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Sheikh Abdul Aziz Killed - Violence Flares in Kashmir

|People of Kashmir??? Pakistan and China didn't bother to maintain the demographics of their resp territories.. they could be Mr. Punjabi and Mr. Han not Mr. Kashmiri...

and yeah ask Pakistan and China to transfer their Kashmirs to India... since that is impossible, to hell with what Kashmiris think.. ATM J&K is for all practical purposed Indian Territory and if the 1bn+ Indians feel it should be a part of India it bloody well will be a part of India..

This is surely the kind of attitude that has brought situation to this end uptill now. I think you just spoke on behalf of your Govt and how indians think. But what seems is that this time Kashmiries have thought if the 1bn+ Indians feel it should be a part of India, it bloody well will not be a part of india. Sorry pal, but you can't win everything with hollow claims unless you address the core issues involved.
 
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The reason this article is in your constitution is because the territory is considered disputed otherwise don't you think it would have been removed along ago. India took Kashmir to UN itself and it was marked as a disputed territory and then again in Shimla agreement it was again refered to as a disputed territory which needs a solution, don't you think its about time that India instead of trying to hide behind excuses and trying to show something as her own which in reality isn't,
Mate i'l be blunt. As long as India has the biggest gun in the region, Kashmir is going nowhere. International status of Kashmir be damned, you might think of it as a big deal, but its not. We'v seen the rules change to accomodate India and many other such countries. If you can pull your weight in the international arena, rules change to accomodate you.

You dont hear any other country apart from Pakistan refer to that status. The world recognizing the ground situation realizes that Kashmir is an Indian state. Only Pakistan seems to think that the international legal status matters. Dont you wonder why its only Pakistan and OIC countries who harp on the Kashmir issue and no other country?

focus her energies on solving this issue specially when there has been a major shift and there is, you cant deny it as your leaders have openly accepted this fact, in Pakistan's Kashmir policy.
Im lost here mate. What is the change in Pakistan's Kashmir policy?

But as long as India refuses to accept this reality, the issue will stay there and so is the blame game of sponsoring terrorism into each others state. No peace at all. You and I both have been witnesses, all that CBM, and we are back to square one.
No mate. I personally think that its high time that India stopped working with Pakistan on the Kashmir issue. Its time to look inwards. Take the drastic steps necessary. The one thing i agree with that the govt has done is spend good money on the border during these last years, from electrified layered fences to sensors bought from Israel. Its time to get our own act together. Enough of the pleasing.
 
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Pakistan has always had multi-faceted policies, to use a more decent term, so I really see no reason why one should take the words of its leaders at face value.

I for one am beginning to lose faith in the peaceful settlement of this issue. It will take some enlightened leadership to bring it back on track, but I don't see that coming from either India or Pakistan. India, there is still hope with Manmohan Singh, but Pakistan seems to be incapable of pursuing a coherent foreign policy.

With the current attitude i lost the faith along ago while Salim use to argue over it. As we currently seeing, coming days more and more hard line approach will be adopted from both sides resulting back to square one.

As for Pakistan incapability is concerned, you are forgetting something, that this change in policy is not because we cant keep one but because Pakistan genuinely wanted a peaceful solution to this issue, and your leaders appreciated it all along, but now with the current attitude, Pakistan will also be forced to review its policy of sidelining Kashmir according to Mr.10% and will have to adopt rather a tough stance. You can already see it. We have decided to raise the issue of this recent murdering with the international community. Before that one would have not imagined that the current regime would go this far. At least i did not to honest.
 
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As for Pakistan incapability is concerned, you are forgetting something, that this change in policy is not because we cant keep one but because Pakistan genuinely wanted a peaceful solution to this issue, and your leaders appreciated it all along, but now with the current attitude, Pakistan will also be forced to review its policy of sidelining Kashmir according to Mr.10% and will have to adopt rather a tough stance. You can already see it. We have decided to raise the issue of this recent murdering with the international community. Before that one would have not imagined that the current regime would go this far. At least i did not to honest.

