Should Army be given constitutional role in Politics?

[Norwegian]

I will Always be Proud of Pakistan Peoples Party ,Shaheed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto,Shaheed Bibi ,Shaheed Shahnawaz ,Shaheed Mumtaaz ,PPP is in my blood, please friend, said it today , don't ever say it again , this subject is extremely personal to me , my family is a well respected pro-Democracy Anti military rule Family , my grandfather in East-Pak was picked up by the mukti bahinis & was told to denounce Urdu & Bhutto , he refused, he was tortured when we found him he had multiple fractures, PPP is my identity, to give you a hint I support Asma Jahangir & am her type, so please, as you are sick of status quo , I am sick of pro-military establishment people as well

Bhutto was a great leader, no doubt, but his later relationships with feudal lords and messing up the economy by forced nationalization contributed to his downfall. Not to forget elections in 1977 where opposition parties demanded vote-audit and Bhutto refused leading to military takeover.

 

[Pboy]

Army should stay out of politics and only serve the role they're supposed to do like in every well functioning country.

 

[Norwegian]

Army should stay out of politics and only serve the role they're supposed to do like in every well functioning country.

LOL. Too many Norwegians here

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Bhutto was a great leader, no doubt, but his later relationships with feudal lords and messing up the economy by forced nationalization contributed to his downfall. Not to forget elections in 1977 where opposition parties demanded vote-audit and Bhutto refused leading to military takeover.

the military took over because they were greedy of power, they jailed & toured many of mine relatives & the harassment the Army did to us, we can never forgive them, Shaheed Bhutto & PNA had reached an agreement , the Army had no business taking over

 

[Norwegian]

the military took over because they were greedy of power, they jailed & toured many of mine relatives & the harassment the Army did to us, we can never forgive them, Shaheed Bhutto & PNA had reached an agreement , the Army had no business taking over, if you don't like me, then you beat me, yes you, but who is a jarnail to do that ? because like me, you are also a Pakistani & parliament is yours as much, as its mine
so if you don't like me, you beat me. but who is a jarnail to do that ? one that my leader promoted, gave him a job, & he bites the very hand that feeds him , where is the honour in that ?

PPP and PNA reached an agreement after months of street violence and Bhutto only agreed when he heard rumors that martial law was on its way. If PPP had won clear majority, what was hindering Bhutto to do vote audit at once after elections?

 

[ghoul]

I'm a leftist myself, but the only respectable person in PPP is Aitzaz Ahsan. The rest of the party is pure garbage, full of feudal lords more interested in their fiefs than Pakistan. BB herself was a patriotic person, but after Zardari, anyone who supports PPP now is completely delusional. The past 5 years were probably the worst in Pakistani history, which made even Musharraf look a good guy. We Pakistanis need a new left-wing party.

As for PTI, it represents everything wrong. I want terrorism to end in Pakistan, yet IK even disrespected the soldiers who got martyred in Swat, and called them mercenaries. I want gun culture to end in Pakistan, yet he considers it his zewar. He runs his party like a shehanshah, which he proved by firing the entire PTI north Punjab for they beat up his cousin after his cousin provoked them.

 

[WishLivePak]

Neither of your two examples are relevant. In fact this is exactly the sort of obfuscation one must avoid. The debacle of 1971 was a multi-dimensional mess. One can not pin it on merely a General or two. It was a massive National failure. Neither IK, nor Asad Umar has anything to do with it.

I wish I had my copy of "Witness to Surrender" with me. I could quote exact passages to make you retract your .... whatever it is that you wrote.

@TheFlyingPretzel , you would do well to steer clear of @Akheilos . I make it a point to never engage her in debate. It never ends well for me. You are at least TTA material, and therefore I would advise you to avoid spats, particularly ones that involve touchy females.

@Akheilos , people have a right to their opinions. I do not like your pointed references to my giving a positive rating to him. In fact I not only value his opinions, I admire his level-headedness. You provoke people and then cry about the reaction. That is not fair.

