Stone Age Soanian Culture (Ancient Pakistan II)

[kalakaar]

The study I quoted has not been debunked as the poster claimed. It is an actual scientific research paper rather than a trash ToI article which seems to peddle the same "out of India" theory that is ridiculed the world over.

Looking at your debating logic, you seem to think of Pakistanis as illegal invaders, hence modern Indians must be true heirs to a region 2000km west of Ganga. That's certifiable delusion.

The studies what you are quoting has nothing to do with you claiming to be the sole owner of anything. You people are Muslims, we are Hindus, you believe in Muhammad we don't. It makes no difference whether there were aryans or Bahaviks or Gandharis or Sindhudeshis what so ever. They were all no believers of Allah and disbelievers of any Yusuf.

The point I am making is, we know who we are and you are trying to copy our traditions (which are anti islamic and not advised to follow in Sharia) as your property but Pakistan got separated because of Islamic identity which has nothing to do with Vedic culture, the vedic people never worshipped Allah ( the Arabic one) or never believed in Muhammad or Ali. The so called Hindus living in Pakistan were reduced to less than one percent, the sindhi Hindus had to migrate to India due to forceful conversion and killings. Why did they migrate because they knew that an anti vedic ideology has caused the destruction and division of the land which never fought on the basis of religion.
So come on dude, next time bring some better logic.

 

[UnitedPak]

The studies what you are quoting has nothing to do with you claiming to be the sole owner of anything. You people are Muslims, we are Hindus, you believe in Muhammad we don't. It makes no difference whether there were aryans or Bahaviks or Gandharis or Sindhudeshis what so ever. They were all no believers of Allah and disbelievers of any Yusuf.

The point I am making is, we know who we are and you are trying to copy our traditions (which are anti islamic and not advised to follow in Sharia) as your property but Pakistan got separated because of Islamic identity which has nothing to do with Vedic culture, the vedic people never worshipped Allah ( the Arabic one) or never believed in Muhammad or Ali. The so called Hindus living in Pakistan were reduced to less than one percent, the sindhi Hindus had to migrate to India due to forceful conversion and killings. Why did they migrate because they knew that an anti vedic ideology has caused the destruction and division of the land which never fought on the basis of religion.
So come on dude, next time bring some better logic.

You are obsessed with religion and this topic of ancestry and heritage has very little to do with religion.

Please move your clueless self to a relevant forum. You are clearly confused as to the purpose of this thread. I am not willing to entertain your asininity anymore.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Every Pakistani history thread gets derailed by Indians promoting this RSS nonsense.

“You are slaves, you are invaders, you are rape products, you are not real Muslims.”

Don’t these qualify as abuse, slander, propaganda, dehumanisation?

I believe this forum would be a much better place if these were ban-able offenses.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

the largest IVC structure and city is in haryana, India, 2 times larger than mohenjo daro. lol
and that Mohenjo daro is also ours only. right now under occupation of invaders.

Can you please provide a link to reliable, genuine, honest and irrefutable evidence as per your claims that those above found indian sites were in fact part of the IVC. If not then you are 100% lying.

1.Your fore father was an invader who illegally occupied the land. Since when you became the owner?
2. And if you are a convert then the invaders forcefully converted your forefathers into their way of theology and traditions. Then you are a slave. You own nothing.
3. And if your forefathers converted by choice this means you people have left the vedic traditions because you don#t find them worth following. In this case you have no right to own them either.

You are going through identity crisis mate. There is a saying, '' dhobhi ka kutta na ghar ka na ghaat ka ''.

Neither you are from Ganga ghaat nor Sindhu ghaat, and arbis don't consider you as pure muslims lol.



The la-la logic as posted by you is '' your source is wrong because its TOI, my source is right because I found them on google''. Any independent source means western source, which can be biased too. So your way of debating is very unprofessional way of debating.

Where is the evidence that the IVC was vedic in nature? Please provide honest, reliable, irrefutable and genuine evidence. If not you are telling lies and spreading misinformation.

study is a study, if you are attaching ''indian nationalism'' to a scientific study then i also question that aryan migration proponists are making BS study you are refering to. you can research more about this matter by name of Toomas Kivisild whose study shows that mtDNA of south asia was resposnible for the population of euroasia when indians migrated to the north in 10,000 BC.

