to India when China is there to handle her?

 

[Pak Nationalist]

incorrect. there forces still come under frequent attacks, it is even worse this time now that China has jumped into the picture. and the solution to these frequent attacks that the negative iq'd genius sitting in delhi was to stick his head in the ground and wave his @ss up in the air by creating a "media blackout", if he can't see it or hear it then its not happening...what a genius solution!


and by the way, this was a shit thread on your part. Pakistan is neither practicing strategic restraint nor loosing any capabilities. Pakistan is in fact, MOVING strategically while india is sufficing itself with tactical terror attacks that are not getting them anything except pissing off China & Russia...

How many casualties have they taken this year? How many high-profile hits have they taken this year? Contrast that with what we have for this year. China publicly took a stance that was contrary to our post-Dasu (does not happen every day) and it was only after the Chinese said they would send a team to investigate on our own that our government started leaking explosives angle. Chinese are growing impatient with our own inability to thwart hostile actions on our territory. There are real concerns that they could pack up and leave. Our strategic alliance is being threatened and do we have a response to that? If we do, please cite examples. China in fact said it would help Pakistan if it is unable to prevent attacks on joint Sino-Pak interests in Pakistan. That there is a damning indictment of our inability to protect our joint interests.

So here's a perspective for the young lads out here to think about.

India is targeting Chinese and China's interests in Pakistan. Pakistan is playing pacifist whilst China is fingering India continuously. What does that tell us?

Who among you thinks that "now" with Chinese strategic interests intertwined with Pakistan's, will China sit idle and not do anything about it? And if indeed that is the case, why should Pakistan get distracted and instead of focusing on cleaning its house including its economy, focus on responding to India when China is there to handle her?

Interesting perspective. Recent statements emanating from Global times, which is considered CPC's mouthpiece display frustration with Pakistan's inability to protect joint Pak-Chinese interests. You believe that there is an understanding that Pakistan should put its own house in order while the Chinese tackle Indians. Would these not go contrary to this thought?

 

[Pak Nationalist]

Pakistan is waiting for China to end CPEC. Our policies are making sure that soon China says bye bye to CPEC. Our cowardly policy is only going to make sure we bleed more. We need to strike back.

They need our sea and land lines of communication to address their Malacca strait conundrum in the absence of projects like the Thai canal or navigation through Myanamar. It has to be seen how much patience they will have with us.

 

[GumNaam]

How many casualties have they taken this year? How many high-profile hits have they taken this year? Contrast that with what we have for this year. China publicly took a stance that was contrary to our post-Dasu (does not happen every day) and it was only after the Chinese said they would send a team to investigate on our own that our government started leaking explosives angle. Chinese are growing impatient with our own inability to thwart hostile actions on our territory. There are real concerns that they could pack up and leave. Our strategic alliance is being threatened and do we have a response to that? If we do, please cite examples. China in fact said it would help Pakistan if it is unable to prevent attacks on joint Sino-Pak interests in Pakistan. That there is a damning indictment of our inability to protect our joint interests.

Interesting perspective. You believe that there is an understanding that Pakistan should put its own house in order while the Chinese tackle Indians. recent statements emanating out of Global times that are considered CPC's mouthpiece display frustration with Pakistan's inability to protect joint Pak-Chinese interests. Would that not go contrary to this thought?

as I said, they keep media out of iiok and masquerade their casualties & deaths as "car accidents"...doesn't mean they aren't taking a beating. they are but their goi would prefer to have their heads stuck in the ground. 'nuf said.

 

[GumNaam]

We are same species..right. Metaphor is not your subject, I get it. 15: 1 is actually the metaphor here .

Uhm...no we're not, we are carnivorous/omnivorous predators while you are herbivores vegetarians that we hunt & feast upon.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

First, the Chinese embassy was attacked, we did nothing. Some have postulated that Galwan might have been payback for that, regardless, the attack was conducted on our land by Indian proxies and WE did nothing. Then came an attack on PSX soon after the Shanghai stock exchange had bought a 40% stake signaling greater interest in the Pakistani economy, by the same proxies, we did nothing despite the fact that the heart of the Pakistani financial sector was targeted in broad daylight. Then the Chinese ambassador himself had a narrow escape when the Quetta Serena hotel bomb attempt failed.TTP claimed the responsibility. One might ask what beef TTP has with the Chinese, unlike the Baloch secessionist militants. This clearly shows from where TTP took its instructions to orchestrate this attack. And sticking to the pattern, we did nothing. Now the most strategic project (Dasu) that is vital for our water, food, and energy security was brazenly attacked by the same hostile element and if history is the guide here, we would not do anything. Yesterday, two Chinese engineers were injured in a gun attack in Karachi and the responsibility for it was claimed by the Indian proxy again. Few questions arise from these happenings and our continued inability to either thwart enemy designs to drive a wedge between Pakistan and her most steadfast ally OR hitting back in the sub-conventional space as a deterrent.