What exactly is Pakistan's foreign policy? Musharraf is saying something, Zardari something else, Gilani is singing his own tune and ISI is following its own agenda.

Narayanan made it clear a few days back when he said quite bluntly that he did not know who to talk to in Pakistan.
 
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Pakistan too unilaterally declared that Northern Areas is not disputed area as its not a part of Kashmir. and gifted a part of Kashmir to the Chinese..

Jammu and Ladakh have to be disassociated from Kashmir Valley, either make them a seperate state or merge them with Punjab and HP resp...

Kashmir Valley so left would be too small a area to be called a state make it UT.. and scrap Article 370... citing the day Pakistan and China reverse the demographic change in their respective Kashmir then so would India..

I agree with you to the end mate. This is EXACTLY what should be done. Heck if nothing else, make Jammu a state of its own with Ladakh in it. Kashmir would become a very small area. Make Kashmir a Union Territory. Then we'l start to see some real changes in Kashmir.
 
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I agree with you to the end mate. This is EXACTLY what should be done. Heck if nothing else, make Jammu a state of its own with Ladakh in it. Kashmir would become a very small area. Make Kashmir a Union Territory. Then we'l start to see some real changes in Kashmir.

Ladakh and Jammu have been completely ignored while all the attention is focused on keeping the valley happy. Its a miracle that they haven't tried harder to make their voices heard till now.

I'll agree with that as well...frankly the people of Ladakh and Jammu deserve better than to be left behind because of the the valley.
 
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|People of Kashmir??? Pakistan and China didn't bother to maintain the demographics of their resp territories.. they could be Mr. Punjabi and Mr. Han not Mr. Kashmiri...

and yeah ask Pakistan and China to transfer their Kashmirs to India... since that is impossible, to hell with what Kashmiris think.. ATM J&K is for all practical purposed Indian Territory and if the 1bn+ Indians feel it should be a part of India it bloody well will be a part of India..

No wonder because of attitude like yours today India is have many secessionist movements.

Some of them that might your media never tells you about, but exist,are as follows.

Andhra Pradesh
Political party: Jai Andhra

Arunachal Pradesh
Rebel organization: Arunachal Dragon Force
Proposed autonomous region: Teola country

Assam
Rebel organization: United Liberation Front of Assam, Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam

Bodoland
Political parties: National Democratic Front of Bodoland

Dimasaland
Political party: Dima Halim Daogah

Garo
Rebel organizations: People's Liberation Front of Meghalaya/Achik National Volunteer Council
Proposed autonomous region: Achikland

Gondwana
Political party: Gondwana Ganatantra Party, seeking to create a Gondi state from parts of Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, and Maharashtra

Kamtapur
Political party: Kamtapur Peoples Party (political wing of KLO)
Rebel organizations: Kamtapur Liberation Organisation, Koch-Rajbongshi Liberation Organisation

Karbi
Rebel organization: Karbi National Volunteers, United People’s Democratic Solidarity
Proposed autonomous region: Karbi-Anglong

Karnataka
Proposed State:Tulu Nad,seeking to create a Tulu state from parts of Karnataka

Kashmir
Rebel organizations:Lashkar-e-Toiba, Harkat-ul-mujahideen
Proposed state: Unification with Pakistan
Political organizations:All Parties Hurriyat Conference, Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front
Proposed state: Independent State of Kashmir

Nagaland
Rebel organization: National Socialist Council of Nagaland
Government-in-exile: Government of the People’s Republic of Nagaland
Proposed state: Nagalim, or Peoples Republic of Nagaland

Manipur
Rebel organizations: Hmar People's Convention–Democrat, Manipur People’s Liberation Front, United National Liberation Front, Revolutionary People's Front of Manipur, People's Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak

