Singh says not clear who controls Pakistan army

[RobbieS]

I don't buy the theory that the coups helped the thugs rally support. Pakistanis have had a history of electing leaders on ethnic lines. People should additionally know that despite the coups, there is no reason for these thugs to come back in power. Illiteracy and lack of education is the problem.

I'd say it goes much beyond illiteracy and lack of education. Its more about the machinations of the powerful and the power struggle between the militarists and the feudals.

Another theory to explain army's behaviour, could be that people like Musharaf, Ayub and Zia werent feudals or rich land owners themselves. So when they came to power, after some time they and their cronies saw it as a chance to fill their coffers and expand their power base. That feeds the cycle for the next round of rulers.

I may be wrong in this analysis but I draw my inferences from similar cases on our side of the border. Many times simple minded elected reps. turn corrupt and self serving once in power.

 

[RPK]

The Hindu : News / National : I do not know whom to deal with in Pakistan: Manmohan
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh says he does not know whom to deal with in Pakistan noting that the Army is the most powerful force in that country and that it is virtually wielding power.

“I think the most elemental force in Pakistan is the Army ... We have to recognise that the power today virtually rests with the Army ... I do not think whether we have a partner right now,” he said, adding, “I do not know whom to deal with.”

Dr. Singh accused Pakistan of not doing enough to bring to book the perpetrators of the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks observing that a “friendly” government there would be equally determined to tackle terrorism and take the case to its logical conclusion. “That is not happening.”

“No, they [Pakistan] have not done enough,” Dr. Singh told CNN in an interview taken in New Delhi and aired minutes before he arrived in Washington on the first state visit of the Obama Administration.

Asked if he believed that the Pakistan Army was serious in tackling terrorists, Dr. Singh said he was not certain if the military would take on those elements.

“There is democracy. We would like democracy to succeed and flourish in Pakistan, but we have to recognise that the power today virtually rests with the Army,” he said.

The Prime Minister said he did not think that India had a partner in Pakistan today.

“I do not think we have a partner right now. I think, when General Pervez Musharraf [was the President] I was to ask him and he said well I am the Army, I represent the armed forces, I represent the people. Now I do not know whom to deal with,” he said.

Dr. Singh said there could be no redrawing of borders in Kashmir.

“I have publicly stated that there can be no redrawing of borders [in Jammu and Kashmir],” the Prime Minister said.

“... but our two countries can work together to ensure that these are borders of peace, that people-to-people contacts grow in a manner in which people do not even worry whether they are located on this side of the border or that side.”

 

[Xeric]

Democracy in Pakistan:

Political Parties are merely a group of ethnically bonded people who are just together because they can afford it.

Politics in Pakistan is passed on hereditarily; father/mother>son/daughter.

Politics in Pakistan is a family ritual as opposed a public one.

If this what democracy is that the yanks tell us or practice, then we may accept it, otherwise, no thankyou sir....BUT, it doesnt mean that the solution is in a coup! The solution for a failed democracy is MORE democracy, we should let the system mature and the people then would themselves filter out crooks and system would ultimately come down to two-party system.

 

[Hulk]

What MMS is saying is not entirely wrong. Is it not true that in Pakistan if Army does not like any decision of GOP it can force government to change it. Also I am a little confuse between PM and President, sometimes it is PM and sometimes it is president. In India PM is supreme and in US President is supreme.
Don't you think Zardari currently has powers that can overrule Parliament.

 

[SMC]

Singh: 'I should learn to mind my own business.'

 

[Xeric]

Here comes another stunt from the all intelligent indian COAS:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...ll-active-pakistan-army-chief.html#post559914

 

[Spring Onion]

Here comes another stunt from the all intelligent indian COAS:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...ll-active-pakistan-army-chief.html#post559914

Kapoora failed to know the exact number of training camps by Naxals in his own country but he has a great sense of humour when he think using his brain from the bottom to count the camps while sitting in India.

 

[rajeev]

Kapoora failed to know the exact number of training camps by Naxals in his own country but he has a great sense of humour when he think using his brain from the bottom to count the camps while sitting in India.

The issue is that Jana, Naxals are attacking Indian cops, whereas Pakistani "freedom fighters" and "strategic assets" are attacking India, US, NATO, China, Iran and some in there even attack the host ie. Pakistan.

So Naxal happens to be internal matter and only affects India. These terrorists outfits are not!

Gen. Kapoor is military chief and responsible to direct government on external threats and manage the military resources.

Does that make it clear for you! Just because Indias has poor naxals who want Maoism in India, even when China turned to be more capitalist country than US is an irony in itself, that does not vindicate terrorist outfits in India's most friendly country.

 

[Xeric]

The issue is that Jana, Naxals are attacking Indian cops, whereas Pakistani "freedom fighters" and "strategic assets" are attacking India, US, NATO, China, Iran and some in there even attack the host ie. Pakistan.

So Naxal happens to be internal matter and only affects India. These terrorists outfits are not!

Gen. Kapoor is military chief and responsible to direct government on external threats and manage the military resources.

Does that make it clear for you! Just because Indias has poor naxals who want Maoism in India, even when China turned to be more capitalist country than US is an irony in itself, that does not vindicate terrorist outfits in India's most friendly country.

That was the most weird and confused reply ever!

And then someone thanks it!!

 

[Iggy]

That was the most weird and confused reply ever!

And then someone thanks it!!

Its weird and confused to you because you dont want to understand what he is saying

 

[Solomon2]

I sometimes wonder how much the Pakistani Army controls the Pakistani Army? If they follow their parent, the British Army, great emphasis is put on an officer's leadership initiative, rather than following the chain-of-command, even on strategic matters. I think Winston Churchill once said the idea is that the commander doesn't actually give an order to do something, as much as create the opportunity for the underling to do so.

