Sheikh Mujeeb-ur-Rehman famous speech against the neutrals: Joy Bangla! Joy Pakistan!

[KaiserX]

Compare how mujib respect the quaid and his sister Fatima Jinnah firmly standing with her in the 60s vs how the neutrals treated the sister of our founder.

These neautrals are even worse than traitors. Hang atleast 50 generals and you will make sure it never happens in hundred years again!

 

[Dalit]

Compare how mujib respect the quaid and his sister Fatima Jinnah firmly standing with her in the 60s vs how the neutrals treated the sister of our founder.

These neautrals are even worse than traitors. Hang atleast 50 generals and you will make sure it never happens in hundred years again!

Well, at least we agree on that.

 

[Bossman]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1543585724829577217

This famous speech of Sheikh Mujeeb-ur-Rehman is an eye opener. It exposes the lies of neutrals aka property dealers who still claim that the guy who won 1970's elections under military regime fair and square was actually a traitor!
View attachment 858913
@UKBengali @Bilal9 @Black_cats @Homo Sapiens @bluesky @SMX 3.0 @Wood @maithil @Joe Shearer @Skull and Bones @Blueindian @INDIAPOSITIVE @Sudarshan @koolio @Verve @Dual Wielder @Zibago @AZ1 @ziaulislam @ghazi52 @Ghazwa-e-Hind @Jazzbot @Indus Pakistan @SIPRA @Ssan @Patriot forever @RescueRanger

#ucking stupid post.

 

[Joe Shearer]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1543585724829577217

This famous speech of Sheikh Mujeeb-ur-Rehman is an eye opener. It exposes the lies of neutrals aka property dealers who still claim that the guy who won 1970's elections under military regime fair and square was actually a traitor!
View attachment 858913
@UKBengali @Bilal9 @Black_cats @Homo Sapiens @bluesky @SMX 3.0 @Wood @maithil @Joe Shearer @Skull and Bones @Blueindian @INDIAPOSITIVE @Sudarshan @koolio @Verve @Dual Wielder @Zibago @AZ1 @ziaulislam @ghazi52 @Ghazwa-e-Hind @Jazzbot @Indus Pakistan @SIPRA @Ssan @Patriot forever @RescueRanger

If you know Bengali, and have heard it (I heard it a few days after it was delivered, as a tape recording), you cannot remain unmoved.

As an Indian, I listened, stirred and horrified at what was being done to a loyal people, in cold blood.

Compare how mujib respect the quaid and his sister Fatima Jinnah firmly standing with her in the 60s

This firmly refutes the really uninformed, really nasty accounts of Mujib's position on nationalism before Bangladesh became inevitable. It was emphatically not rendered inevitable by Mujib's actions; it was carved out of the flesh of a nation by that nation itself. It owed nothing, also, to Indian manipulation. India came into the picture long after March, long after Searchlight, long after Tikka Khan left bloodstains all over the province.

 

[PakFactor]

Bengalis saved themselves from the pain Pakistan is going through and they’ve progressed a lot better.

 

[blain2]

Once again, to set the record straight in the face of this utterly nonsensical rhetoric of "neutrals this and that":

It was not the military that insisted MuR be kept out of power. One has to read to understand what transpired there. It was the Punjab-Sind political elite in West Pakistan that blocked the formation of MuR's government.

Gen Yahya was looking for a way out to hand over control as he was put in that situation after Ayub Khan was forced to depart. Yahya became the CMLA after Ayub not because the former wanted it, rather because he was the next man up after Ayub Khan. The attempts to conduct elections were disrupted by the massive typhoon in East Pakistan so all of these things were playing out in the backdrop. However, there were countless discussions with MuR, Bhutto and other Pakistani politicians facilitated by Gen Yahya Khan but unfortunately all for nought BECAUSE the political elite in West Pakistan was not willing to let MuR and AL form a national government post elections which MuR won fair and square.

So the first rule of the book is to OWN up to our collective failures in letting the East Pakistanis down instead of selectively tarnishing only the military.

