Should Army be given constitutional role in Politics?

[Danish saleem]

no and never!
and i know Imran khan want this! the great General Niazi, only General in Islamic History who surrendered with 90000 soldiers, was a uncle of Imran khan.
The Great General Umer, a second of General Niazi, was a father of Asad Umer

 

[Pakistani E]

Take a look at this champion of Semites and women everywhere.



And what you are doing in the quoted post is called hypocrisy. Care to the read the tone of your initial tirade against me one more time. Got a like reply, and you took it personally. PTIan through and through.

Semites and women are also human. Your insistence in providing credence to your argument by bashing women and Semites is quite pathetic actually since it shows you have no logical defence of your argument. Even though IK is not a Jew, he would lose no more respect in my eyes even if he was. Muslims like NS have done far damage to Pakistan then a Jew ever can.

As for someone liking IK cause of his looks...do I feel a hint of jealousy their, son?

 

[Chak Bamu]

no and never!
and i know Imran khan want this! the great General Niazi, only General in Islamic History who surrendered with 90000 soldiers, was a uncle of Imran khan.
The Great General Umer, a second of General Niazi, was a father of Asad Umer

Neither of your two examples are relevant. In fact this is exactly the sort of obfuscation one must avoid. The debacle of 1971 was a multi-dimensional mess. One can not pin it on merely a General or two. It was a massive National failure. Neither IK, nor Asad Umar has anything to do with it.

I wish I had my copy of "Witness to Surrender" with me. I could quote exact passages to make you retract your .... whatever it is that you wrote.

@TheFlyingPretzel , you would do well to steer clear of @Akheilos . I make it a point to never engage her in debate. It never ends well for me. You are at least TTA material, and therefore I would advise you to avoid spats, particularly ones that involve touchy females.

@Akheilos , people have a right to their opinions. I do not like your pointed references to my giving a positive rating to him. In fact I not only value his opinions, I admire his level-headedness. You provoke people and then cry about the reaction. That is not fair.

IK and his die-hard supporters are anarchical. Those who avoid this conclusion are fooling themselves. What is even worse is that they attempt to convince others by repeating tired old story lines that mean nothing at this point. Predictably, when this tactic fails, the allegation of being a Noon leaguer is applied indiscriminately as a trump. At PDF, 90% of those who do NOT support IK are not pro-PML-N, but pro-system.

 

[Dubious]

Neither of your two examples are relevant. In fact this is exactly the sort of obfuscation one must avoid. The debacle of 1971 was a multi-dimensional mess. One can not pin it on merely a General or two. It was a massive National failure. Neither IK, nor Asad Umar has anything to do with it.

I wish I had my copy of "Witness to Surrender" with me. I could quote exact passages to make you retract your .... whatever it is that you wrote.

@TheFlyingPretzel , you would do well to steer clear of @Akheilos . I make it a point to never engage her in debate. It never ends well for me. You are at least TTA material, and therefore I would advise you to avoid spats, particularly ones that involve touchy females.

Then in the same breathe I have rights to my opinions...The day you make a racist disrespecting brat a TT...you can see the quality of this forum in the ditches! And I see you too have a problem with females...I am just pointing out what you gave a positive rating for...Or is this like our Govt dont talk against the team and their decisions?

@Akheilos , people have a right to their opinions. I do not like your pointed references to my giving a positive rating to him. In fact I not only value his opinions, I admire his level-headedness. You provoke people and then cry about the reaction. That is not fair.

If he had an ounce of weight in his arguments he didnt need to behave all sexist and racist! And mind you I aint the only one who pointed it out!

Yea we saw how fast the level headedness degraded...

I didnt provoke him just showed you how empty his claims were for which you automatically gave a positive rating....While you avoid giving any to others JUST BECAUSE OF THE PARTY they support? Now tell me how is that fair?

IK and his die-hard supporters are anarchical.

And those who attack IK are just not very clean mouthed either...the thread is an example!

Those who avoid this conclusion are fooling themselves. What is even worse is that they attempt to convince others by repeating tired old story lines that mean nothing at this point. Predictably, when this tactic fails, the allegation of being a Noon leaguer is applied indiscriminately as a trump. At PDF, 90% of those who do NOT support IK are not pro-PML-N, but pro-system.

Who is trying to convince you? You want status quo live in it and enjoy it! But for god sakes stop being rude to others who want out!


