Slow poisoned academia?

[Dubious]

I would disagree, leader, and say the main problem is that our student and our teacher is not actually free to think: we do not allow each other to.explore in the fear that we would.become non-conformists.

More like they are always jealous elements who do not want the other to succeed...seen it happen to my own cousins...with the dept saying thank you now you can back out of the research ...we have it under control from here...this is after my cousin's team started it, collected data and analyzed it ....with such SENIORS AND MENTORS...he went off to USA and is much more established there while his research in Pakistan hasnt moved since he was removed!! So...there is more crap going on then 1 wishes to address!

 

[jaibi]

So you can't support your statement.

"Schools during the golden era of Islam around 1400 were way better than the founding of collages in Cambridge or Oxford.",




Only thing that comes close to your assertion was never a "school" in anwyay.


It was called "House of wisdom" or in Arabic Bayt al-Hikma of 9th century. It was essentially a library, research center, all combined into one.


Most of the work was focused on translating greek, roman and Sanskrit books.


However it did produce some really great researchers and authors.

Too bad the thing fell into disrepair in few decades all thanks to al-Mutawakkil's more literal interpretation of the Qur'an and Hadith.


So in some sense there is no equivalent to Oxford and Cambridge that ever existed in Iraq and not at all 1400 years ago.



Please do not spread ignorance in the name of Islam.


Thank you.

There is an excellent piece done on this called 'The Intellectual Collapse' by A. NAEEM if I.m bot mistaken. He proposes the same events.

 

[FaujHistorian]

.....


HEARD of it but never managed to find an authentic source...coz the "thesis" was written many years later from a man with his own thinking then back then as to what really was going on...

Off course you cannot find a MS word file from 9th century.

Not happening.

However the struggle between Mullahs and Ayatullahs who peddled interpretation based on Quran and Sunnah,

vs.

rationalists (like Mutazalli Islam followed by Mamun) is documented.

We also have the writings of Ibn Rush vs. Ghazali.


But Yes I agree there is no MS world file you can find from that period.

Peace

 

[Leader]

I remember those scholarships were hot cakes...being sold off to Arabs and Pakistanis....coz they thought a Pakistani doing the research and publishing will get more sell than a gora doing it!! It was big news and propaganda!

Another way to look at it maybe a gora might not be able to collect the "required and true data" as a local would..not sure but yea I remember those scholarships were a big hit after 9/11 when all the analysts were giving feedback without every being in an Arab environment or a Pakistani household

Exactly.. you can find such position papers and so called thesis on internet as well. typical jargon language and no real substance or data to support, with obvious conclusion favoring state policy against muslims.

 

[Dubious]

@ Talon you seem to be attacking the source that is the poster with such remarks as keeping his act.right. @Faujihistorian is attacking your claim, not you.

I am asking him to get his act right is not an attack but a reminder to stick to the topic

 

[jaibi]

and that is all I was pointing out before @FaujHistorian brought in his phobia...


HEARD of it but never managed to find an authentic source...coz the "thesis" was written many years later from a man with his own thinking then back then as to what really was going on...

That is very good I.m not saying stop just to be civil. The word ' thesis' is used literally here and not referring to an actual thesis, madam.

 

[FaujHistorian]

There is an excellent piece done on this called 'The Intellectual Collapse' by A. NAEEM if I.m bot mistaken. He proposes the same events.

BTW we can also look at the lack of intellectual development and their attitudes from a much recent past Indian Pakistani Muslims (back then all were British Indians)

when

Sir Syed Ahmad Khan was attacked by Mullahs and Ayatullahs.

This great man was ridiculed in the streets and in the moques

He was cursed

and called the then derogatory name as "Naturee" from the word Nature,

 

[Dubious]

They actually wanted people from within the region to put up an indigenous perspective, it follows the influence of Critical Theory on the social sciences in particular. It.s still being done in almost all other fields as an example see the ZEF programme of Bonn University.

And have you read those papers?

INDIGENOUS perspective is a nice cover up esp when the supervisor was not from the region and knew nothing but was always "editing out" many of the facts to make sure future findings will continue ...and now "ANALYSTS and CRITICS" alike quote these sad papers as FACTS! while the Arab or Pakistani gets to get a degree from a foreign country...and ladies and gentlemen that is how it is done!

 

[M. Sarmad]

So let me take the first step. The Department of History, Forman Christian College is hosting a lecture by Dr Rajmohan Gandhi, Professor at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, on Abdul Ghaffar Khan followed by the book launch of his recent superb book entitled Punjab: from Aurangzeb to Mountbatten, at which Dr Mubashar Hasan, Ms Jugnu Mohsin and Mr Raza Rumi will speak. It is on December 5, 2013 at 3pm and all of you are invited.