Sorry. Have to strongly disagree. A study or evidence that is indian is immediately null, void and worthless. indian sources regarding EVERYTHING have a LONG history of being outright lies, propaganda, misinformation, fairy tales, made up stories and twisted fantasies. Especially when the TRUTH doesn't fit their narrative or beliefs.

 

[U-571]

Sorry. Have to strongly disagree. A study or evidence that is indian is immediately null, void and worthless. indian sources regarding EVERYTHING have a LONG history of being outright lies, propaganda, misinformation, fairy tales, made up stories and twisted fantasies. Especially when the TRUTH doesn't fit their narrative or beliefs.

AMT has been completely debunked by many geneticists and even archaeologists, this is why now the AMT proponents propose another theory that is aryan trickling theory, in which they propose aryan population trickled down to india for thousands of years.

https://www.harappa.com/sites/default/files/pdf/CulturesSocietiesIndusTrad.pdf

There is no archaeological evidence for invasion, or even large-scale migration into the northwestern subcontinent

When linguists tried to understand the relationship between the Sanskrit language and other classical languages such as Latin and Greek, they coined the word Indo-European, to refer to a large family of related languages that spread from India to Europe (Mallory 1989; Renfrew 1987).

Although many scholars have proposed that the Bactro- Margiana region was inhabited by Indo-Aryan speaking communities, there is no linguistic evidence to support this. Even if these communities did speak Indo-Aryan languages and practice Vedic style sacrifices on fire-alters, there is no indication that political or military leaders from Bactria or other regions of Central Asia invaded the Indus valley and established a new cultural tradition in this area despite the evidence of other forms of contact.

However, the analysis of non-Indo-Aryan linguistic elements in Old Indo Aryan languages (Southworth 2005:64-67) and studies of place names (toponymy) that may indicate the presence of early linguistic communities, it appears that more than one language may have been spoken in the greater Indus Valley (Fairservis and Southworth 1989). For example, rivers in Sindh and Baluchistan have names that can be attributed to Mundari or Dravidian languages even though there are no modern speakers of these languages in the region today. In the Punjab and Afghanistan, the rivers have Indo-Aryan names, while further to the north the names become TibetoBurman or some other language. Future studies of place names need to be undertaken to better understand the implications of these patterns.

 

[kalakaar]

Can you please provide a link to reliable, genuine, honest and irrefutable evidence as per your claims that those above found indian sites were in fact part of the IVC. If not then you are 100% lying.

The irony is you quote Mahabharat to prove something about a particular tribe and the same Mahabharat revolves around Sri Krishna the main personality in the book. And you know where Sri Krishna was born? Mathura, just google where Mathura is.

For us important is to remain dharmic which we are, no matter where. Unlike you, because you are abrahmic, you need land you want to spread Islam, you want to spread Arabic traditions

It wouldnt matter to you where IVC is or where Mathura. The propaganda by you is exposed.

Where is the evidence that the IVC was vedic in nature? Please provide honest, reliable, irrefutable and genuine evidence. If not you are telling lies and spreading misinformation.

I could have given other logic but the below one suits better.
It may or may not be vedic, I don't mind but it was not Islamic for sure. As there was no Mohammad that time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The famous phrase,

''lal meri pat rakhio bhala Jhulelalan, sindhardi da, sehvan da''

Who is this Jhulelal? Most Pakistanis don't know. It's a synonym to rig vedic God, Varun deva copied by Muslim invaders and now address Shahbaz Qalandar a 'human' as Jhulelal. Ask any Sindhi Hindu he would know who Jhulelal is

Baat kartey hai yahan heritage ki
huh!

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

We are Iranic, spreading the Persian-Turk culture of our cousins. What is wrong with that? We have many commonalities with Iran, Afghanistan, Turkey even besides Islam.

Adopting Islam doesn't make us any more Arabic than Christians becoming Jewish for following Jesus.

