Should Pakistan recognize Israel?

[luoshan]

How does the official Pakistani map for Middle-east look like? Does it show Israel?
One cannot show in a map some place which is not recognized to exist, right?

 

[waraich66]

Muhammad: Jews and the Jihad

Qibla changed by the order of Allah SWT during prayer in madina.

Jews know very well about last Prophet Muhammad PBUH,it is written in their book, it was their desire that last Prophet will be from Bani Israel but Allah know well, Muhammad PBUH was from Bani Ismail .

Bani Israel was beloved nation of Allah SWT but due to their wrong actions , Allah SWT mentioned in Quran about them "Magzobe Aliahim walazaaleen" Sura 1 Quran.

Magzobe Alihim meaning jews on them Allah send Azab (When they started worshiping of calf when Moses SA went to talk with Allah SWT at Kohi Toor ).

Walazaaleen indication towards cristians ,meaning they had done zulam(sirk) on them by declaring Esa SA Allah''s son.

That is reason muslim dont think jews are their trusth worthy friends but all cristians will be converted to muslim faith when Esa SA will again come to earth in Syria to lead muslim forces to fight with Dajal forces (evil).

 

[EjazR]

Not sure if this has been posted before but an intereting read nonetheless


Jang

Recognising Israel?

The United Nations has 189 members. The State of Israel maintains diplomatic relations with 163 of them. Around the world, Israel has 77 Resident Embassies, 21 Consulates General, 4 Special Missions and several Trade Representative Offices (Pakistan has 87 diplomatic missions covering more than 10-dozen countries). The Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC) has a total of 57 members. It was setup in Rabat, Kingdom of Morocco, on 12 Rajab 1389H (September 25, 1969) as an "expression of a great awareness, on the part of the Ummah, of the necessity to establish an Organisation embodying its aspirations and capable of carrying out its just struggle against the various dangers which threatened it and still persist. In order to defend the honour, dignity and faith of the Muslims."

By my last count, Israel had diplomatic relations with some three-dozen OIC members. Among them, the Kingdom of Morocco. Rabat, just where OIC was founded, Israel now maintains a Liaison Office by virtue of a Joint Declaration by the State of Israel and the Kingdom of Morocco signed in 1994. Other OIC members that maintain diplomatic relations with Israel include Albania, Azerbaijan, Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Comoros, Cote d'Ivoire, Egypt, Gabon, Gambia, Guyana, Jordan, Kazakistan, Mozambique, Niger, Nigeria, Qatar, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Oman, Surinam, Tajikistan, Togo, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkeminstan, Uganda and Uzbekistan (in October 2000, Oman, Tunisia and Morocco suspended relations with Israel).

In 1979, Egyptian President Anwar Sadat, on behalf of the Arab Republic of Egypt, and Prime Minister Menahem Begin, on behalf of the Government of the State of Israel, signed The Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty (President Jimmy Carter signed as a witness). Under Article III, Egypt and Israel agreed to "recognize and ... respect each other's right to live in peace within their secure and recognized boundaries." There now is an Israeli Embassy in Cairo and a Consulate General in Alexandria.

On 9 September 1993, Israel and the PLO agreed to "recognize each other after 45 years of conflict." The next day, Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin signed documents recognizing the PLO. The same day, Yasser Arafat signed a letter "recognizing Israel and renouncing violence." Israel and the PLO have since signed the Declaration of Principles, the Cairo Agreement and the Taba Agreement. Then there is the Israeli-Palestinian-American Joint Committee, formed in 1995, to settle issues related to water resources.



On 14 September 1993, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel agreed on The Israel-Jordan Common Agenda in Washington that made "the end of the state of war between the two nations." On 25 July 1994, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel signed the Washington Declaration "terminating the state of belligerency between them." Three months later, on 26 October 1994, the two signed The Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace. Under Article I, "Peace is hereby established between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan." Under Article II, "The Parties will apply between them the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations and the principles of international law governing relations among states in times of peace. In particular: they recognize and will respect each other's sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence." Amman has had a full-fledged Israeli Embassy for the past seven years.

Turkey has an Israeli Embassy in Ankara and a Consulate General in Istanbul. Within the OIC members, there also are embassies in Baku, Alma-Ata, Lagos, Tashkent, Yaounde, Dakar and Abidjan. Additionally, there is a Trade Representative Office in Doha, one in Muskat and an Interest Office in Tunis. Israel maintains an Embassy in New Delhi, a Consulate General in Bombay and an Honorary Consul in Calcutta. Israel also has an Embassy in Beijing, a Consulate General in Hong Kong and another one in Shanghai.