There is this recent revisionist urge here and it is clear why that is being voiced. Its simply because a certain political party and its base is on the losing end for now. Keep in mind that PPP, PML-N all have had to vacate the chair and go into opposition in the past and IK and PTI were just fine with them not being able to finish their term. Now the shoe is on the other foot unfortunately and my purpose here is not to rub salt, rather to make people realize that irrational venting at the military under the stupid garb of "neutrals" is counter-productive for our entire country.

Let me also say for the sake of introspection, had the PTI not relied on the ISI crutch in the first place, they would not have been dependents. There were missteps by the PTI government on all fronts. But like other governments in the past, they too need to learn from them and hopefully will be better equipped next go around compared to PML/PPP.

 

[Joe Shearer]

As a Pakistani, I regret how we borked our relations with Bangladesh and Afghanistan.

As an Indian, I am left feeling frustrated that we are always dragged in as a whipping boy.

It was not the military that insisted MuR be kept out of power. One has to read to understand what transpired there. It was the Punjab-Sind political elite in West Pakistan that blocked the formation of MuR's government.

Gen Yahya was looking for a way out to hand over control as he was put in that situation after Ayub Khan was forced to depart. Yahya became the CMLA after Ayub not because the former wanted it, rather because he was the next man up after Ayub Khan. The attempts to conduct elections were disrupted by the massive typhoon in East Pakistan so all of these things were playing out in the backdrop. However, there were countless discussions with MuR, Bhutto and other Pakistani politicians facilitated by Gen Yahya Khan but unfortunately all for nought BECAUSE the political elite in West Pakistan was not willing to let MuR and AL form a national government.

So the first rule of the book is to OWN up to our collective failures in letting the East Pakistanis down instead of selectively tarnishing only the military.

This is the heart of the matter. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Of course it's always the fault of Pakistanis full of hate so incomprehensible that your years of interaction with them hasn't made anything clear to you.

You don't read, do you? It was clearly mentioned in an outstanding post by an eminent Pakistani member of the administration of this forum that it was due to the machinations of a political group within Pakistan.

Before doing an imitation of a soda water bottle shaken up and thrown, do please read a little. Including the posts by sensible Pakistanis. If you do, one day, you may be numbered among them.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Once again, to set the record straight in the face of this utterly nonsensical rhetoric of "neutrals this and that":

It was not the military that insisted MuR be kept out of power. One has to read to understand what transpired there. It was the Punjab-Sind political elite in West Pakistan that blocked the formation of MuR's government.

Gen Yahya was looking for a way out to hand over control as he was put in that situation after Ayub Khan was forced to depart. Yahya became the CMLA after Ayub not because the former wanted it, rather because he was the next man up after Ayub Khan. The attempts to conduct elections were disrupted by the massive typhoon in East Pakistan so all of these things were playing out in the backdrop. However, there were countless discussions with MuR, Bhutto and other Pakistani politicians facilitated by Gen Yahya Khan but unfortunately all for nought BECAUSE the political elite in West Pakistan was not willing to let MuR and AL form a national government post elections which MuR won fair and square.

So the first rule of the book is to OWN up to our collective failures in letting the East Pakistanis down instead of selectively tarnishing only the military.

There is this recent revisionist urge here and it is clear why that is being voiced. Its simply because a certain political party and its base is on the losing end for now. Keep in mind that PPP, PML-N all have had to vacate the chair and go into opposition in the past and IK and PTI were just fine with them not being able to finish their term. Now the shoe is on the other foot unfortunately and my purpose here is not to rub salt, rather to make people realize that irrational venting at the military under the stupid garb of "neutrals" is counter-productive for our entire country.

Let me also say for the sake of introspection, had the PTI not relied on the ISI crutch in the first place, they would not have been dependents. There were missteps by the PTI government on all fronts. But like other governments in the past, they too need to learn from them and hopefully will be better equipped next go around compared to PML/PPP.

Yes, you are right. Military alone was not responsible for the 1971 debacle. It was a collective failure

But the question is that why does the Army, the country's dominant power center, always support the "wrong" side?

