Shoud pakistan start j-2x programe low cost (5th generation) multirole aircraft to replace jf-17

[malikahmed91279]

what's your point boy?

Jf-17 is a 4th generation aircraft, and this bird replace our 3rd generation aircraft perfectly with our need at low cost, I'm talking about a lost cost 5th generation aircraft, like in price of 50 million dollar each bird, we can build 4.5 generation multi role fighter in 32 million dollar each, I'm sure we can get a beast in 50million, Turkey can also provide technical help to us, so do china as I hear about j-2x

Existing
View attachment 381980

J-18 would be nice
Twin Engine Thunder , throwing the idea out there

Same Thunder but modified to have 2 Engines

Just need minor revision on the lateral half of the Plane

The rest of the plane can remain as it , Avionics , Weapon's package etc

View attachment 382016

View the Top view , what I did was without changing too much of the plane , I just reused the rear space which presently fits 1 Engine , to place 2 Engines side by side. Same scale 2 engines in given space at rear , and you can see techncially you can position 2 Engines side by side at back

May be the airintake would need to be widen to accomodate more flow of oxygen/air into engines

Certainly the core body can be modified to house 2 Engines with some minor revision of structural design of core body

I also was interested to start a discussion about twin engine jf-17 or a batter single jf-17 for MMRCA, Pakistan should start a new project based on jf-17 research, with better aviation, like better radar, more payload, and longer range, coz we need a fighter who will play with gripen or f-16 blk 70,if it's difficult for us to get a better engine (120 minimum) then we can easily go for a twin engine (60-65 each) jf-17 aircraft, with a different name like (Jinnah or jibril) my fav, its a better option then j-10 or j-16,because if we don't go with jf-17 research, then there's no benefit of tot

 

[!eon]

so you want to install two engines on same dimentions ? What is use of twin engine then ?

Converting the JF-17 into JF-18 (Twin Engine Bird) should not be that hard for continuation or evolution of our existing platform

Most Engineering Houses do continue to Evolve a platform to Next Evolution and valuable knowledge does gets attained in moving from one Successful Iteration to next. Just look at Russian planes always built on top of older model and designs

The Stealth plane is a different situation as we plan to purchase some birds in due time, Its is very simple to see what structural component will have to get modified

Just using a model to explain the idea, yes means we need to change the core central structure from 1 hollow column to 2 but rest of plane is all same

View attachment 382021

The cylindrical smooth surface hardly adds any drag on the Thunder JF-18

Certainly folks can argue , how difficult it would be but it does not seems that much of a drastic change, a flying prototype should not take more then 1.5 Years to 2.0 years

We are just introducing only 3 identified parts as seen in image above in yellow , pure structural elements not mechanical moving parts and most of the time these 3 parts all come "attached" already preconnected in one big part

• From electrical prespective we are just introducing starting capabilities and shutting capabilities of second engine

• I do see some need to enable support for collecting 2nd engine data for internal computers to display data to pilot(i.e it is running with out issues)

150 JF-17 would be restricted to Block 1, Block 2, Block 3
50-75 JF-18 would have Block 1 (Initially) [Newer Radar , More Air to Air Missiles]

Certainly doable with knowledge Pakistani Engineers have presently

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Pakistan cannot afford fgfa for next 10 years due to budget constraint and poor economic growth ...

Why are you worried about our budget issues.Economy of Country is getting better.
If we can afford to be a nuclear power with powerful missiles, submarines, then we can maintain reasonable number of 5th generation fighter too.
By the time India will get 5th generation, PAF will get it as well.

 

[Ajit6333]

Why are you worried about our budget issues.Economy of Country is getting better.
If we can afford to be a nuclear power with powerful missiles, submarines, then we can maintain reasonable number of 5th generation fighter too.
By the time India will get 5th generation, PAF will get it as well.

No pak economy is not getting better its getting worst I was watching a progam on dunya news the anchor and analyst Rauf klasra said how everything is running through loans..airport roads buildings are mortgaged to get loans from IMF...so pls cut your defence budget further India is not your enemy ....

Who says Pakistan is going for FGFA?? Pakistan is looking into realistic available options that are J-31 & TFX and both will not be work horse of PAF, which ever is selected it will be front line bird and will be made as per PAF's requirements, economy is no issue specially when it comes to J-31 project.

Pakistan economy is a serious concern to pay loans you are taking more loans ...cpec will increase the debt further ...Decrease your nuclear missile numbers and reduce defence budget..

 

[XDescendantX]

JFT isn't even fully inducted and here people are discussing to replace it.

Faceplam

Discussions bring enlightenment. It's never a bad thing to think a step or even a few steps ahead bro.

The U.S. built war toys and assumed no country would be able to match their weapons for decades to come. So they shifted their military spending from research to maintaining their huge inventory and bases. And now some countries have caught up with the U.S. in some of the fields in which the U.S. had an overwhelming advantage.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

No pak economy is not getting better its getting worst I was watching a progam on dunya news the anchor and analyst Rauf klasra said how everything is running through loans..airport roads buildings are mortgaged to get loans from IMF...so pls cut your defence budget further India is not your enemy ....