@Chak Bamu show me once where I TRIED TO FORCE anything while read the post of your fav there who USED ENFORCING language...

And also show me where I tried to paint him being a man as part of the argument?

no and never!
and i know Imran khan want this! the great General Niazi, only General in Islamic History who surrendered with 90000 soldiers, was a uncle of Imran khan.
The Great General Umer, a second of General Niazi, was a father of Asad Umer

Yea I am sure even your genes has some bad blood should we judge you based on who passed you his DNA?

If PAKISTANIS a millions of them can tolerate Zardari 2x PMLN 2x and other such crazy people repeatedly, I suggest you point out their DNA too!

 

[saiyan0321]

No. Plz no as the army's job is related to defense and defending the country and its people alone. They have no use in politics. It has taken us a while to make our army non-political thanks to kiyani and raheel sharif and i would not want them getting in politics again of any sort.

Simple the govt stays away from the army's work and the army stays away from the govt.

 

[haviZsultan]

no and never!
and i know Imran khan want this! the great General Niazi, only General in Islamic History who surrendered with 90000 soldiers, was a uncle of Imran khan.
The Great General Umer, a second of General Niazi, was a father of Asad Umer

Yet Imran Khan is very against the army in politics. Read his book and you will find out he respects the Bengalis and talked to the Bengal team captain. There isn't a word of support for his uncle in the book. In fact he isn't even mentioned. Are you sure he is his uncle?

 

[Danish saleem]

Yet Imran Khan is very against the army in politics. Read his book and you will find out he respects the Bengalis and talked to the Bengal team captain. There isn't a word of support for his uncle in the book. In fact he isn't even mentioned. Are you sure he is his uncle?

yes he was his uncle,
so may please elaborate about finger of Empire?
who is empire for Imran khan!

 

[Chak Bamu]

@Akheilos , since when is this thread about whom I give ratings to and to whom I do not? Why is that an issue at all? Do you suppose that in my personal capacity as a regular PDF member, I should act like an umpire?

It is pointless to discuss politics with certain people. Even when time and trajectory of events proves them wrong, they are loath to admit it. Just compare PTI before disastrous dharna strategy and now. If you still do not see the stark difference, you may either need a few more days, or infinite more. In the end it does not matter. Its not as though defending PTI on PDF is going to change anything practically. Whatever shall be, will be - regardless of how we may want it to be.

PTI well-wishers like myself could not place it above Pakistan. I am not alone in this. There are many many others. We saw what you still refuse to see. You are deluding yourself with your dismissal of anything other than black-and-white binary choices. It just makes it easier for you to continue thinking in terms of good and evil and thus make convenient judgments. Do you, or do you not label people as N-leaguers when they disagree with you? I rest my case.

Utna hi mujhay apni Haqeeqat sai bu'ad hai....
Jitna keh Vehm-e-ghair sai hoon paich-o-tab mein.

And therefore I need not defend myself....

 

[genmirajborgza786]

IK and his die-hard supporters are anarchical. Those who avoid this conclusion are fooling themselves. What is even worse is that they attempt to convince others by repeating tired old story lines that mean nothing at this point. Predictably, when this tactic fails, the allegation of being a Noon leaguer is applied indiscriminately as a trump. At PDF, 90% of those who do NOT support IK are not pro-PML-N, but pro-system .

trust me bro, I know how that feels, I have been tagged more in a month, then probably in my whole Damn 9 years on PDF !
been called a Nooni/ N-leaguer/Ganja supporter all of it , while in really, I am a hard core leftist PPP supporter , heck my relatives in khi are known jiyalas !

 

[Dubious]

@Akheilos , since when is this thread about whom I give ratings to and to whom I do not? Why is that an issue at all? Do you suppose that in my personal capacity as a regular PDF member, I should act like an umpire?

I dont know and am no one to dictate what you should act like but it was an observation...and the particular post that you did give....wasnt worth even a second glance! Hence me asking you...and followed by Mr. level head's personal attacks and labeling attitude!

It is pointless to discuss politics with certain people. Even when time and trajectory of events proves them wrong, they are loath to admit it. Just compare PTI before disastrous dharna strategy and now. If you still do not see the stark difference, you may either need a few more days, or infinite more. In the end it does not matter. Its not as though defending PTI on PDF is going to change anything practically. Whatever shall be, will be - regardless of how we may want it to be.