They always support unpopular leaders against the popular ones

Mujib was more popular than Bhutto, Army supported Bhutto
Bhutto became the most popular leader of (west)Pakistan, Army killed him
Benazir was more popular than Nawaz Sharif, Army supported (rather created) Nawaz in 1980s
Nawaz won 2/3rd majority in 1997, Army imposed martial law and exiled him
Nawaz was more popular than Imran Khan, Army supported Imran in 2018
Imran is the most popular leader in Pak ryt now, Army is supporting PDM against him

The Army always goes against the will of the majority to retain their role as country's dominant power center

The Army is not willing to concede the political power to the people of Pakistan

We have already lost half of the country because of this, and we may lose what we are left with

 

[Joe Shearer]

If the criteria of sane is someone you agree with then no thanks.

It is easy to see that the vast bulk of opinion is with you. Congratulations!

And I was reacting to the condescending way you agreed with a post blaming Pakistan.

Who else would be responsible for a civil war?

That's your thing, that's why you are here.

Perhaps. Who am I to disagree with the vast bulk of opinion?

Oh poor you feeling frustrated at how Pakistanis use our dear India as a whipping boy.

VERY frustrated! Even more frustrated at the descent into hysteria of some members. Pity, that.

 

[Joe Shearer]

If you think your schtick of "Look at these Pakistanis being insensible and hysteric" is funny or sounds smart, it isn't. It's cringey. Get off your high horse.

I like what I am saying, and how I say it. People seem to like it, too. So, if you don't mind awfully, I'll wait until someone with greater credibility joins you in your personal attacks.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

t exposes the lies of neutrals aka property dealers who still claim that the guy who won 1970's elections under military regime fair and square was actually a traitor!

Mujib was an actual traitor; he began talks with India for an independent Bangladesh during the 1960's, the conspiracy was detected by the intelligence, but they were ridiculed when the conspiracy was brought to light. The case and evidence files were burned (likely strategically) during riots targeting government buildings and the case was eventually withdrawn after intense pressure. In 2010, the conspirators admitted in Bangladeshi parliament to the historicity of the conspiracy.

Agartala Conspiracy Case - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

However, that wasn't even the main reason why the military would not allow Mujib to become the Head of State, the main issue was his 6 point plan which would have relegated the federal government to defense and foreign affairs only, a dangerous level of decentralization which would have opened the path for Pakistan's disintegration, the plan also called for separate currencies, foreign exchanges and militaries.

Pakistan and Bangladesh should not have never been under one state and separation was inevitable given the differences.

 

[fallstuff]

Yes, you are right. Military alone was not responsible for the 1971 debacle. It was a collective failure

But the question is that why does the Army, the country's dominant power center, always supports the "wrong" side?

They always support unpopular leaders against the popular ones

Mujib was more popular than Bhutto, Army supported Bhutto
Bhutto became the most popular leader of (west)Pakistan, Army killed him
Benazir was more popular than Nawaz Sharif, Army supported (rather created) Nawaz in 1980s
Nawaz won 2/3rd majority in 1997, Army imposed martial law and exiled him
Nawaz was more popular than Imran Khan, Army supported Imran in 2018
Imran is the most popular leader in Pak ryt now, Army is supporting PDM against him

The Army always goes against the will of the majority to retain their role as country's dominant power center

The Army is not willing to concede the political power to the people of Pakistan

We have already lost half of the country because of this, and we may lose what we are left with

Interesting take of events.

 

[KaiserX]

If you know Bengali, and have heard it (I heard it a few days after it was delivered, as a tape recording), you cannot remain unmoved.

As an Indian, I listened, stirred and horrified at what was being done to a loyal people, in cold blood.


This firmly refutes the really uninformed, really nasty accounts of Mujib's position on nationalism before Bangladesh became inevitable. It was emphatically not rendered inevitable by Mujib's actions; it was carved out of the flesh of a nation by that nation itself. It owed nothing, also, to Indian manipulation. India came into the picture long after March, long after Searchlight, long after Tikka Khan left bloodstains all over the province.