Mizoram
Rebel organizations: Zomi Revolutionary Organization

Mizoram Farmers Liberation Force
Proposed state: Zozam

Punjab
Proposed state: Khalistan
Rebel organizations: Khalistan Commando Force, Babbar Khalsa International, Khalistan Zindabad Force, International Sikh Youth Federation, Khalistan Liberation Force

Tamil Nadu
Rebel organizations: Tamil National Retrieval Troops, Tamil Nadu Liberation Army

Telangana
Political parties: Telangana Rashtra Samithi, seeking to separate Telangana from Andhra Pradesh state. Various other minor groups such as Jai Telangana Party, Telangana Communist Party, Telangana Janata Party, Telangana Praja Samithi, Telangana Rashtra Party, Telangana Rashtra Sadhana Front, Telangana Rashtra Samithi and Telangana Sadhana Samithi.

Tripura
Rebel organizations: National Liberation Front of Tripura (two factions operating), All Tripura Tiger Force

Vidarbha
Political parties: Vidarbha Rajya Party, Vidarbha Vikas Party, seeking to separate Vidarbha from Maharashtra.

Zomi
Political parties: Zomi National Congress

Please note: I have not added the movements from Northeast India.
 
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Mate i'l be blunt. As long as India has the biggest gun in the region, Kashmir is going nowhere. International status of Kashmir be damned, you might think of it as a big deal, but its not. We'v seen the rules change to accomodate India and many other such countries. If you can pull your weight in the international arena, rules change to accomodate you.

You dont hear any other country apart from Pakistan refer to that status. The world recognizing the ground situation realizes that Kashmir is an Indian state. Only Pakistan seems to think that the international legal status matters. Dont you wonder why its only Pakistan and OIC countries who harp on the Kashmir issue and no other country?

If by other countries you mean the US, well one can argue over the vested interests the US has in India. Personal gains are well over anything else and who better would provide the example then the US it self. But as long the Issue is disputed in the UN which is an international body, it will be accepted as a disputed territory. Also from quite some time the issue was laid to rest purposely by Pakistan hoping to get it settle with India on table without the need of a loud cry in the international community. But since that did not happen, you can see the shift already changing. I agree with the gun part though in a sense that there is no political solution to it other then a military conflict.


Im lost here mate. What is the change in Pakistan's Kashmir policy?

Dude there is a hell of a difference in Pakistan's policy. Just refer to your leaders statements on the record. Its however another thing that India has not appreciated anything that we had to offer and which can lead for both the parties to adopt the same hard line approach as it was before. just yesterday i was watching the reviews of different political people over the news, and god it has been quite long since i had heard something like that from the Pakistani side. haven't you noticed India after all of this suddenly out of the blue has opposed president's impeachment.


No mate. I personally think that its high time that India stopped working with Pakistan on the Kashmir issue. Its time to look inwards. Take the drastic steps necessary. The one thing i agree with that the govt has done is spend good money on the border during these last years, from electrified layered fences to sensors bought from Israel. Its time to get our own act together. Enough of the pleasing.

Then its most unfortunate, as we will go back to square one and don't expect Pakistan to sit idle either. We will certainly do whatever there is in our power for this issue to get resolved one way or the other.
 
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What exactly is Pakistan's foreign policy? Musharraf is saying something, Zardari something else, Gilani is singing his own tune and ISI is following its own agenda.

Narayanan made it clear a few days back when he said quite bluntly that he did not know who to talk to in Pakistan.

Narayanan is living in a fools paradise. A guy who says destroy ISI and not Pakistan, was he even in his sense saying something like that or did he expected to deal with ISI other then Pakistan itself. I would take his statement with a pinch of salt. This is just an excuse to cover up the real issue. By the way all leaders including zardari have went way off limit in their Kashmir policy but even then India could not take advantage of the situation. Your leaders had openly accepted it. Heck even your pm was hoping to come to Pakistan because he thought this situation could not be missed, and then look where we are now. Definitely India is not interested in resolving this issue and neither in the peace process. We have seen that in baluchistan.
 
