Should Pakistan recognize Israel?

[Clutch]

That does mean anything.
It really does not make sense, an answer is an answer, not an insinuation nor a conspiracy theory.

Most of us are blinded by the word Israel, we have nothing but emotional answers, please get past it and start thinking clearly.

Almost all analysts are also stating that by recognizing Israel it impacts Pakistan's position on Kashmir. Because under the same scenario, it could be argued India exists and it's occupation of Kashmir is a reality. If you forgo the Palestinians v... You will also loose the Kashmir argument.

 

[Clutch]

Pakistan is irrelevant, we don't care about you and we don't need to sanction you or attack you with the Mossad

Then why are you here? Why don't you join the Swaziland Defence Forum to enjoy irrelevance?

 

[Max]

Nothing. Pakistan have diplomatic relations with almost all, not recognizing one won't change anything.

Do you think they will start loving Saudi and GCC after they recognize illegitimate child of western colonists? I don't think they will stop until they completely destroy Arabs.

I do believe that we should recognize non disputed part of Armenia though.

 

[niaz]

Pakistan & Israel have never fought a war. Albeit there were rumors of an alleged Israeli plot to attack Pakistan atomic facilities at Kahuta during the 1980s & 1990s. Israel may have contingency plans to such effect but there is no concrete evidence that these ‘Plans’ ever proceeded beyond the planning stage. There is a high probability that this rumor was based upon the successful Israeli attack on Iraq’s Osirak reactor. I always take such unverified stories with a large pinch of salt.

Only armed action came from Pakistan’s side when a PAF pilot on deputation to Syria shot down an Israel jet. There is no history of Israel being directly involved in an actual attack of Pakistan.

Based on the above, it would appear a bit hypercritical that while Egypt, who fought 3 wars with Israel in 1956, 1967 & 1973, had made peace with Israel and Jordan, whose lands were captured in 1967 war, has full diplomatic relations with Israel; Pakistan has repeatedly refused to do so. Pakistan has not recognized Israel to show the solidarity of Pakistani people with the Palestinians. Primarily because the struggle of independence of the Kashmiris from Indian occupation and that of the Palestinians of the West Bank & Gaza are quite similar.

Pakistanis should however realize that it is not a "Muslim versus Jew" problem but an "Arab versus Jew" dispute because there are nearly 400,000 Christian Arab Palestinians who have also been suffering along with their Muslim Arab brethren under the Israeli occupation.

Please remember that “Recognition” of a country does not mean that you also become chummy with the country or her citizens. Even after fighting 4 wars, we never broke off diplomatic relations with India and the situation is still very tense. Therefore there is little reason not to have even low-level diplomatic relations say at the level of Charge d’Affaires with Isreal. Pakistan can also contribute more toward Palestinian cause if we can officially talk to the Israelis.

However, there is no need to rush. We should wait to see if other Arab countries such as Bahrain, Oman & Saudi Arabia follow the UAE and also recognize Israel. If that happens then Pakistan should do so as well.

Being Pakistani myself, I am aware that we are emotional people and prefer to think from the seat of our pant instead of using the brain. We burnt the US embassy in response to the attack on ‘Kaaba’ without trying to find out who did it. As it unfolded later that the USA was not involved in any way whatsoever. Besides, recognizing Israel would require a 'Paradigm' shift and Imran Khan is too much of a lightweight to dare it.

Hence I would not be surprised if Pakistanis are never able to visit Islam’s third holiest site (Dome of Rock) because Pakistan remains the lone country in the world that does not recognize Israel.

 

[Clutch]

Israel's Mossad chief visits UAE for security talks: state media

AFP 18 Aug 2020
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The United States, Israel and UAE, along with some other Gulf states, have a common foe in Iran. — AFP/File
Israel's Mossad spy agency chief Yossi Cohen visited the United Arab Emirates (UAE) for security talks, Emirati state media reported on Tuesday, days after the two countries agreed to establish diplomatic ties.