1. Are we practicing strategic restrain until we rid ourselves of FATF greylist or a favorable end to Afghan conflict? It must be noted that today we have come to a juncture where the Indian side is not even hiding its machinations and Jaishankar gets to openly boast about keeping us on the greylist. Furthermore, is there even a favorable outcome for us to the Afghan conflict? Afghan Taliban are the least trustworthy actors out there. The CNN interview of TTP amir drops hints about operational independence TTP foresees for itself once TTA sweeps across Afghanistan.

2. Why is our intelligence network unable to bust these networks before they do the damage? If Indian intelligence institutions are able to dismantle the modules in Kashmir and elsewhere in India, why are we unable to replicate what we did during the Raheel Shareef era?

3. Why are we not hitting back? Have we lost the capability to do so due to LoC's anti-infiltration grid or the growing capacity of the Indian state to manage its borders and secure the hinterland?

Looking forward to your views on these points and an informed discussion.

One word, "enlighten moderates". In aftermath, there is a clear downfall of Pakistani state and its response to the enemy nations and their belligerence.

 

[Pak Nationalist]

as I said, they keep media out of iiok and masquerade their casualties & deaths as "car accidents"...doesn't mean they aren't taking a beating. they are but their goi would prefer to have their heads stuck in the ground. 'nuf said.

Any thread on finding those hidden casualties? Family posts on social media corroborating what you are suggesting, etc? People in IoK I have interacted with inform me that militancy has all but ended. The fighters are pretty green and have no access to weapons that could even make a dent. In light of testimonies from people on the ground, it is rather difficult to accept this narrative. Any claim made must be backed by evidence.

One word, "enlighten moderates". In aftermath, there is a clear downfall of Pakistani state and its response to the enemy nations and their belligerence.

Is this sustainable? How long could this continue?

 

[GumNaam]

Any thread on finding those hidden casualties? Family posts on social media corroborating what you are suggesting, etc? People in IoK I have interacted with inform me that militancy has all but ended. The fighters are pretty green and have no access to weapons that could even make a dent. In light of testimonies from people on the ground, it is rather difficult to accept this narrative. Any claim made must be backed by evidence.

Is this sustainable? How long could this continue?

did you somehow miss the "media black out" part? how can there be "evidence" if those casualties are being hidden? yes, news filters through every now and then but with very little internet and zero media, it'll be pretty difficult to get the accurate indian casualties but as the indian army chef niravanne implied, infiltration has been continuing until the Feb ceasefire by india. don't worry, he'll soon admit they it actually never stopped. now what do you think those infiltrators have been doing if not butchering the indian sainkis? playing pattycake? needless to say, if the inept indian army was capable of stopping them, they would've been parading the dead bodies of those infiltrators left right and center 24/7 but they are not. Rest assured, Pakistan has mastered the art in asymmetric warfare without attracting attention to itself while the indian army is stuck in the streets of Kashmir & under Chinese boots. don't forget, Pakistan’s aim is to silently kill them, not boast about it. the modi debacle of aug 5th has only given Imran Khan the perfect excuse to divert world's attention from what we are doing to what they are going while we continue to infiltrate only a heck of a lot more. ye sab band darvaazon kay khel hotay hain, they are interested in maximizing enemy casualties without attracting attention to themselves, not running social media threads chest thumping about the enemy casualties just so you can feel better.

 

[Pak Nationalist]

We are same species..right. Metaphor is not your subject, I get it. 15: 1 is actually the metaphor here .

You will not pick up fight with a 15 person group when you are alone...right. if you do, you will be considered as a fool. Your Army has been doing it ...and they are foolish. Despite loosing half your country, they still want to repeat the same mistake. History has a tebdency to repeat, if lessons are not learnt. Anyway, what has to happen, will happen. One more new nation post 1971 in South Asia. Good.

The dismemberment of a country in the midst of a civil war was your military's crowning achievement. You live on the laurels of the past that really aren't as glistening if viewed in their correct historical perspective. The fact that you have to hurt Pakistan by sub-conventional means shows that you know full well that achieving a breakthrough through a conventional armed conflict is not a possibility for you. Now stop polluting my thread where PAKISTANIS are meant to share views on why you are not being countered effectively in the sub-conventional realm and go back to the hole you emerged from.

 

[Peace be there]

We are not discussing India in Ladakh against China. Thread is about various threats Pakistan is facing and its poor response against them

I don't why you needed to bring in famous lynching of Galwan valley in this thread

He was referring to Salala.

 

[GumNaam]

The dismemberment of a country in the midst of a civil war was your military's crowning achievement. You live on the laurels of the past that really aren't as glistening if viewed in their correct historical perspective. The fact that you have to hurt Pakistan by sub-conventional means shows that you know full well that achieving a breakthrough through a conventional armed conflict is not a possibility for you. Now stop polluting my thread where PAKISTANIS are meant to share views on why you are not being countered effectively in the sub-conventional realm and go back to the hole you emerged from.

east Pakistan was 56% of the Pakistani population while west Pakistan was 44%...india helped the majority gain "freedom" the minority...no wonder Bangladeshis laugh at the indian claims, as per them, they would've become independent ANYWAY! if this is the only crowning achievement of the 2nd biggest nation in earth since 73 years after birth them frankly, indians should conduct mass suicide!