Some disscussion between me & Kasmiri guys(ex friends now I guess)

[Contrarian]

I am a Kashmiri Man.

A father, brother, son and husband.

I know that I can't have independent nation. Even if it is granted, whoever moves its forces out, other nation may make a move to occupy the land. We will have new LOC but no Independent state.

Since, independent state is out of scope, what options we have. Maximum autonomy ? Well politics will increase and Pro India and Pro-Pakistan lobbies will be the one who will gain as they can ask whatever they want in order to take "Autonomous" decision benefiting which side paid the most.

As for joining either India or Pakistan, I consider the facts that my coming generation will have opportunities especially in economic stability security and more chances of survival. If I am given the choice, to join one, I will look at how Muslims who moved from India to Pakistan were treated and how those who stayed back in India. At any given day, I will see I am safer at current place and I can provide my family basic needs easily.

I will also think that if they consider us Brothers, then why did they send terrorists who killed innocent men women and children ? They did kill their brothers in East, they killed us too. Should we trust them ? They just want water control. They don't love us as they pretend. Its a same mirage they shown to their Eastern brothers. They are safe and sound in their land separated from their brother.

I want acceptance and right to live. Would I be called Muhajir and bombed like Tribals if some terrorist hides in my village ? What if my kids will get AK-47 rather than Advance Knowledge -101.

Would my daughter safely go to school and not shot down. Will my mother be safe and not attacked by any drone ? Will my sister be married to a Engineering than an Extremist ? Hundred questions runs through my mind.

While I think about it and dodge off in sleep, planning about my next day, knowing that an Indian soldier (most probably a Hindu or Sikh) will be awake with his gun in out cold, protecting me from my so called Brothers.

This is not about you if you are a Hindu or Budhist.

The decision of the Kashmiri Muslims is most important in this case because they are a majority.
The point is that they have been brought up on sermons of Jehad, Islam and Pakistan since they were born. The school kids throw stones as a hobby. They became wahhabised slowly but as surely as the sun rises in the East. When they started throwing out Kashmiri Pandits out, they started exhibiting in their actions, what had been brewing in their minds.

That is the problem.

The most fortunate thing that could have happened to us is that Pakistan is in the shape it is now. Earlier days, Pakistan had been created in their minds as a land of opportunities and Islamic brotherhood. However in today's age of media and information, what is happening in Pakistan for the last decade escapes none in Kashmir.

They also see that Pakistan is imploding in the name of Islam. And thus it fuels their rage further that they donot wish to stay with India and yet Pakistan is no longer the golden land they imagined it to be. And they also see that India is growing.

Till some years back Kashmiri muslims treated India with contempt, they tried every act possible to damage India. Always imagining that they would end up either in Pakistan or independent.

Today they see that merging with Pakistan is absolutely impossible. Having an independent Kashmir is also tedious as its not very sustainable.

 

[American Pakistani]

Remove the word India and replace with Pakistan

As they say if wishes were horses p1g$ would fly

yes,you can.

In excitement you post same thing 3 times.

And no why would i want another Kashmir thread to get closed because of indian trolls.

 

[Ayush]

In excitement you post same thing 3 times.

And no why would i want another Kashmir thread to get closed because of indian trolls.[/QUOTE]

nice one mate.

 

[KRAIT]

One question from Pakistanis ?

The person hanged today is Indian or Pakistani according to you ?

Because both claim Kashmir as their part and people of that region will mean people of that country.

One question from Pakistanis ?

The person hanged today is Indian or Pakistani according to you ?

Because both claim Kashmir as their part and people of that region will mean people of that country.

 

[A1Kaid]

They don't want you in their land, what do you expect? You can expect to be hated and opposed.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

I am a Kashmiri Man.

A father, brother, son and husband.

I know that I can't have independent nation. Even if it is granted, whoever moves its forces out, other nation may make a move to occupy the land. We will have new LOC but no Independent state.

Since, independent state is out of scope, what options we have. Maximum autonomy ? Well politics will increase and Pro India and Pro-Pakistan lobbies will be the one who will gain as they can ask whatever they want in order to take "Autonomous" decision benefiting which side paid the most.