Carried to an extreme, I suppose this could mean that a Pakistani officer could train and employ terrorist attacks against India, while his commanding general could state, truthfully, that he never gave the order to do so. All that's needed to make the system work is to shield those lower down via the old-boys' network.

Isn't that what we've seen happening after the Mumbai attack? The LeT commander was given a very loose house arrest, and Pakistan stated that no evidence gathered from its own sources could apply to a prosecution, only evidence gathered from others.

 

[mjnaushad]

I sometimes wonder how much the Pakistani Army controls the Pakistani Army? If they follow their parent, the British Army, great emphasis is put on an officer's leadership initiative, rather than following the chain-of-command, even on strategic matters. I think Winston Churchill once said the idea is that the commander doesn't actually give an order to do something, as much as create the opportunity for the underling to do so.

Carried to an extreme, I suppose this could mean that a Pakistani officer could train and employ terrorist attacks against India, while his commanding general could state, truthfully, that he never gave the order to do so. All that's needed to make the system work is to shield those lower down via the old-boys' network.

Isn't that what we've seen happening after the Mumbai attack? The LeT commander was given a very loose house arrest, and Pakistan stated that no evidence gathered from its own sources could apply to a prosecution, only evidence gathered from others.

Yeah right. If you see things only in negative way. Or should i say only in Anti Pakistan way than i cannot help you. Because if we change the whole system you'll still see it the same way.

 

[Xeric]

Its weird and confused to you because you dont want to understand what he is saying

Let me clear your brilliance:

The issue is that Jana, Naxals are attacking Indian cops, whereas Pakistani "freedom fighters" and "strategic assets" are attacking India, US, NATO, China, Iran and some in there even attack the host ie. Pakistan.

So he means that any terrorist act that takes place in the world is from Pakistan?

Let's take the recent Assam case, you didnt point finger towards Pakistan read ISI this time, why? May be you have grown up!

Moreover, even if we all accept that ALL the terrorists actually come from Pakistan, the point of concern should be that if they are state sponsored of Non-State Actors? If it is the latter case, then we have to see is the GoP doing the needful to counter them or not, the answer comes to a very BIG YES!!

How's that about being confused?

So Naxal happens to be internal matter and only affects India. These terrorists outfits are not!

Gen. Kapoor is military chief and responsible to direct government on external threats and manage the military resources.

Does that make it clear for you! Just because Indias has poor naxals who want Maoism in India, even when China turned to be more capitalist country than US is an irony in itself, that does not vindicate terrorist outfits in India's most friendly country.

i never knew that the indian constitution is barring its Army from the responsibility of Internal Security and the Duties In the Aid of Civil Power!! You do we agree that indian army is solely responsible for the external threats and non of the internal ones (if need be-matters getting out of CAF's hand). If that be the case, india would be the first one to be of its kind, because every country bounds its armed forces for internal security matters!

How about that being weird??

 

[Iggy]

Let me clear your brilliance:


So he means that any terrorist act that takes place in the world is from Pakistan?

Let's take the recent Assam case, you didnt point finger towards Pakistan read ISI this time, why? May be you have grown up!

Moreover, even if we all accept that ALL the terrorists actually come from Pakistan, the point of concern should be that if they are state sponsored of Non-State Actors? If it is the latter case, then we have to see is the GoP doing the needful to counter them or not, the answer comes to a very BIG YES!!

How's that about being confused?




i never knew that the indian constitution is barring its Army from the responsibility of Internal Security and the Duties In the Aid of Civil Power!! You do we agree that indian army is solely responsible for the external threats and non of the internal ones (if need be-matters getting out of CAF's hand). If that be the case, india would be the first one to be of its kind, because every country bounds its armed forces for internal security matters!

How about that being weird??

He didn't said that any terrorist act that takes place in the world is from Pakistan but every terrorist organizations inside Pakistan has links to one or more terrorist attacks outside Pakistan ..Can you deny that?? and also can you tell me what your government steps taken against non state actors who works against India??your government is still trying to defend JuD saying that its a charitable organization..Every body knows that its a new name of banned LeT...Do you honestly believed that changing a name of an organization will change its agenda??? And also tell me how many bombings our Indian naxalites did outside my country?


From which of his statement did you get this idea that "Indian constitution is barring its Army from the responsibility of Internal Security and the Duties In the Aid of Civil Power ?" ..He said "Gen. Kapoor is military chief and responsible to direct government on external threats and manage the military resources." can you tell me any statement from him stating that Indian Army is not responsible for internal security??Twisting a statement doesn't mean it can be right...

Now tell me whats weird in it??

 

[Xeric]

He didn't said that any terrorist act that takes place in the world is from Pakistan but every terrorist organizations inside Pakistan has links to one or more terrorist attacks outside Pakistan ..Can you deny that?? and also can you tell me what your government steps taken against non state actors who works against India??your government is still trying to defend JuD saying that its a charitable organization..Every body knows that its a new name of banned LeT...Do you honestly believed that changing a name of an organization will change its agenda??? And also tell me how many bombings our Indian naxalites did outside my country?

If you want me to beleive this propaganda, i am sorry, i wont!

From which of his statement did you get this idea that "Indian constitution is barring its Army from the responsibility of Internal Security and the Duties In the Aid of Civil Power ?" ..He said "Gen. Kapoor is military chief and responsible to direct government on external threats and manage the military resources." can you tell me any statement from him stating that Indian Army is not responsible for internal security??Twisting a statement doesn't mean it can be right...

Now tell me whats weird in it??

Well he tried to tell us all that as the IA is (solely) responsible for the EXTERNAL threats therefore (it is kinda) bared from it's IS duties. That's what is weird!

Now if you didnt understand what he wrote, i cant help it.