Pakistan economy is a serious concern to pay loans you are taking more loans ...cpec will increase the debt further ...Decrease your nuclear missile numbers and reduce defence budget..

Oh, how much concerned you are about our country.........Ummah

But alas! your leadership openly talks about Cold start, Division of Country, Surgical Strikes and much more.
Let them tell as well taht Pakistan is their friend if they wish too.

 

[Rocky rock]

Jf-17 is a 4th generation aircraft, and this bird replace our 3rd generation aircraft perfectly with our need at low cost, I'm talking about a lost cost 5th generation aircraft, like in price of 50 million dollar each bird, we can build 4.5 generation multi role fighter in 32 million dollar each, I'm sure we can get a beast in 50million, Turkey can also provide technical help to us, so do china as I hear about j-2x

Well for now there are rumours about Pakistan interest in J-31 5th Gen Aircraft. and Turkey was willing Pakistan to Participate in TF-X Program. Nothing is confirm until now. but Pakistan is considering for 5th Gen aircraft. The Program would surely be Joint venture or could be Under license if J-31 will get select. So these 2 or the options for now.
But who knows maybe Pakistan brings her own project as JF-17.

So just wait n watch.

 

[WarFariX]

i do get amused at most PDFians lets do this , modify it likethis and wooohooo its flying..lol...every inch has angle calcu;lated my boyss....making a jet fighter in 12-15 years is the reason of such extensive work with angles and aerodynamics and structure of airframe....meanwhile PAF knows what it wants and e=when it wants......you guys take ur time off and do something else . believe me PAF personnel whom i talk to often say PDFians r too funny even kamra guys laugh hardly

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Converting from JF-17 to JF-18 , does not means drastic changes as side of plane is length / width is generally same.

Only the airflows would be effected , and the weight of plane will change due to secondary Engine (weight), I think such matter can be tested in Air Tunnel

The body is not drastically different

Even USA went from
F14
-----> F15
------------>F18
------------------->F22

JF-17 if it continues from its present form to JF-18 is a good deal for Local Knowledge development


Only moving parts of Fighter Jet are difficult , the fixed solid structure are not that hard


We can see in Hornets , the intakes have dedicated role for supply of oxygen to engines and quite possible to arrange two Engine Units easily

In Thunders the intakes supply Air supply to 1 engine

Don't see why it is not doable

A functional example of F-18 Hornet exists you can see the design works as seen from the below image

 

[Deino]

Honestly and i hope You don't take this as an offence, but this is IMO a stupid idea; I don't understand Your concept - since aircraft design and manufacturing is not a model-like plug & play-issue - and what would You gain?

Anyway, even if technically surely doable, it would be a waste of money, time and resources especailyl if the type in the end would only be of the same generation of the JF-17 ... and that only in yeras !
As such that could maybe have done years ago ... but not yet; and who should pay for it?

Even more; why developing a fourth generation type based around 2x RD-93/WS-13 if the aircraft would get is exactly what the FC-31 will be, and a generation ahead ?

So IMO Your concept is nothing more than some sort of modeller's what-if dream.

What the PAf needs however is a modern type.

Just my 2 Cents.
Deino

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

No certainly no offence taken ,

I think it is important to develop the next , iteration for JF17 thunder because that is how generally local Aviation sector improves. Develop a model and then develop its next cycle

Since it is our first plane , it makes sense to develop one more iteration for our local Manufacturing knowledge development.

Other gains,
1- Two Engines , ensure greater capability to lift off with more Weapon load
2- Better survivability ratio in air if one engine become faulty during flight
3- More power at disposal

It won't waste money becasue , we will be developing the next Iteration / Version with only 15% cost of origional investment in Thunder program.

Knowledge attained in enhancing structural design is priceless

The modular design in Origional Thunder which will get inherited by JF-18 would be upgradable to newer radar , and Twin Engines will ensure it can fly with bigger radar if needed and more variety of weapon packages


I imagine the reworked Engine placement for JF-18 would look similar to Hornet

Presently in JF17 Thunder the sections 1 , 2 , 3 are are 1 single piece
where in Hornet you have clear visual of breakdown of how Pilot's section is seperated from two columns for Engines

 

[Readerdefence]

Jf 18 if there is any might be somewhat like f15 SE

 

[malikahmed91279]

It's a good idea,that could be MMRCA,but we have to talk about light weight single engine multi role aircraft, something like j2x

 

[BHarwana]

Lol making a new 5th gen fighter is easier than making a JF 17. JF 17 was a difficult job to produce a such a magnificent fighter cheaply.

 

[WarFariX]

No certainly no offence taken ,


3- More power at disposal

Could you explain this sentence plz..i need to learn