Right now ALL MOST of us see is a way out of the endless cycle of being used and misused by a CERTAIN number of people....We just want out of that! And we are not waiting for an apple to hit our head from the cherry tree! nope I didnt write wrong....Seriously the system is the thing you should loathe...it IS selectively and DOESNT ALLOW a new face in!

PTI well-wishers like myself could not place it above Pakistan. I am not alone in this. There are many many others. We saw what you still refuse to see.

When PTI lost I saw a number of members LITERALLY heart broken....they gave up HOPE! and THAT is one thing we shouldnt! COZ IF we do that is like being pushed back into status quo and YOU KNOW WHAT? Any form of loss will be used as an example that you tried to break free from slavery but look how we bashed you so come back to slavery...

You are deluding yourself with your dismissal of anything other than black-and-white binary choices.

Right now all I want is justice...And I am well aware of the justice system....Dont ask how but lets say personal experience...Mind you it sucks! and is a total sold out! You can literally buy the RESULTS of ALMOST ANY CASE!

What do I want?

I want a Pakistan for which my ancestors left the comforts of their richness!

I want a Pakistan which HAS ALL THE NIKMAT on the planet and utilizes them FOR THE PEOPLE

I want a Pakistan free of slavery!

I want Pakistani people KNOWING THEIR RIGHTS and how to utilize it!

I want a GOVT WORKING FOR THE PEOPLE not their interest!

Can status quo and the silence of majority give me even 1 of these?

Can abandoning IK give me any of this or will it be worse? Coz we have seen PMLN and any other party cant change....THEY dwell in the system SO WHY would they want change? Why would they want to flush their interest?

It just makes it easier for you to continue thinking in terms of good and evil and thus make convenient judgments. Do you, or do you not label people as N-leaguers when they disagree with you? I rest my case.

I label them based on how they bow to status quo! And status quo is PMLN! I rest my case!

Utna hi mujhay apni Haqeeqat sai bu'ad hai....
Jitna keh Vehm-e-ghair sai hoon paich-o-tab mein.

And therefore I need not defend myself....

Sorry my Urdu aint that great hence didnt get what you wrote...and I wont even deny it!

trust me bro, I know how that feels, I have been tagged more in a month, then probably in my whole Damn 9 years on PDF !
been called a Nooni/ N-leaguer/Ganja supporter all of it , while in really, I am a hard core leftist PPP supporter , heck my relatives in khi are known jiyalas !

Not exactly something to be proud of now mate! Being educated abroad and living esp in Canada you should be disgusted by that!

So, who or what is a PPP jiyala and where did he or she appear from; and why can such people only be found among the PPP's supporters, in spite of the fact that in the last two decades, almost all mainstream political parties have successfully adopted the antics of the country's first ever purveyor of populist politics, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto (the founder of the PPP).

A jiyala is a PPP supporter who is bound to stick with the party or with the Bhutto family's overriding claim over the leadership of the PPP no matter what state the party is in. He or she would defend it passionately, even fight on the streets and campuses for it, and there have also been cases in which jiyalas have died for the party.

Contrary to belief, especially among the party's opponents, that jiyalas are 'blind followers of the PPP ' who unquestionably nod at everything that is dished out to them by the party, the fact is that jiyalas have also been some of the harshest critics of the party that they so intensely love.

The PPP jiyala: An existentialist history - Blogs - DAWN.COM

The only PPP member I can admire for now is this guy exposing the pathetic court and parliament system!

 

[pak-marine]

NOOOOOOO Never !! t enough of politics of these dumb generals .. stay in your barracks and manage what you are getting paid for , thats all & thank you

 

[Dubious]

Oh 1 more thing.....


I dont want govt showing off using our TAX MONEY with the banner PMLN did this!

IT IS OUR RIGHT AND THE MONEY THEY USED IS OURS so the label should be PAKISTAN did this for the people not PMLN!

 

[genmirajborgza786]

I dont know and am no one to dictate what you should act like but it was an observation...and the particular post that you did give....wasnt worth even a second glance! Hence me asking you...and followed by Mr. level head's personal attacks and labeling attitude!
Right now all MOST of us see is a way out of the endless cycle of beign used and misused by a CERTAIN number of people....We just want out of that! And we are not waiting for an apple to hit our head from the cherry tree! nope I didnt write wrong....Seriously the system is the thing you should loathe...it IS selectively and DOESNT ALLOW a new face in!