To be certain, the OIC has been an utter failure. It has always had a Department of Economic Affairs, a Department of Political Affairs, a Department of Coordination, Science & Technology, Dawa, Cultural & Social Affairs, Legal Affairs, Protocol and Foreign Affairs. All of these departments have so far been a complete waste of resources. Every member-state-with the exception of perhaps Pakistan-has always preferred nationhood over the illusionary Ummah. The only thing that the OIC is good at is issuing communiques. In 1971, the OIC and the Ummah watched Pakistan split into two. In 1998, OIC "regretted India's nuclear test." Recently, the OIC called on the UN to "open an investigation on the massacre of the prisoners in Afghanistan." Then there was the "Final Communique of The Tenth Extraordinary Session of The Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers on The Grave Situation in The Palestinian Territories." In the past month, Dr Abdelouahed Belkeziz, Secretary General of the OIC, declared, "he is following with deep concern the tension currently pervading Indo-Pakistani relations." Good for him!

Furthermore, OIC's claim of representing Muslims of the world is not based on facts either. India, for instance, is not a member but has 130 million Muslims. China has another 30 million Muslims. India and China put together have twice the number of Muslims than do Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Oman, Bahrain, Brunei, Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, Yemen and U.A.E. (OIC members) all combined. Whose "honour, dignity and faith" is the OIC trying to defend?

To be sure, more than half of OIC member-states have already recognized Israel. The Hashemites have also settled with Israel. There's the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty, mutual recognition of Israel and the PLO, The Israel-Jordan Common Agenda, The Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace and all the water agreements that Israel has signed with her neighbours.

Israel has at least four borders. Egypt 225 km, Jordan 238 km, Syria 76 km and Lebanon 79 km. Islamabad has always been 4,015 km away from Tel Aviv but the intensity of our belligerency towards the State of Israel has always toped that of Israel's immediate neighbours.

Has that belligerency served Pakistan well? Should we recognize Israel? Wouldn't that be the mother of all coups against some of the most potent of forces that are currently directed against Pakistan (we have always been good at making coups of other kinds)?

The ultimate goal of a good foreign policy is to plant as many friends as possible in order to promote one's national interest. Our foreign policy has so far been based on military and militants. For every one new friend-the Taliban-we ended up annoying at least four-Iran, China, Russia and the US. Should we recognize Israel? How many new, powerful friends would we end up making?

 

[Canaan]

Not sure if this has been posted before but an intereting read nonetheless


Jang

Recognising Israel?

The United Nations has 189 members. The State of Israel maintains diplomatic relations with 163 of them. Around the world, Israel has 77 Resident Embassies, 21 Consulates General, 4 Special Missions and several Trade Representative Offices (Pakistan has 87 diplomatic missions covering more than 10-dozen countries). The Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC) has a total of 57 members. It was setup in Rabat, Kingdom of Morocco, on 12 Rajab 1389H (September 25, 1969) as an "expression of a great awareness, on the part of the Ummah, of the necessity to establish an Organisation embodying its aspirations and capable of carrying out its just struggle against the various dangers which threatened it and still persist. In order to defend the honour, dignity and faith of the Muslims."

By my last count, Israel had diplomatic relations with some three-dozen OIC members. Among them, the Kingdom of Morocco. Rabat, just where OIC was founded, Israel now maintains a Liaison Office by virtue of a Joint Declaration by the State of Israel and the Kingdom of Morocco signed in 1994. Other OIC members that maintain diplomatic relations with Israel include Albania, Azerbaijan, Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Comoros, Cote d'Ivoire, Egypt, Gabon, Gambia, Guyana, Jordan, Kazakistan, Mozambique, Niger, Nigeria, Qatar, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Oman, Surinam, Tajikistan, Togo, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkeminstan, Uganda and Uzbekistan (in October 2000, Oman, Tunisia and Morocco suspended relations with Israel).

In 1979, Egyptian President Anwar Sadat, on behalf of the Arab Republic of Egypt, and Prime Minister Menahem Begin, on behalf of the Government of the State of Israel, signed The Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty (President Jimmy Carter signed as a witness). Under Article III, Egypt and Israel agreed to "recognize and ... respect each other's right to live in peace within their secure and recognized boundaries." There now is an Israeli Embassy in Cairo and a Consulate General in Alexandria.