As for joining either India or Pakistan, I consider the facts that my coming generation will have opportunities especially in economic stability security and more chances of survival. If I am given the choice, to join one, I will look at how Muslims who moved from India to Pakistan were treated and how those who stayed back in India. At any given day, I will see I am safer at current place and I can provide my family basic needs easily.

I will also think that if they consider us Brothers, then why did they send terrorists who killed innocent men women and children ? They did kill their brothers in East, they killed us too. Should we trust them ? They just want water control. They don't love us as they pretend. Its a same mirage they shown to their Eastern brothers. They are safe and sound in their land separated from their brother.

I want acceptance and right to live. Would I be called Muhajir and bombed like Tribals if some terrorist hides in my village ? What if my kids will get AK-47 rather than Advance Knowledge -101.

Would my daughter safely go to school and not shot down. Will my mother be safe and not attacked by any drone ? Will my sister be married to a Engineering than an Extremist ? Hundred questions runs through my mind.

While I think about it and dodge off in sleep, planning about my next day, knowing that an Indian soldier (most probably a Hindu or Sikh) will be awake with his gun in out cold, protecting me from my so called Brothers.

what's your take on Kashmir's mainstream political parties ? today even the ruling party themselves call afzal guru almost a martyr. It is disgusting to see such attitude is endorsed by Kashmiri politicians.

 

[KRAIT]

few hundred Kashmiri pundits even if stuffed into Kashmir does not change its demography unless the Indian Extremist Hindu groups like RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal bring as you said millions of Indian Hindu pundits to change the demography

RSS, BJP VHP , Bajrang Dal.

Yaar you repeat same thing too much. Be creative. BTW it wasn't few hundreds. Get your facts straight.

 

[Ayush]

One question from Pakistanis ?

The person hanged today is Indian or Pakistani according to you ?

Because both claim Kashmir as their part and people of that region will mean people of that country.

One question from Pakistanis ?

The person hanged today is Indian or Pakistani according to you ?

Because both claim Kashmir as their part and people of that region will mean people of that country.

just wondering why no one is answering your question.
coz the other times,they were like-

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Then why is India afraid of holding referendum? if what you claim is true then you must go for referendum and as per your claim India will win right

India will lose the kashmir valley .If the referendum is done in the whole state taken toegether then also India will lose as kashmir valley population is more than both Jammu and Ladakh combined.If u want an intelligent discussion about J & K , you need to improve ur basic knowledge about the state.

 

[KRAIT]

what's your take on Kashmir's mainstream political parties ? today even the ruling party themselves call afzal guru almost a martyr. It is disgusting to see such attitude is endorsed by Kashmiri politicians.

Well they will loose support and any Political party that will ally with those parties like Congress, will get negative publicity.

Congress will have to distance itself with such parties.

 

[liontk]

what's your take on Kashmir's mainstream political parties ? today even the ruling party themselves call afzal guru almost a martyr. It is disgusting to see such attitude is endorsed by Kashmiri politicians.

Why are you shocked, just look through the HR reports from torture to excessive violence if that mattered to an indienne or pakistani for that matter. The plight of kashmiri people should not be take by inde government atleas I will give credit to pakistan, they want to bring the issue to UN, which I must commend them instead of trying to gain petty territory, @Pakistaniamerican, are those pictures authentic, i thought kashmiris didn't like pakistan because of terrorism, but like they say a picture means a thousand words though I still think the opinion sways towards independance.
Jammu and Kashmir: Hundreds held each year without charge or trial | Amnesty International

 

[KRAIT]

just wondering why no one is answering your question.
coz the other times,they were like-

Well, their basic concepts aren't clear and no fixed stance. What can you expect from confused nation with wrong priorities ?

They are more worried about Afzal Guru than their own people. You can see the discussions on PDF these days.

On a Pakistani forum, India is discussed more than their own country.

 

[liontk]

Well, their basic concepts aren't clear and no fixed stance. What can you expect from confused nation with wrong priorities ?

They are more worried about Afzal Guru than their own people. You can see the discussions on PDF these days.