When PTI lost I saw a number of members LITERALLY heart broken....they gave up HOPE! and THAT is one thing we shouldnt! COZ IF we do that is like being pushed back into status quo and YOU KNOW WHAT? Any form of loss will be used as an example that you tried to break free from slavery but look how we bashed you so come back to slavery...
Right now all I want is justice...And I am well aware of the justice system....Dont ask how but lets say personal experience...Mind you it sucks! and is a total sold out! You can literally buy the RESULTS of ALMOST ANY CASE!

What do I want?

I want a Pakistan for which my ancestors left the comforts of their richness!

I want a Pakistan which HAS ALL THE NIKMAT on the planet and utilizes them FOR THE PEOPLE

I want a Pakistan free of slavery!

I want Pakistani people KNOWING THEIR RIGHTS and how to utilize it!

I want a GOVT WORKING FOR THE PEOPLE not their interest!

Can status quo and the silence of majority give me even 1 of these?

Can abandoning IK give me any of this or will it be worse? Coz we have seen PMLN and any other party cant change....THEY dwell in the system SO WHY would they want change? Why would they want to flush their interest?
I label them based on how they bow to status quo! And status quo is PMLN! I rest my case!
Sorry my Urdu aint that great hence didnt get what you wrote...and I wont even deny it!


Not exactly something to be proud of now mate! Being educated abroad and living esp in Canada you should be disgusted by that!

So, who or what is a PPP jiyala and where did he or she appear from; and why can such people only be found among the PPP's supporters, in spite of the fact that in the last two decades, almost all mainstream political parties have successfully adopted the antics of the country's first ever purveyor of populist politics, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto (the founder of the PPP).

A jiyala is a PPP supporter who is bound to stick with the party or with the Bhutto family's overriding claim over the leadership of the PPP no matter what state the party is in. He or she would defend it passionately, even fight on the streets and campuses for it, and there have also been cases in which jiyalas have died for the party.

Contrary to belief, especially among the party's opponents, that jiyalas are 'blind followers of the PPP ' who unquestionably nod at everything that is dished out to them by the party, the fact is that jiyalas have also been some of the harshest critics of the party that they so intensely love.

The PPP jiyala: An existentialist history - Blogs - DAWN.COM

The only PPP member I can admire for now is this guy exposing the pathetic court and parliament system!

I will Always be Proud of Pakistan Peoples Party ,Shaheed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto,Shaheed Bibi ,Shaheed Shahnawaz ,Shaheed Mumtaaz ,PPP is in my blood, please friend, said it today , don't ever say it again , this subject is extremely personal to me , my family is a well respected pro-Democracy Anti military rule Family , my grandfather in East-Pak was picked up by the mukti bahinis & was told to denounce Urdu & Bhutto , he refused, he was tortured when we found him he had multiple fractures, PPP is my identity, to give you a hint I support Asma Jahangir & am her type, so please, as you are sick of status quo , I am sick of pro-military establishment people as well

you believe & support what you want, whom you want ,be proud of it, be ashamed of it , whatever you feel, be it, Because that is your prerogatives & is your right & I respect that, same my friend I'd expect you respect mine too
to you, your way, to me mine
to you, you are right, to me, I am
to you, be your way, to me, mine
peace

 

[Dubious]

I will Always be Proud of Pakistan Peoples Party ,Shaheed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto,Shaheed Bibi ,Shaheed Shahnawaz ,Shaheed Mumtaaz ,PPP is in my blood, please friend, said it today , don't ever say it again , this subject is extremely personal to me , my family is a well respected pro-Democracy Anti military rule Family , my grandfather in East-Pak was picked up by the mukti bahinis & was told to denounce Urdu & Bhutto , he refused, he was tortured when we found him he had multiple fractures, PPP is my identity, to give you a hint I support Asma Jahangir & am her type, so please, as you are sick of status quo , I am sick of pro-military establishment people as well

you believe & support what you want, whom you want ,be proud of it, be ashamed of it , whatever you feel, be it, Because that is your prerogatives & is your right & I respect that, same my friend I'd expect you respect mine too
to you, your way, to me mine
to you, you are right, to me, I am
to you, be your way, to me, mine
peace

awesome! Respect!

 

[genmirajborgza786]

awesome! Respect!

thanks

Oh 1 more thing.....


I dont want govt showing off using our TAX MONEY with the banner PMLN did this!

IT IS OUR RIGHT AND THE MONEY THEY USED IS OURS so the label should be PAKISTAN did this for the people not PMLN!

agreed