On 9 September 1993, Israel and the PLO agreed to "recognize each other after 45 years of conflict." The next day, Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin signed documents recognizing the PLO. The same day, Yasser Arafat signed a letter "recognizing Israel and renouncing violence." Israel and the PLO have since signed the Declaration of Principles, the Cairo Agreement and the Taba Agreement. Then there is the Israeli-Palestinian-American Joint Committee, formed in 1995, to settle issues related to water resources.



On 14 September 1993, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel agreed on The Israel-Jordan Common Agenda in Washington that made "the end of the state of war between the two nations." On 25 July 1994, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel signed the Washington Declaration "terminating the state of belligerency between them." Three months later, on 26 October 1994, the two signed The Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace. Under Article I, "Peace is hereby established between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan." Under Article II, "The Parties will apply between them the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations and the principles of international law governing relations among states in times of peace. In particular: they recognize and will respect each other's sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence." Amman has had a full-fledged Israeli Embassy for the past seven years.

Turkey has an Israeli Embassy in Ankara and a Consulate General in Istanbul. Within the OIC members, there also are embassies in Baku, Alma-Ata, Lagos, Tashkent, Yaounde, Dakar and Abidjan. Additionally, there is a Trade Representative Office in Doha, one in Muskat and an Interest Office in Tunis. Israel maintains an Embassy in New Delhi, a Consulate General in Bombay and an Honorary Consul in Calcutta. Israel also has an Embassy in Beijing, a Consulate General in Hong Kong and another one in Shanghai.

To be certain, the OIC has been an utter failure. It has always had a Department of Economic Affairs, a Department of Political Affairs, a Department of Coordination, Science & Technology, Dawa, Cultural & Social Affairs, Legal Affairs, Protocol and Foreign Affairs. All of these departments have so far been a complete waste of resources. Every member-state-with the exception of perhaps Pakistan-has always preferred nationhood over the illusionary Ummah. The only thing that the OIC is good at is issuing communiques. In 1971, the OIC and the Ummah watched Pakistan split into two. In 1998, OIC "regretted India's nuclear test." Recently, the OIC called on the UN to "open an investigation on the massacre of the prisoners in Afghanistan." Then there was the "Final Communique of The Tenth Extraordinary Session of The Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers on The Grave Situation in The Palestinian Territories." In the past month, Dr Abdelouahed Belkeziz, Secretary General of the OIC, declared, "he is following with deep concern the tension currently pervading Indo-Pakistani relations." Good for him!

Furthermore, OIC's claim of representing Muslims of the world is not based on facts either. India, for instance, is not a member but has 130 million Muslims. China has another 30 million Muslims. India and China put together have twice the number of Muslims than do Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Oman, Bahrain, Brunei, Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, Yemen and U.A.E. (OIC members) all combined. Whose "honour, dignity and faith" is the OIC trying to defend?

To be sure, more than half of OIC member-states have already recognized Israel. The Hashemites have also settled with Israel. There's the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty, mutual recognition of Israel and the PLO, The Israel-Jordan Common Agenda, The Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace and all the water agreements that Israel has signed with her neighbours.

Israel has at least four borders. Egypt 225 km, Jordan 238 km, Syria 76 km and Lebanon 79 km. Islamabad has always been 4,015 km away from Tel Aviv but the intensity of our belligerency towards the State of Israel has always toped that of Israel's immediate neighbours.

Has that belligerency served Pakistan well? Should we recognize Israel? Wouldn't that be the mother of all coups against some of the most potent of forces that are currently directed against Pakistan (we have always been good at making coups of other kinds)?

The ultimate goal of a good foreign policy is to plant as many friends as possible in order to promote one's national interest. Our foreign policy has so far been based on military and militants. For every one new friend-the Taliban-we ended up annoying at least four-Iran, China, Russia and the US. Should we recognize Israel? How many new, powerful friends would we end up making?

I totally understand what you put forward here. In an Ideal world this also makes sence.
Pakistan is free to make any relations it wants. That's Pakistan's right.
But, if all these countries are hypocrites and pathetic, should Pakistan be that? If all of these countries jumped into the sea, should Pakistan do that?
Again, in the end it's up to you guys to determine who you want to make relations with and who you don't want to make relations with.