Good you are open to accepting that.. now also accept what your people did against muslims in India, pre 1947 until even today whats going on in kashmir, how your kind butchered those who tried to live peacefully amongst you.

Mujib was an actual traitor; he began talks with India for an independent Bangladesh during the 1960's, the conspiracy was detected by the intelligence, but they were ridiculed when the conspiracy was brought to light. The case and evidence files were burned (likely strategically) during riots targeting government buildings and the case was eventually withdrawn after intense pressure. In 2010, the conspirators admitted in Bangladeshi parliament to the historicity of the conspiracy.

Agartala Conspiracy Case - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

However, that wasn't even the main reason why the military would not allow Mujib to become the Head of State, the main issue was his 6 point plan which would have relegated the federal government to defense and foreign affairs only, a dangerous level of decentralization which would have opened the path for Pakistan's disintegration, the plan also called for separate currencies, foreign exchanges and militaries.

Pakistan and Bangladesh should not have never been under one state and separation was inevitable given the differences.

Agree, Bengal was never a part of Iqbals PAKISTAN. Pakistan was always invisioned from inception to include the 5 North-western muslim majority provinces ie Punjab, Balochistan, Sindh, NWP, and Kashmir. Even though Bengal was included later Mujibs 6 point plan would have been a reasonable accomadation considering the considerable distance, it would have been best for the 2 seperate regions of Pakistan be governed by regional level admins.

Most of the 6 point demands were fairly easy-

1. The Constitution should provide for a Federation of Pakistan in its true sense based on the Lahore Resolution, and the parliamentary form of government with supremacy of a Legislature directly elected on the basis of universal adult franchise.
2. The federal government should deal with only two subjects: Defence and Foreign Affairs, and all other residual subjects should be vested in the federating states.
3. Two separate, but freely convertible currencies for the two wings should be introduced; or if this is not feasible, there should be one currency for the whole country, but effective constitutional provisions should be introduced to stop the flight of capital from East to West Pakistan. Furthermore, a separate Banking Reserve should be established and separate fiscal and monetary policy be adopted for East Pakistan.
4. The power of taxation and revenue collection should be vested in the federating units and the federal centre would have no such power. The federation would be entitled to a share in the state taxes to meet its expenditures.
5. There should be two separate accounts for the foreign exchange earnings of the two wings; the foreign exchange requirements of the federal government should be met by the two wings equally or in a ratio to be fixed; indigenous products should move free of duty between the two wings, and the constitution should empower the units to establish trade links with foreign countries.
6. East Pakistan should have a separate military or paramilitary force, and Navy headquarters should be in East Pakistan.

Notice the language was always fairly compromising and in the end it would have only made sense to have a unified currency, foreign policy, and defence policy (military) ran by a single President. It would have been pretty easy to convince Mujib on the unified currency aspect as long as capital flight didnt occur. For that taxes would be handled at the provincal level other than for defence spending.

Everything else could have been left to 2 separate Prime ministers in East/West Pakistan with power directly devolved to the local level from there. In effect you would have gotten rid of provinces completed from todays west pakistan and dissolved powers directly to local governments that are far more effective in delivering development to begin with. The idea of having 4-5 separate provinces in the west while 1 single province (with majority of populace) in the east was such an idiotic governance structure to begin with.

 

[Bengal71]

IMO, if Mujib had led the country while (1) instituting land/asset taxes and (2) building an Asian Tiger-type industrial economy, then I think Pakistan would've evolved into a powerful confederacy akin to the USA. Yes, we have our ethnic and cultural differences, but when institutional maturity takes root, 'ideational' bonds (like business, wealth creation, spreading values, etc) emerge. As a Pakistani, I regret how we borked our relations with Bangladesh and Afghanistan.

If Mujib was allowed to rule and not deposed and he managed to end the jamindari system and managed to confine the military to it's constitutional role of defending the country only, Pakistan could have remained united to this day. Only democracy and rule of law was all that was required for Pakistan to remain united and thrive.