IK and his die-hard supporters are anarchical. Those who avoid this conclusion are fooling themselves. What is even worse is that they attempt to convince others by repeating tired old story lines that mean nothing at this point. Predictably, when this tactic fails, the allegation of being a Noon leaguer is applied indiscriminately as a trump. At PDF, 90% of those who do NOT support IK are not pro-PML-N, but pro-system.

She's like that, forgive her.


She made a thread about why there aren't any female mods and called it discrimination. Then said she'd like to be mod.


She wants to be the princess of this forum. Ratings and mod ship she wish

Then in the same breathe I have rights to my opinions...The day you make a racist disrespecting brat a TT...you can see the quality of this forum in the ditches! And I see you too have a problem with females...I am just pointing out what you gave a positive rating for...Or is this like our Govt dont talk against the team and their decisions?



If he had an ounce of weight in his arguments he didnt need to behave all sexist and racist! And mind you I aint the only one who pointed it out!

Yea we saw how fast the level headedness degraded...

I didnt provoke him just showed you how empty his claims were for which you automatically gave a positive rating....While you avoid giving any to others JUST BECAUSE OF THE PARTY they support? Now tell me how is that fair?



And those who attack IK are just not very clean mouthed either...the thread is an example!
Who is trying to convince you? You want status quo live in it and enjoy it! But for god sakes stop being rude to others who want out!


@Chak Bamu show me once where I TRIED TO FORCE anything while read the post of your fav there who USED ENFORCING language...

And also show me where I tried to paint him being a man as part of the argument?


Yea I am sure even your genes has some bad blood should we judge you based on who passed you his DNA?

If PAKISTANIS a millions of them can tolerate Zardari 2x PMLN 2x and other such crazy people repeatedly, I suggest you point out their DNA too!

If you have problem with people getting positive ratings. You can take it to webmaster. Also it's webmaster who makes tt, not a mod.

 

[Chak Bamu]

I dont know and am no one to dictate what you should act like but it was an observation...and the particular post that you did give....wasnt worth even a second glance! Hence me asking you...and followed by Mr. level head's personal attacks and labeling attitude!
Right now all MOST of us see is a way out of the endless cycle of beign used and misused by a CERTAIN number of people....We just want out of that! And we are not waiting for an apple to hit our head from the cherry tree! nope I didnt write wrong....Seriously the system is the thing you should loathe...it IS selectively and DOESNT ALLOW a new face in!

When PTI lost I saw a number of members LITERALLY heart broken....they gave up HOPE! and THAT is one thing we shouldnt! COZ IF we do that is like being pushed back into status quo and YOU KNOW WHAT? Any form of loss will be used as an example that you tried to break free from slavery but look how we bashed you so come back to slavery...
Right now all I want is justice...And I am well aware of the justice system....Dont ask how but lets say personal experience...Mind you it sucks! and is a total sold out! You can literally buy the RESULTS of ALMOST ANY CASE!

What do I want?

I want a Pakistan for which my ancestors left the comforts of their richness!

I want a Pakistan which HAS ALL THE NIKMAT on the planet and utilizes them FOR THE PEOPLE

I want a Pakistan free of slavery!

I want Pakistani people KNOWING THEIR RIGHTS and how to utilize it!

I want a GOVT WORKING FOR THE PEOPLE not their interest!

Can status quo and the silence of majority give me even 1 of these?

Can abandoning IK give me any of this or will it be worse? Coz we have seen PMLN and any other party cant change....THEY dwell in the system SO WHY would they want change? Why would they want to flush their interest?
I label them based on how they bow to status quo! And status quo is PMLN! I rest my case!
Sorry my Urdu aint that great hence didnt get what you wrote...and I wont even deny it!

When people use words like 'Islam', 'justice', 'equality', I open a space in my mind to see if the emotional appeal that inevitably follows, is self-serving or not. In IK's case it is indeed self-serving.