This is awesome. Given time, I plan to travel and attend this book ceremony.

And how exactly will you attend a ceremony that was planned for 5th dec (3 days ago)??

On Topic : I think that a very important thing has not been discussed here ...
We produce a lot of good doctors and engineers ,
our education system and our priorities are about "a secure future"
Only those who are unable to get anywhere else in life end up in "Teaching Profession" which unfortunately had been the lowest paid and the least rewarding one ...
Untill Musharraf`s time when remarkable benefits were announced for qualified teachers (lets give the devil his due share)
Without the most brilliant brains making up our academia , its impossible to achieve any organic intellectual growth in the society

 

[jaibi]

More like they are always jealous elements who do not want the other to succeed...seen it happen to my own cousins...with the dept saying thank you now you can back out of the research ...we have it under control from here...this is after my cousin's team started it, collected data and analyzed it ....with such SENIORS AND MENTORS...he went off to USA and is much more established there while his research in Pakistan hasnt moved since he was removed!! So...there is more crap going on then 1 wishes to address!

True, I.ve seen such events happen as well. Another tragedy that happens is when our mentors and.teachers.deliberately suppress or use talent such as publishing student's researchs under their own name.

 

[Dubious]

That is very good I.m not saying stop just to be civil. The word ' thesis' is used literally here and not referring to an actual thesis, madam.

Likewise! Would you prefer article, journal, scripture?

On Topic : I think that a very important thing has not been discussed here ...
We produce a lot of good doctors and engineers ,
our education system and our priorities are about "a secure future"
Only those who are unable to get anywhere else in life end up in "Teaching Profession" which unfortunately had been the lowest paid and the least rewarding one ...

Ok that is disgusting thinking (I am talking about general thinking which sways that way)...Teachers are what build our future by teaching our future generation! It is sad they are not taken seariously in Asia and deemed as the last straw...

Untill Musharraf`s time when remarkable benefits were announced for qualified teachers (lets give the devil his due share)
Without the most brilliant brains making up our academia , its impossible to achieve any organic intellectual growth in the society

yes indeed

 

[jaibi]

And have you read those papers?

INDIGENOUS perspective is a nice cover up esp when the supervisor was not from the region and knew nothing but was always "editing out" many of the facts to make sure future findings will continue ...and now "ANALYSTS and CRITICS" alike quote these sad papers as FACTS! while the Arab or Pakistani gets to get a degree from a foreign country...and ladies and gentlemen that is how it is done!

That mainly happens in papers relating to.politics, madam. If you read papers on.economics, development, health, sociology and psychology you would not see that. It's sad that politics got involved after 9/11 but universities are.resisting this as an example see the research done on Indian corruption by the Harvard Kennedy School of Governance.

 

[Dubious]

True, I.ve seen such events happen as well. Another tragedy that happens is when our mentors and.teachers.deliberately suppress or use talent such as publishing student's researchs under their own name.

Oh dont worry it happens actively in Eastern Europe as well as Western Europe...

I can vouch for that!!

That mainly happens in papers relating to.politics, madam. If you read papers on.economics, development, health, sociology and psychology you would not see that. It's sad that politics got involved after 9/11 but universities are.resisting this as an example see the research done on Indian corruption by the Harvard Kennedy School of Governance.

Yes like I said post 9/11....but I think I forgot to mention it has somewhat recovered a little now...SOMEWHAT...

 

[jaibi]

And how exactly will you attend a ceremony that was planned for 5th dec (3 days ago)??

On Topic : I think that a very important thing has not been discussed here ...
We produce a lot of good doctors and engineers ,
our education system and our priorities are about "a secure future"
Only those who are unable to get anywhere else in life end up in "Teaching Profession" which unfortunately had been the lowest paid and the least rewarding one ...
Untill Musharraf`s time when remarkable benefits were announced for qualified teachers (lets give the devil his due share)
Without the most brilliant brains making up our academia , its impossible to achieve any organic intellectual growth in the society

The PPP government did cut off a lot of HEC powers I was happy to see the academia take a stand.

 

[Dubious]

Well said.

Rational thinking is discouraged, nay destroyed by the fellow Pakistanis.

Instead faith based mumbo jumbo is peddled in the hopes of securing front row seats in Jannat.


peace

Which madrassah did you study in to spew such hate? I have not read nor heard of such mumbo jumbo as of yet from any of my cousins studying in uni or aunts who are teaching and in research centers