Should Arabic be replaced with Urdu for Mosque sermons in Pakistan ??

[Kompromat]

Hi All.

99% our society doesn't understand Arabic , they can just read and write but don't understand the language itself , which means that Masjid which has served as not only a place of worship but a place of Islamic social justice (Islamic socialism) , a school , a marriage hall , conflict solving authority , even a command and control HQ for centuries is now fading.

Put it this way , almost all of us do not understand what Imam is saying in the sermon , we just put our head down and keep listening to Arabic which makes no sense or "a practical difference".

A Masjid is supposed to be a place of problem solving not just a place of worship , imams give their sermons in arabic which creates a language barrier and the "khutba" which really is the "heart of the prayer" remains a no brainer just because of the lingual barrier.

Replacing Arabic with Urdu will just do what its meant to , which is creating understanding among the people about social issues , national issues. It will spark a discussion , followed by questions and answers resulting in widespread education and understanding on outstanding national and social issues and given the fact that half of our population is illiterate its even more important for a Masjid to clarify its message in most simplest of terms that everyone could understand those issues.

An environment where imams can clarify Social evils ie theft , Sood , Riba , drugs , murder , divorce , rape , discrimination against women , discrimination against other religions and sects , unfair trade , corruption , tax evasion etc in the common language will educate people specially those who are illiterate and eventually will result in a common understanding of these crimes followed by reduction in such occurrences.

We have seen in Egypt and Tunisia , now in Yemen how Masjid can mobilize public show of force , how it can serve as a binding force , a hospital even a shelter for a night.

Masses got out of the Masajid from Friday prayers and changed the face of their country - Its raw power and it comes from understanding mainly driven by Imams.

In Pakistan we don't enjoy that luxury , our immas walk in and start giving "khutba" in Arabic , which sometimes include our vital national issues , we shake our heads and forget about it just because we can't understand the language and the practice is widespread in hundreds and thousands of Masajid around Pakistan so the effect on our society is visible to a critical eye.

My personal opinion is that Urdu should be the official language for sermons during Jumma and other prayers and it should be upheld by the law.

Please share your opinion -- lets have a serious debate

Regards:

Aeronaut.

 

[A1Kaid]

No, sermons should be conducted in language the worshipers understand in Pakistan, in this case Urdu. Maybe they Imam can recite the Khutbah in Arabic then in Urdu for understanding purposes. Just like in a classroom teacher must address the class in the official language(s).

 

[khurasaan1]

bro. I guess we shold learn Arabic instead of getting rid of it . Cuz we need to learn it to understand Quran otherwisewe will be dumb. The secret agents of the foreign powers will translate Quran wrongly and will try to change our religion. They already tried it by writing different kinda Tafseerz of Quran for creating different sects. We needa wakeup and learn Arabic instead of getting rid of it. The satanic pplz in their country got rid of the original Bible and distributed different kinda translations making different sects or groups in them . Thats how they destroyed Christianity. They are trying to do this here too.They already spread so many cheap religious tranlations of Hadith and Quran within the market and which are translated wrong. Pplz fall into their traps cuz they buy cheap books. These cheap books spread different kinda sects . e.g Wahabis or Ghair Muqallid or Modoodiz or Salafis. or Raiwindiz , or Jabbariz , parwaiziz etc etc. You cant even trust the Quran translation unless u know Arabic. Bro. we needa be smart not as dumb fool.
Dont follow ur Imaams follow ure own intelligence cuz most of the times ure so called imaams are spies or secret agents of ure enemies...
if u dont know Quran with Arabic how u gonna find out that he is telling the right translation from Hadith or Quran...??....
The Khutba of prayerz is Sunnah of Sahabah and Aima-e-Mujtahideenz we cant get rid of their Sunnah cuz it gonna be Biddat. According to hadith " every biddat is a disaster or Gumraahi"

 

[Kompromat]

@Ahmad , your suggestion would be very time consuming.

@Khurrasaan. I don't think we can get 180 Million people to learn Arabic but we can get one Million Imams to give sermons in our language -- you tell me whats more practical.

Okay gentlemen , please vote too.