You should read about how democracy was derailed in Thailand. You should also see how useful idiots were tossed aside and even put in jails once they had served their purpose. My generation is very touchy about anything that leads to martial law or any overt army intervention. We have seen these things and each time the name of justice is used to provide an excuse.

My life is very complicated just because I have to deal with legacy property cases, one of which has been going on for the last 38 years. Any fool can see that a bogus registry is being used to prolong unlawful occupation, but I've seen a High Court judge rule in favor or fraudsters using flimsy legalese that eventually Supreme Court over-turned. So, I know what it is like in our justice system. But sloganeering for PTI (despite its massive miscalculations) is not going to change any of that. Heck, PTI can do nothing about lower staff in our courts who are one of the most heartless and corrupt lot in Pakistan. I do see steady stream of small improvements from Punjab Government, but I see only slogans, rhetoric, and incitement from PTI.

If I were to bring in personal grouses into my political judgement, I should be severly anti-PML-N. But I know that I have to put aside my personal issues and look dispassionately at the situation in light of my experience, knowledge and acumen. I write only what I see, not as I want. That is the difference between me and you. I use my knowledge and experience, whereas you use your emotions. Your emotions will make you say things that have a higher chance of being proven wrong.

I called way back before Dharna idiocy that nothing will happen to NS. And look now - is it otherwise?

I did not have a problem with PTI rhetoric. Its mostly good. I have a serious problem with their strategy and how IK has been making one blunder after another. Only now are there indirect signs of a course correction and that too painfully slow. What guarantee is there that IK will not repeat such blunders again? I will pick NS over IK just because NS seems to have learned his lessons, whereas IK refuses to do so.

Lastly, about status quo.... Look at people around IK... see something? Or are your emotions blinding you yet?

 

[WishLivePak]

When people use words like 'Islam', 'justice', 'equality', I open a space in my mind to see if the emotional appeal that inevitably follows, is self-serving or not. In IK's case it is indeed self-serving.

You should read about how democracy was derailed in Thailand. You should also see how useful idiots were tossed aside and even put in jails once they had served their purpose. My generation is very touchy about anything that leads to martial law or any overt army intervention. We have seen these things and each time the name of justice is used to provide an excuse.

My life is very complicated just because I have to deal with legacy property cases, one of which has been going on for the last 38 years. Any fool can see that a bogus registry is being used to prolong unlawful occupation, but I've seen a High Court judge rule in favor or fraudsters using flimsy legalese that eventually Supreme Court over-turned. So, I know what it is like in our justice system. But sloganeering for PTI (despite its massive miscalculations) is not going to change any of that. Heck, PTI can do nothing about lower staff in our courts who are one of the most heartless and corrupt lot in Pakistan. I do see steady stream of small improvements from Punjab Government, but I see only slogans, rhetoric, and incitement from PTI.

If I were to bring in personal grouses into my political judgement, I should be severly anti-PML-N. But I know that I have to put aside my personal issues and look dispassionately at the situation in light of my experience, knowledge and acumen. I write only what I see, not as I want. That is the difference between me and you. I use my knowledge and experience, whereas you use your emotions. Your emotions will make you say things that have a higher chance of being proven wrong.

I called way back before Dharna idiocy that nothing will happen to NS. And look now - is it otherwise?

I did not have a problem with PTI rhetoric. Its mostly good. I have a serious problem with their strategy and how IK has been making one blunder after another. Only now are there indirect signs of a course correction and that too painfully slow. What guarantee is there that IK will not repeat such blunders again? I will pick NS over IK just because NS seems to have learned his lessons, whereas IK refuses to do so.