On a Pakistani forum, India is discussed more than their own country.

Discuss the topic at hand!!!!

 

[KRAIT]

@liontk Have you read HR reports on Pakistan ? If you haven't and want to read, I can give you links of all the HR Reports.

Hope you will learn about other nation too as you are "clearly" a neutral party.

 

[Pakistanisage]

I am a Kashmiri Man.

A father, brother, son and husband.

I know that I can't have independent nation. Even if it is granted, whoever moves its forces out, other nation may make a move to occupy the land. We will have new LOC but no Independent state.

Since, independent state is out of scope, what options we have. Maximum autonomy ? Well politics will increase and Pro India and Pro-Pakistan lobbies will be the one who will gain as they can ask whatever they want in order to take "Autonomous" decision benefiting which side paid the most.

As for joining either India or Pakistan, I consider the facts that my coming generation will have opportunities especially in economic stability security and more chances of survival. If I am given the choice, to join one, I will look at how Muslims who moved from India to Pakistan were treated and how those who stayed back in India. At any given day, I will see I am safer at current place and I can provide my family basic needs easily.
I will also think that if they consider us Brothers, then why did they send terrorists who killed innocent men women and children ? They did kill their brothers in East, they killed us too. Should we trust them ? They just want water control. They don't love us as they pretend. Its a same mirage they shown to their Eastern brothers. They are safe and sound in their land separated from their brother.

I want acceptance and right to live. Would I be called Muhajir and bombed like Tribals if some terrorist hides in my village ? What if my kids will get AK-47 rather than Advance Knowledge -101.

Would my daughter safely go to school and not shot down. Will my mother be safe and not attacked by any drone ? Will my sister be married to a Engineering than an Extremist ? Hundred questions runs through my mind.

While I think about it and dodge off in sleep, planning about my next day, knowing that an Indian soldier (most probably a Hindu or Sikh) will be awake with his gun in out cold, protecting me from my so called Brothers.

I did not know that you were Kashmiri Muslim. Are You ?

As for your comment about how Muslims who moved from India to Pakistan are treated is hilarious and laughable.

Krait , My Parents were born in Dehli ( Not Delhi ) and so were 30 generations of my MUGHAL ancesters.

In 1947 , my grandparents and my parents moved to Pakistan. If you want to ask a Pakistani how Muslims who migrated from India are treated , ask me. I was born and raised in Pakistan.

MY FRIEND, I AM A SO CALLED MUHAJIR ( I HATE THAT WORD BECAUSE I WAS BORN IN PAKISTAN ) AND I AM A " KING " IN PAKISTAN.

Nobody treats the descendents of Indian Muslims badly in Pakistan. The Children of Muslims who came from India are the most Patriotic Pakistanis. Stop listening to the Propaganda of some oppotunistic ignorant fool like ALTAF HUSSAIN.

Heck, two of the Indian Muslims who migrated from India became the Presidents of Pakistan (Real Heads of state, as there were no PM in their govt's).

1. President Pervez Musharraf born in daryaganj, Dehli (1943)

2. President Zia ul Haq born in Jalandhar, India ( 1924 ).

So don't tell me how Indian Muslims are treated in Pakistan without knowing what you are talking about.

In Pakistan, I am treated with utmost respect. Had my Grandparents and Parents not moved to Pakistan , today I would be treated like Indian Muslims whose religion is mocked on a daily basis in India and where Indian Muslim is a second class citizen.

This the main difference between someone like me whose parents moved to Pakistan and those Muslims left behind in India.

I am treated as a first class Citizen of Pakistan and an Indian Muslim is a second class Citizen in India.

If you want to know how KASHMIRIS are treated in Pakistan, ask my brother @Armstrong how he is treated in Pakistan. He will be glad to educate you. So stop living in fool's paradise and making stuff up about how indian Muslims are treated in Pakistan.

By the way, I seriously doubt you are Kashmiri Muslim as I have not seen those words from you even though you are implying that. If you are a Kashmiri, you are a hindu kashmiri because I do not get the Muslim vibe from you