Cohen discussed “cooperation in the fields of security” and regional developments with the UAE's national security adviser, Sheikh Tahnoun bin Zayed Al Nahyan, in Abu Dhabi, reported the official WAM news agency.




The United States, Israel and UAE, along with some other Gulf states, have a common foe in Iran.

Cohen's trip marked the first visit to the UAE by an Israeli official after the announcement last week by US President Donald Trump that the two countries had agreed to normalise relations.

ARTICLE CONTINUES AFTER AD
As part of the deal, the Jewish state agreed to suspend the annexation of occupied West Bank territories, although Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the plan was not off the table in the long run.

The Israel-UAE deal is only the third such accord Israel has struck with an Arab country, and raises the prospect of similar deals with other pro-Western Gulf states.

Trump said leaders from the two countries would sign the agreement at the White House in the coming weeks.

Speaking to reporters later, Trump suggested that more diplomatic breakthroughs between Israel and its Muslim neighbours in the region were expected.

 

[Clutch]

Israel's Mossad chief visits UAE for security talks: state media

AFP 18 Aug 2020
Facebook Count
Twitter Share
0

The United States, Israel and UAE, along with some other Gulf states, have a common foe in Iran. — AFP/File
Israel's Mossad spy agency chief Yossi Cohen visited the United Arab Emirates (UAE) for security talks, Emirati state media reported on Tuesday, days after the two countries agreed to establish diplomatic ties.

Cohen discussed “cooperation in the fields of security” and regional developments with the UAE's national security adviser, Sheikh Tahnoun bin Zayed Al Nahyan, in Abu Dhabi, reported the official WAM news agency.




The United States, Israel and UAE, along with some other Gulf states, have a common foe in Iran.

Cohen's trip marked the first visit to the UAE by an Israeli official after the announcement last week by US President Donald Trump that the two countries had agreed to normalise relations.

ARTICLE CONTINUES AFTER AD
As part of the deal, the Jewish state agreed to suspend the annexation of occupied West Bank territories, although Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the plan was not off the table in the long run.

The Israel-UAE deal is only the third such accord Israel has struck with an Arab country, and raises the prospect of similar deals with other pro-Western Gulf states.

Trump said leaders from the two countries would sign the agreement at the White House in the coming weeks.

Speaking to reporters later, Trump suggested that more diplomatic breakthroughs between Israel and its Muslim neighbours in the region were expected.

MOSSAD and RAW are.working together... So perhaps Mossad is talking to UAE to start setting up camp in Abu Dhabi and Dubai to forment Terrorism in Iran and Pakistan???

 

[ziaulislam]

1. What should pakistan do?
2. What are the risks to Pakistan if it remains one of the only states that doesn't recognize Israel (exception Iran)?
3. Would the new Zionist-Western-Arab alliance then place Pakistan in the same camp as Iran and destroy Pakistan via same sanctions?
4. Is it time to join the Dejaali camp in order to survive or die with honor?
5. With Arab states making peace with Israel... Mossad and Israel will wage full scale war against Pakistan with through India and directly. Can Pakistan handle the heat?
6. Without Iranian oil, is Pakistan prepared to for the global onslaughts ... Even the UAE and Saudi Arabia the new Allies of Israel will be supporting terror outfits like TTP and Jahil Mullahs to break pakistan. Can a poor Pakistan survive the new Zionist Arab onslaughts?
7. With the world Bank under Zionist control, can an indebted pakistan survive without loans?

Facing Zionist Dajaali Israel requires men with spines of steel..... Do we?

this is not an Arab-isral issue

its Palestine -isral issue

if Palestinians agree to a deal then we would be in a real fix

 

[Clutch]

Pakistanis should however realize that it is not a "Muslim versus Jew" problem but an "Arab versus Jew" dispute because there are nearly 400,000 Christian Arab Palestinians who have also been suffering along with their Muslim Arab brethren under the Israeli occupation.