Lastly, about status quo.... Look at people around IK... see something? Or are your emotions blinding you yet?

you're asking for an essay in return from her

 

[Leader]

ItIt doesn't matters who you like ?
What system you like but if that is not working then its time to close that destructive chapter ?
Pakistan is not a western country & its been proven so many times that it can't be run with democracy of the western world?
That model has been failed in IRAQ,LIBYA &in Afghanistan?
Its time to bring the chinese style democracy with a role of pak army so they can protect the poor peoples of Pakistan from the hands of croup Ted political elites.

yar believe me if can get rid of this haramkhor nooras and buttos, these patwaris are just kuwain kay daddu, they will die their own death there and then, when not fed.

democracy is a respectable and establish means of governance in the world, we as a nation are better of with it, as we wont be isolated in the world.. nor any other country would use our army..

Raheel Sharif seems to be doing and saying all the rights things at the moment.

What strategy? - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

"As Nawaz runs around bleating about roads and miniwatts and the price of fuel, the big-boy stuff is back where it belongs: with the boys."

its also a fact that Nawaz Sharif cannot speak straight for three minutes, as his brain is filled with ideas of delicious nehari and paye etc.

so who is there to run foreign policy? when there is a gap, someone will fill it.

 

[batmannow]

yar believe me if can get rid of this haramkhor nooras and buttos, these patwaris are just kuwain kay daddu, they will die their own death there and then, when not fed.

democracy is a respectable and establish means of governance in the world, we as a nation are better of with it, as we wont be isolated in the world.. nor any other country would use our army..



its also a fact that Nawaz Sharif cannot speak straight for three minutes, as his brain is filled with ideas of delicious nehari and paye etc.

so who is there to run foreign policy? when there is a gap, someone will fill it.

Yes you are right in your thoughts, as I know every educated nobel young men's of my country wants to see that happening.
But with so much looted money in their
Hands , they will buy every dam RO anytime they want?
So now if they are not ready to give up under the demands of IMRAN KHAN the most patriotic politician of Pakistan peacefully , time is comming fast ,to take them out forever ?
& belive me this time they will see the brutality!

 

[SekrutYakhni]

the military took over because they were greedy of power, they jailed & toured many of mine relatives & the harassment the Army did to us, we can never forgive them, Shaheed Bhutto & PNA had reached an agreement , the Army had no business taking over

The military just doesn't takeover when they feel like it...Babes are waiting for Zinni's wink and the show starts...

Jernails are not just greedy. They are the best example of how a failed person (that has nothing else to do) gets rich...

That is the precise reason by son will be a motherland jernail!
Behold you, your family and many others!
My son will be the most ruthless jernail you will ever face!
I am banking on him
$$$$ comin my way in few decades!

I have already started to take commissions...17% flat rate and anything will be done.

 

[Leader]

Yes you are right in your thoughts, as I know every educated nobel young men's of my country wants to see that happening.
But with so much looted money in their
Hands , they will buy every dam RO anytime they want?
So now if they are not ready to give up under the demands of IMRAN KHAN the most patriotic politician of Pakistan peacefully , time is comming fast ,to take them out forever ?
& belive me this time they will see the brutality!

I hope the support is there for "change" and leads to betterment, but Nawaz is very powerful, he has the backing of saudi monarchs, Emirates, and every other country that he has invested in.. so to unroot him can only be through elections, and that needs to be free and fair.. once this happens, they wont stand a change, nor they did in 2013 election, but they rigged.

so all we need is a free and fair election.

 

[Sam Manekshaw]

Why u want to degrade the PA?

 

[Dubious]

When people use words like 'Islam', 'justice', 'equality', I open a space in my mind to see if the emotional appeal that inevitably follows, is self-serving or not. In IK's case it is indeed self-serving.

You should read about how democracy was derailed in Thailand. You should also see how useful idiots were tossed aside and even put in jails once they had served their purpose. My generation is very touchy about anything that leads to martial law or any overt army intervention. We have seen these things and each time the name of justice is used to provide an excuse.