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Narayanan is living in a fools paradise. A guy who says destroy ISI and not Pakistan, was he even in his sense saying something like that or did he expected to deal with ISI other then Pakistan itself. I would take his statement with a pinch of salt. This is just an excuse to cover up the real issue. By the way all leaders including zardari have went way off limit in their Kashmir policy but even then India could not take advantage of the situation. Your leaders had openly accepted it. Heck even your pm was hoping to come to Pakistan because he thought this situation could not be missed, and then look where we are now. Definitely India is not interested in resolving this issue and neither in the peace process. We have seen that in baluchistan.

Whatever man....you can have your salt. Till Pakistan can settle its domestic situation and talk in one voice, I really don't see how the peace process can go forward.
 
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No wonder because of attitude like yours today India is have many secessionist movements.Some of them that might your media never tells you about, but exist,are as follows.

This is surely the kind of attitude that has brought situation to this end uptill now. I think you just spoke on behalf of your Govt and how indians think.

Dr. Umer,

Thank you for blaming me and my attitude for all the secessionist movements in India and yes my media doesn't report on news item w/o merit.

But what seems is that this time Kashmiries have thought if the 1bn+ Indians feel it should be a part of India, it bloody well will not be a part of india. Sorry pal, but you can't win everything with hollow claims unless you address the core issues involved.

Sorry Dr. Sahab but in a democracy Majority wins. Hollow claims? Address core issues? How? Give Pakistani and Chinese Kashmir to India with pre-47 demography and let India hold a plebiscite.. if that is unacceptable to Pakistan as Mushy said so then I am sorry this issue is just a dead goat, flogged to suit one's agenda.

Please note: I have not added the movements from Northeast India.

Please note you have, and Most of the movements are meant for redrawing state boundaries, heard of new states like Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, Uttarakhand?

I have also started a new movement to make Nariman Point a part of Kindom of Monaco.. its called Azad Monaco in Mumbai Movement.. Your media forgot to report on it.. please add it to the list

PS: I am interested to know where was Mr. Aziz during Kargil war? Why didn't Mr. Aziz march to LoC then? It was a golden opportunity for "freedom" if they so desired...
 
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If by other countries you mean the US, well one can argue over the vested interests the US has in India. Personal gains are well over anything else and who better would provide the example then the US it self. But as long the Issue is disputed in the UN which is an international body, it will be accepted as a disputed territory.
UN can do nothing mate. Accept it. It doesnt matter one cent if UN says that Kashmir is disputed or even for that matter if they say that Kashmir is a part of Pakistan. No action can or will be taken. No country will support Pakistan in its stand apart from OIC, which is a useless bunch of countries anyways. As far as UNSC is concerned, Russia will veto any resolution in the UNSC. And considering the relationship India has now, neither UK or France will support any action from the UNSC. US is on the moon with India, i dont see them supporting anything either. Only China would move such a motion, and tbh, even they wont do anything to jeopardize their bilateral relationship with us. This is tantamount to declaring hostility against India.

Also from quite some time the issue was laid to rest purposely by Pakistan hoping to get it settle with India on table without the need of a loud cry in the international community. But since that did not happen, you can see the shift already changing. I agree with the gun part though in a sense that there is no political solution to it other then a military conflict.
No military in the region can take Kashmir away from India.

Dude there is a hell of a difference in Pakistan's policy. Just refer to your leaders statements on the record. Its however another thing that India has not appreciated anything that we had to offer and which can lead for both the parties to adopt the same hard line approach as it was before. just yesterday i was watching the reviews of different political people over the news, and god it has been quite long since i had heard something like that from the Pakistani side.
Or maybe, since the Pakistani domestic situation is in shambles, all the leaders have found this scape goat. Musharraf maybe trying to deflect attention away from his impeachment! or maybe they are trying to turn the attention of the militants from Pakistan to Kashmir...

haven't you noticed India after all of this suddenly out of the blue has opposed president's impeachment.
Could you please give a link. I dont agree India would do such a thing.