You want the whole world to become Hindu, spreading yoga and sadhus to Western/Asian countries, yet you have a problem with Pakistanis becoming more Islamic.

Hypocrites.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

The irony is you quote Mahabharat to prove something about a particular tribe and the same Mahabharat revolves around Sri Krishna the main personality in the book. And you know where Sri Krishna was born? Mathura, just google where Mathura is.

For us important is to remain dharmic which we are, no matter where. Unlike you, because you are abrahmic, you need land you want to spread Islam, you want to spread Arabic traditions

It wouldnt matter to you where IVC is or where Mathura. The propaganda by you is exposed.



I could have given other logic but the below one suits better.
It may or may not be vedic, I don't mind but it was not Islamic for sure. As there was no Mohammad that time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The famous phrase,

''lal meri pat rakhio bhala Jhulelalan, sindhardi da, sehvan da''

Who is this Jhulelal? Most Pakistanis don't know. It's a synonym to rig vedic God, Varun deva copied by Muslim invaders and now address Shahbaz Qalandar a 'human' as Jhulelal. Ask any Sindhi Hindu he would know who Jhulelal is

Baat kartey hai yahan heritage ki
huh!

I have no idea what the mahabarat is and have never quoted it. Another lie by an indian. You are trying to change the subject. Now as per your outlandish claims, WHERE is the IRREFUTABLE, GENUINE, RELIABLE & HONEST evidence that the largest IVC site is in india? That it is not a different civilisation that is unrelated to the REAL IVC which is situated in Pakistan?

AMT has been completely debunked by many geneticists and even archaeologists, this is why now the AMT proponents propose another theory that is aryan trickling theory, in which they propose aryan population trickled down to india for thousands of years.

https://www.harappa.com/sites/default/files/pdf/CulturesSocietiesIndusTrad.pdf

Your above source is a pre-2010 analysis which has been thoroughly disproved by a 2017 study based on advanced genetic analysis:

https://www.livescience.com/59703-north-india-populated-by-central-asian-invaders.html

 

[kalakaar]

I have no idea what the mahabarat is and have never quoted it. Another lie by an indian. You are trying to change the subject. Now as per your outlandish claims, WHERE is the IRREFUTABLE, GENUINE, RELIABLE & HONEST evidence that the largest IVC site is in india? That it is not a different civilisation that is unrelated to the REAL IVC which is situated in Pakistan?

I am not posting any link because I know what you going to do next, example is above in the previous post #55

just google Rakhigarhi, its even older than IVC and twice as large as Mohenjo Daro, to my understanding it should be the part of Delhi when it was called as Indraprastha . But the similar traditions of Bhakti and dharma like in.

AND FOR YOUR INFO:

IVC is also known as HARAPPAN CIVILIZATION just because first findings happened here. It has nothing particular with Indus river. The whole North India had similar civilization.

We are Iranic, spreading the Persian-Turk culture of our cousins.

There you go, Shabshh you just proved me right!!

I told, most of the people in Pakistan have identity crisis.

Bravo

keep it up!!

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Gangadeshi's desperate for some civilization still trying to use Indus Pakistan to gain lustre. These aboriginals of Ganga are like Black Africans who try to use Egypt to derive some pride. They call that Afrocentrism. I call the Indian need to use us as way to polish their history "Gangacentrism".

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

There you go, Shabshh you just proved me right!!

I told, most of the people in Pakistan have identity crisis.

Bravo

keep it up!!

Do you think our civilization began with the IVC?

Silly Indian, we are descended from nomads just like the Turks and Persians.

We came to the Indus and settled there.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

only an idiot will comment like you did

what i posted was an article on archeology by a prominent archeologist of indus valley, you are disproving it with genetic study bravo dear

genetic study conducted by prominent indian geneticist has already refuted any bronze age migration directly based on the DNA analysis of ancient indus valley people. what your link proves is nothing based on actual physical evidence but based on biased study and analysis of DNA of swat people, again in the harappa article if you bother to read, it mentions that the culture which existed in near swat didn't have any evidence of advancing towards ganga valley.



https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ryan-invasion-theory/articleshow/64565413.cms

Really?.......you must really be retarded if you think archaeological evidence is more compelling in proving the origins of a peoples than dna evidence????????........ ...........as I said before, only a retard or indian false flagger will believe any indian evidence or sources which are always dubious at best................you have proved that you are a liar and are spreading disinformation. You have been reported for spreading propaganda.