As I see it, Pakistan is one of the few muslim countries left who have not lost it yet. Pakistan for me, and I hope I'm not expecting too much here, should take the lead together with a couple of other muslim countries, in reorganizing the "muslim home", and lead us all to a new renaissance.

 

[Thomas]

Simply NO.

because Allah has not allowed the jews to build a country for themselves.
Infact Allah has ordered them to stay scattered instead of living together in one place.

they do not look to scattered to me. yes there are many Jews that live in other countries. but the same can be said before the Roman dispersion. Jews lived in most of the known Roman world then to.

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

This question is so simple and obvious. The answer to it is:

PAKISTAN SHOULD RECOGNIZE ISRAEL IF AND ONLY IF ISRAEL RECOGNIZES PALESTINE.

 

[EjazR]

This question is so simple and obvious. The answer to it is:

PAKISTAN SHOULD RECOGNIZE ISRAEL IF AND ONLY IF ISRAEL RECOGNIZES PALESTINE.

I think you didn't read the article in full, Israel has recognized PLO and the two-state solution in principle. Its another story that Israel hasn't adhered to these principles in full.

The problem is with statements like SilverFalcon made without any basis or sources

 

[adnust]

No way...

If my brother welcomes someone in pain to his home and that SOMEONE kick my brother out of his home after sometime and I support that SOMEONE then I guess its a disaster...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

it's almost hypocritical for Pakistanis to deny people of (an Ibrahamic) faith a right to homeland.

I would prefer israel to have been located in eastern europe, which is where many of them were indigenous (like Ashkenazis)

but since many are now settled in Middle East, my solution would be for a 2 state solution, with a United Jerusalem as a demarcated and de-militarized zone.

There are benefits of Pakistan recognizing israel. But we should never just do it blindly. We need to be convinced first. Withdrawal from all illegally built settlements, as well as withdrawal from Shebaa Farms (Lebanese) and Golan Heights (Syrian) would be a good start.

 

[Canaan]

I think you didn't read the article in full, Israel has recognized PLO and the two-state solution in principle. Its another story that Israel hasn't adhered to these principles in full.

The problem is with statements like SilverFalcon made without any basis or sources

"Israel" did infact recognize PLO, but only as the sole representative of the palestinian people, so far it has failed to recognize Palestine that's the major difference. On the other hand, the PLO has recognized "Israel" on 78% of historic Palestine.

 

[Canaan]

it's almost hypocritical for Pakistanis to deny people of (an Ibrahamic) faith a right to homeland.

I would prefer israel to have been located in eastern europe, which is where many of them were indigenous (like Ashkenazis)

but since many are now settled in Middle East, my solution would be for a 2 state solution, with a United Jerusalem as a demarcated and de-militarized zone.

There are benefits of Pakistan recognizing israel. But we should never just do it blindly. We need to be convinced first. Withdrawal from all illegally built settlements, as well as withdrawal from Shebaa Farms (Lebanese) and Golan Heights (Syrian) would be a good start.

so, if india in the future attacks and defeats pakistan with the help and conspiracy of the West, floods pakistan with indians, and denies the existence of Pakistanies while proclaiming that God himself gave Pakistan to Indians, we should split Pakistan into two, 78% to indians and 22% to pakistanis, with Islamabad as a demarcated and de-militarized zone?
I really don't see how you would ever accept this.

Modern jews have nothing to do in Palestine, since they don't have either historical or ethnical relations to the holy land. The only jews who in my oppinon are more than welcome to stay, are the Palestinian jews. White jews are european and should stay there.

I suggest that people read the amazing work of professor Shlomo Sand from the Hebrew university of Tel Aviv, called "Matai ve'ech humtza ha'am hayehudi?" ("When and How the Jewish People Was Invented?)

 

[Sinnerman108]

No, simply because we are working for God and our country and not for USA or any reward.

Very well put.

We will not accept Dajal

We will fight, till we can

God has a promise to help us, and he will.

 

[fhassan]

For all my Muslim brothers and sisters:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...re-al-jazeera-correspondent-4.html#post496601

Please read this post, with regards to the Quran, and then make your minds up about recognising Israel.

God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of [your] faith, and drive you forth from your homelands, or aid [others] in driving you forth: and as for those [from among you] who turn towards them in friendship; it is they, they who are truly wrongdoers! (Quran 60:9)

 

[waraich66]

Israel will never give rights to Palestinians , they think Palestine is their promised land .
Promised Land - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Aamirkhan(ssg)]

We can not accept and recognized Israel Its not better for Muslims