 

[A1Kaid]

bro. I guess we shold learn Arabic instead of getting rid of it . Cuz we need to learn it to understand Quran otherwisewe will be dumb. The secret agents of the foreign powers will translate Quran wrongly and will try to change our religion. They already tried it by writing different kinda Tafseerz of Quran for creating different sects. We needa wakeup and learn Arabic instead of getting rid of it. The satanic pplz in their country got rid of the original Bible and distributed different kinda translations making different sects or groups in them . Thats how they destroyed Christianity. They are trying to do this here too. You cant even trust the Quran translation unless u know Arabic. Bro. we needa be smart not as dumb fool.
Dont follow ur Imaams follow ure own intelligence cuz most of the times ure so called imaams are spies or secret agents of ure enemies...
if u dont know Quran with Arabic how u gonna find out that he is telling the right translation from Hadith or Quran...??....

That is an immensely difficult task to educate and teach approx. 170 million +/- Muslims in Pakistan the Arabic language. Also it may jeopardize our own culture to an extent, maybe I'm wrong.

As of now, I say simply use translation in language you best understand. There are reliable translations of the Quran. I understand one may not get 100% of the Qurans essences as some scholars suggest through reading a translation; but it's still better than nothing. Allah knew most Muslims wouldn't speak Arabic after revealing Islamic revelations in exclusively Arabic because Al Nabi Muhammad was Arab.

 

[Musalman]

I agree with it, infact in Ahleehadees mosque, they translate the arabic sermon in Urdu. WHats the point in the sermon if it is not understood.

 

[Kompromat]

I agree with it, infact in Ahleehadees mosque, they translate the arabic sermon in Urdu. WHats the point in the sermon if it is not understood.

In Indonesia its a wide spread practice , they give sermon both in Arabic and Indonesian.

 

[Kompromat]

^ Lets not bring CIA in this thread. No one gave rymond davis back , it was us selling our souls.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Nothing wrong in bringing Arabic and jettisoning Urdu.

But it is for the Pakistanis to decide.

Those who came from India may not like it since that is the language they spoke and got accepted when Pakistan was created.

 

[Pak_Sher]

This is not a topic to discuss since it is OK to use Arabic. What we need to control is unregisteredmadrassas and their funding.

 

[SQ8]

This is not a topic to discuss since it is OK to use Arabic. What we need to control is unregisteredmadrassas and their funding.

Why is it not ok to discuss.. ???

Lets take it from a basic point of view..
Why you should not replace it.

a part of sermon is...
أما بعد أيها الناس فإن الشيطان قد يئس من أن يعبد بأرضكم هذه أبدا

part of which roughly translated into english becomes..

O my people,Beware of Satan as he has failed in his quest to lead you astray significantly..

Now if it was translated into urdu..

It would become...

Ay meray logon.. Shaitan mardood se bacho.. ye tum ko baray gumhari mein daalne se har gaya.. tu ab..

Eventually.. when it boils down to say a moulvi in Vehari..

"Sade Log, Shaitan khabees da puttar te bach.. ey tainu jani dushman si.. .. tut gayi uss nu saazish tuwadey naal.. etc (my punjabi is improvised)..

The above.. while.. bearing similarity.. is NOT what the prophet said..not word for word.. so in a way his message is distorted..
If that is the case.. then the Quran too .. should be taught in Urdu.. and in english where needed...
and eventually... there will be editions of the Quran that will not resemble any original content.
The whole Idea of the Arabic Khutba.. and the Quran.. is to convey the original message.. as it was..and is.. to Humanity.
translations.. interpretations ... are corruptible.. but original content.. verfied and protected over 1500 years.. is not.

The alternative.. ?? give a simple translation of the Khutba.. no interpretations(although with our Mullah's.. one should not be surprised if they take they liberty to do so.. out of the greed for spiritual and/or personal glory.. and the appreciative andey ka halwa gifted by those "inspired").
With that.. you maintain the delivery of the prophets original message..
and help those understand what it means to a certain extent.

 

[Al Bhatti]

bro. I guess we shold learn Arabic instead of getting rid of it . Cuz we need to learn it to understand Quran otherwisewe will be dumb. The secret agents of the foreign powers will translate Quran wrongly and will try to change our religion. They already tried it by writing different kinda Tafseerz of Quran for creating different sects. We needa wakeup and learn Arabic instead of getting rid of it. You cant even trust the Quran translation unless u know Arabic. Bro. we needa be smart not as dumb fool.

if u dont know Quran with Arabic how u gonna find out that he is telling the right translation from Hadith or Quran...??....
The Khutba of prayerz is Sunnah of Sahabah and Aima-e-Mujtahideenz we cant get rid of their Sunnah cuz it gonna be Biddat. According to hadith " every biddat is a disaster or Gumraahi"

----

@Ahmad , your suggestion would be very time consuming.