Please remember that “Recognition” of a country does not mean that you also become chummy with the country or her citizens

Well they are setting up telecommunications, business, travel, security, military, and Mossad links... It's as chummy chummy as it gets.

It's not a Muslim versus Jew issue correct.... But it is a Muslim versus Zionist issue. Which is different.

 

[Clutch]

this is not an Arab-isral issue

its Palestine -isral issue

if Palestinians agree to a deal then we would be in a real fix

Palestinians are almost all exterminated... They remainder in Palestine live in an open air prison...

 

[ziaulislam]

we need money. we have so much gold we can and should mine to pay off debt and boost economy

there is the problem..
this world is driven by knowledge and work..not by gold..there are no shortcuts

get 100% priamry education and put all those "farigh" people into work force..

ask china what they did..they willt el you..

first declare an education emergency, if everyone is educated(primary education), the digital economy will thrive
second, provide free technical education in specific fields.
third, give utilities to industry and free land, yes literally all you seashore is barren..you cant expect an to pay 100 million for small piece of land, where will be the capital left then?
fourth, to ensure macroeconomic stability carefully look at your import bill, see what we a substitute

has govt did any of the above..No

 

[ziaulislam]

Pakistanis should however realize that it is not a "Muslim versus Jew" problem but an "Arab versus Jew" dispute because there are nearly 400,000 Christian Arab Palestinians who have also been suffering along with their Muslim Arab brethren under the Israeli occupation.

not anymore, its now Palestinians vs jews issues

arabs now consider jews as arabs too, i wont be surprised if Israel becomes a part of arab league

 

[Xone]

Muslims have lost much in the shape of territory, humanity, morality, and many more. Now we are the verge of losing our Emaan perhaps. May Allah protect us. Pakistan has done all to protect its solidarity and freedom.
Collective efforts bear better results. Pakistan had played its role and will do the same in the future.
Iran had been the main cause of many problems Muslims today are confronting especially in the gulf.

 

[ziaulislam]

Palestinians are almost all exterminated... They remainder in Palestine live in an open air prison...

isreal has 6.6 m jews, 1.6 million Arabs(who have accepted isrel and apllied for citizenship)

while surrounding areas(gaza) has 3 million Palestinians

not include the refugees outside Palestine in other arab countries

 

[peagle]

Almost all analysis are also stating that by recognizing Israel it impacts Pakistan's position on Kashmir. Because under the same scenario, it could be argued India exists and it's occupation of Kashmir is a reality. If you forgo the Palestinians v... You will also loose the Kashmir argument.

No, sir, it does not,
If we recognized neither of the countries, then yes it would impact the Kashmir argument, but the conclusions being reached here so far come from lazy intellectualism, without recognizing that what has not worked for 70 years is obviously not a sound policy.

We are ready to negotiate with India on Kashmir, it is India that is being stubborn and childish, how would we resolve Kashmir, if we took the same position with India as we have against Israel, we could not. We have taken contrary positions on these disputes, and somehow we think it is logical. Because it is easier than to ask tough questions.

I have made an effort, so I can make a valuable contribution to your thread, by giving a detailed point by point reply.

I can not see a single person here who has attempted to challenge my points on a point by point basis, I do not think I have all the answers, but I have made reasoned arguments, they can only be discussed if challenged on a reasoned point by point basis, not emotions or conspiracies but reason and logic.

All I see here is a bunch of personal statements in a sentence form or a paragraph, with emotional arguments or repetition of the same line that has not worked for 70 years, 70 years, 70 years, I do not know how often it has to be repeated before people realize, that a policy is not set in stone, policies are made for the desired result.
And, when that result is not achieved, you recognize that the policy needs to amended, changed, or gotten rid of, anything but to keep the same policy.

I was hoping for a proper point by point discussion but hasn't happened, so there you go.
I've statted what I believe to be a sensible approach, I will not be contributing to this thread anymore,
unless someone provides a point by point reply to my arguments, with reasons. Thank you.

 

[JonAsad]

Pakistan will accept Israel on its own.. End of Story...