I am not posting any link because I know what you going to do next, example is above in the previous post #55

just google Rakhigarhi, its even older than IVC and twice as large as Mohenjo Daro, to my understanding it should be the part of Delhi when it was called as Indraprastha . But the similar traditions of Bhakti and dharma like in.

AND FOR YOUR INFO:

IVC is also known as HARAPPAN CIVILIZATION just because first findings happened here. It has nothing particular with Indus river. The whole North India had similar civilization.



There you go, Shabshh you just proved me right!!

I told, most of the people in Pakistan have identity crisis.

Bravo

keep it up!!

There is NO evidence which supports your claims. Only dubious indian conjecture. You are knowingly lying and spreading disinformation and fairy tales. You are unknowingly destroying indian myths yourself with your fairy tales, NONE of which can be substantiated.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Punjabi people are very racist

I am not Punjabi and what are you? Indian?

vedic aryans which is gangetic

Vedic Aryans migrated to Ganga from Af-Pak borders. The orginal Ganga's is the trash that you lot classed as 'shudra' and that runs in 100s of millions in India or the typical Indian. You know is Austro-Dravid types that resemble Australian Abos.

 

[U-571]

I am not Punjabi and what are you? Indian?

Vedic Aryans migrated to Ganga from Af-Pak borders. The orginal Ganga's is the trash that you lot classed as 'shudra' and that runs in 100s of millions in India or the typical Indian. You know is Austro-Dravid types that resemble Australian Abos.

australian? some one has definitely filled gobar in your upper chamber.

vedic culture has roots in gangetic plains and archaeological evidences and vedic sites are all located in gangetic plains not indus plains. grey, black and red pottery ware have all been excavated from ganga plains particularly mathura, kushambi etc, all in uttar pradesh, it has nothing to do with indus plains in the first place. vedic literature talks about civilizations in gangetic plains not indus plains, so if you are claiming to be indo aryan then you are claiming to be belonging to gangetic plains unless vedic culture i discovered in indus plains.

if you claim to be indus valley according to AMT, you claim to belonging to dravida culture like south indian

if you are not punjabi, maximum chances are you dont belong neither.

 

[Hamza913]

Punjabi people are very racist, first they claim they are indo aryan (vedic aryans which is gangetic) then they claim they are people of the indus (dravidian in case of aryan theory) and then claim that they are iranic not indic

you guys dont just have identity crises, you guys definitely have much more than that.

Asalamu Alaikum

Since when has any Punjabi claimed to be Iranic? At best, some of us only claim Iranic ancestry (because almost all of us have some, our Eurasian component didn't pop out of thin air).

We all recognise ourselves as Indo-Aryans, that means a mix of the invading Vedic Aryans and the local people of the Indus (by the way, we don't know if they were Dravidians or not).

vedic culture has roots in gangetic plains and archaeological evidences and vedic sites are all located in gangetic plains not indus plains. grey, black and red pottery ware have all been excavated from ganga plains particularly mathura, kushambi etc, all in uttar pradesh, it has nothing to do with indus plains in the first place. vedic literature talks about civilizations in gangetic plains not indus plains, so if you are claiming to be indo aryan then you are claiming to be belonging to gangetic plains unless vedic culture i discovered in indus plains.

if you claim to be indus valley according to AMT, you claim to belonging to dravida culture like south indian

if you are not punjabi, maximum chances are you dont belong neither.

Are you stupid? The Aryans originally came from the Caucasus like all other Europeans. Their original settlements in the sub-continent were along the Indus, specifically in Afghania, the Punjab and Kashmir, which was where they composed the Rig Veda. It was also where they mixed with the natives to form the Indo-Aryans we know today. From there, they expanded to conquer the rest of the sub-continent.

As said before, we don't know the ethnicity/race of the people of IVC.

He's from the Indus, maximum chances are that he has ancestry from both groups.