@Khurrasaan. I don't think we can get 180 Million people to learn Arabic but we can get one Million Imams to give sermons in our language -- you tell me whats more practical.

Okay gentlemen , please vote too.

That is an immensely difficult task to educate and teach approx. 170 million +/- Muslims in Pakistan the Arabic language. Also it may jeopardize our own culture to an extent, maybe I'm wrong.

As of now, I say simply use translation in language you best understand. There are reliable translations of the Quran. I understand one may not get 100% of the Qurans essences as some scholars suggest through reading a translation; but it's still better than nothing. Allah knew most Muslims wouldn't speak Arabic after revealing Islamic revelations in exclusively Arabic because Al Nabi Muhammad was Arab.

I had posted an act in a thread which is like many other acts and laws, just words on papers with no one acting to initiate it.

Let them validate / enforce the following first which will serve and help us religiously most importantly:

ENFORCEMENT OF SHARI’AH ACT. 1991
ACT X OF 1991
An Act for the enforcement of Shari’ah

6.Teaching of, and training in, Shari’ah etc. the State shall make effective arrangements,--

(a) for the teaching of, and training in the Shari’ah, Islamic jurisprudence and all other branches of Islamic law at appropriate levels of education and professional training.

(b) to include courses on the Shari’ah in the syllabi of the law colleges ;

(c) for the teaching of the Arabic language; and

(d) to avail the services of persons duly qualified in Shari’ah, Islamic jurisprudence and Ifta in judicial system.

ENFORCEMENT OF SHARI’AH ACT. 1991


------------

In the chapter relating to the principles of policy, the constitution gives top priority to the state’s adoption of a social policy in consonance with the state religion, i.e Islam. Article 31 of the constitution, laying down the first principle of policy, provides as follows:

(1) Steps shall be taken to enable the Muslims of Pakistan, individually and collectively, to order their lives in accordance with t he fundamental principles and basic concepts of Islam and to provide facilities whereby they may be enabled to understand the meaning of life according to the Holy Qur’an and Sunnah.

(2) The state shall endeavour, as respects the Muslims of Pakistan:

(a) to make the teaching of the Holy Qur’an and Islamiyat compulsory, to encourage and facilitate the learning of Arabic language and to secure correct and exact printing and publishing of the Holy Qur’an.

Islamic Provisions in the Constitution

 

[chops3d]

Nothing wrong in bringing Arabic and jettisoning Urdu.

But it is for the Pakistanis to decide.

Those who came from India may not like it since that is the language they spoke and got accepted when Pakistan was created.

wow, i see a bad future for you here, you are gradually losing your calmness for utter bull crap

 

[muse]

So long as the only understanding a majority of people have of Islam is associated with the Arabic language, Islam can never live up to it's potential in Pakistan - Every adherent seeks to experience the Divine in his or her own terms of reference and to do this it's essential that the language, the medium of transmission, be native, the understanding it creates be native - here I mean "native" as opposed to the "alienated".

Today there is a great tragedy in Pakistan, the experience of the religion of Islam is denied to millions upon millions of people, Quran Karim, Mercy to all mankind is denied to millions because of an obscurantist ideology which seeks to keep millions in ignorance so that a minority can misrepresent and control large numbers of people.

So yes, it's important that Sermons and even Quran be in urdu -- it's understood that for those who have the time and inclination and aptitude to learn Arabic,yes, it's great to learn another language - BUT do not be confused, Quran cannot be better understood in Arabic than any other language, recall that arabic, like any human creation has undergone changes, changes in idiom, changes in the kinds of reality words create.

The word of God is the Word of God in any language, after all, does Allah really speak only Arabic, how then is Islam a universal religion?

 

[chops3d]

arabic is used for sermons right, but urdu is used for first informal sermon, and which gives the entire meaning for sermons and explains it

next question for aeronaut will be why use arabic quran and not just used the mere urdu translation, and recite urdu quran and the sermons contain the majority of auranic verses, so no q abt removing arabic