My life is very complicated just because I have to deal with legacy property cases, one of which has been going on for the last 38 years. Any fool can see that a bogus registry is being used to prolong unlawful occupation, but I've seen a High Court judge rule in favor or fraudsters using flimsy legalese that eventually Supreme Court over-turned. So, I know what it is like in our justice system. But sloganeering for PTI (despite its massive miscalculations) is not going to change any of that. Heck, PTI can do nothing about lower staff in our courts who are one of the most heartless and corrupt lot in Pakistan. I do see steady stream of small improvements from Punjab Government, but I see only slogans, rhetoric, and incitement from PTI.

If I were to bring in personal grouses into my political judgement, I should be severly anti-PML-N. But I know that I have to put aside my personal issues and look dispassionately at the situation in light of my experience, knowledge and acumen. I write only what I see, not as I want. That is the difference between me and you. I use my knowledge and experience, whereas you use your emotions. Your emotions will make you say things that have a higher chance of being proven wrong.

I called way back before Dharna idiocy that nothing will happen to NS. And look now - is it otherwise?

I did not have a problem with PTI rhetoric. Its mostly good. I have a serious problem with their strategy and how IK has been making one blunder after another. Only now are there indirect signs of a course correction and that too painfully slow. What guarantee is there that IK will not repeat such blunders again? I will pick NS over IK just because NS seems to have learned his lessons, whereas IK refuses to do so.

Lastly, about status quo.... Look at people around IK... see something? Or are your emotions blinding you yet?

Why is it every Pakistani mard who is against IK just sees negativity? Do you people loath positive thoughts soo much? SO much that you even project it on a political party?

People with PTI are with it for a BETTER (positive thought) future FOR Pakistan...How many of them are elite? Most are the daily man! Oh dont point at those standing with IK coz if you do then you should point the WHOLE CIRCLE everyother party is ENVELOPED IN!

AFTER 7 yrs you see improvement THAT TO when the fear of being overrun came charging...Then why is it bad? If people CAN ONLY CHANGE FROM FEAR of loosing their seat SO BE IT! At least they will change....

Where ON EARTH have I used my emotions? O you mean feeling for Pakistan and its people...THE REALITY of how things really are (pathetic) is being emotional and wrong?

Well, let me tell you If you dont feel you dont live in the shoes you "only manage to see"...

I dont need to feel nothing yet I do...I can be a proud observer from outside...THAT IS the difference between you and me!

NS learned his lesson? How and when?
Punjab still flooded (Bravo SS)...7 yrs of lesson right there only a fool wouldnt have picked it up by now!
Last time it was motorway and now it is Metro bus - Yet justice system still looks like shit (The min you fix justice there wont be soo much chaos but I wonder if a shiny tind can comprehend that), Minority issues are worse and still not addressed, Hospitals are still (Polio is still a problem) ----Education level the biggest problem which would free many things is the same if not then worse....



Show me 1 lesson he has learned or 1 move he has improved? Which bloody department echos learned his lesson?

Instead of trying to be a smart as and dismissing people with the title of "emotional" (which isnt a bad thing just makes you human only an Asian can point that as a problem)....You brought in Islam and what not...Well, Prophet was EMOTIONAL about people he hadnt met...About praying for the future lost souls who were not even born yet! Maybe that was problematic you know crying before hand or after "knowing" something was/ is/ will or in our case has BEEN SCREWED UP CONTINUOUSLY!

YOU rather be screwed over by PMLN (after 7yrs of screwing in Punjab) then to give a new person a chance....If he screws us then at least we know we werent repeating the same thing (2 families taking turns) At least we know WE TRIED to break out of the repeated circle! THE trying is what makes a man strong not the "haath par haath rakh ker bhath na!"

She's like that, forgive her.


She made a thread about why there aren't any female mods and called it discrimination. Then said she'd like to be mod.


She wants to be the princess of this forum. Ratings and mod ship she wish



If you have problem with people getting positive ratings. You can take it to webmaster. Also it's webmaster who makes tt, not a mod.

you're asking for an essay in return from her

Yo Mr. attention seeker dont push your luck!