Then its most unfortunate, as we will go back to square one and don't expect Pakistan to sit idle either. We will certainly do whatever there is in our power for this issue to get resolved one way or the other.
And what would be different?

Pakistan has been trying that since 1947, if you even count the fact that for the last few years, Pakistan was not trying, it is still a bloody long time.
And it includes from direct wars to indirect militancy, none of which has succeeded. Militancy has destroyed Pakistan's social fabric as well.

Today the direct military imbalance b/w India and Pakistan is the highest and is only growing. For indirect militancy, India has really used the period of calm to beef up its defences, a far cry when militants used to run around Kashmir in the open totting AK-47's at the peak of the militancy.
 
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Trauma Of Daily Violence In Jammu And Kashmir

Telling Upon Mental Health

By Syed Junaid Hashmi

Countercurrents.org - 20 June, 2007

Ravaged by conflict, traumatized by lack of accountability and strangled by social taboos, people in Jammu and Kashmiri have been both witness to and victims of violence which has had a significant effect on their mental health. While a sustainable political solution to "K" problem seems far away, psychological wounds inflicted by violence and impunity on the Kashmiri society continue to increase and go well beyond socio-economic problems.

Studies and survey's conducted by various reputed organizations and institutes have confirmed that Psychological problems have been increasing in Jammu and Kashmir. According to one survey conducted by state mental health society (SMHS), around 80,000 people from Kashmir valley visited various mental health professionals during the year 2005-2006 and nearly three-fourths were diagnosed with serious psychological disorders. This represents an over twenty percent increase from 2005 and reveals that the emotional and mental damage caused by the conflict continues to surge.

A survey report on Jammu and Kashmir by a Holland-based humanitarian group M‚decins Sans FrontiŠres (MSF) maintains that a third of its respondents suffered from psychological distress. Nearly one in 10 people reported having lost one or more members of their immediate family due to violence in the period from 1989-2005. The survey reported that almost half ( 48.1%) of the respondents said they felt only occasionally or never safe.

It also indicated that violence or the threat of physical violence seems to have had a significant effect on the mental health of people. It revealed that respondents suffered from high levels of anxiety such as nervousness, tension and extensive worrying.

The survey stated that a substantial number of people interviewed by them admitted to having thoughts about ending their life (33.9%). "Such a high percentage of suicidal tendencies within a population holding strong religious beliefs that condemn the act of suicide, is a worrying indicator of the level of despair and hopelessness in which people in Jammu and Kashmir are living," stressed a neurologist.

The survey also indicated high rates of physical complaints including headaches (23.5%), body pains such as joint and back complaints (20.5%), and abdominal complaints (16.9%). It reported that poor health placed a substantial burden on the area's health facilities, with most people saying they visit health clinics frequently ( 63.9%); some even four times or more. Medicine consumption was also high, with over one-third taking six or more medicines in the previous 30 days (37.9%).

According to MSF, Interviewees reported witnessing (73.3%) and directly experiencing themselves ( 44.1%), physical and psychological mistreatment, such as humiliation and threats thus causing extensive damage to their psychological health. A shocking finding of the survey was that torture appeared to be widespread suggesting that a strategy of intimidation and fear has been employed by army and paramilitary forces.

Maintaining that sexual violence has impinged upon the mental health of people in Jammu and Kashmir more than physical violence, the survey reported that sexual violence has been used as a common strategy to intimidate people in conflict. 11.6% of interviewees said they had been victims of sexual violence since 1989. Almost two-thirds of the people interviewed (63.9%) by MSF had heard over a similar period about cases of rape, while one in seven had witnessed rape.


The worst hit have been the children among whom the major effect of the violence reported in this survey has been fear (24.6%). School-related problems also scored highly, such as being unable to attend school (15.5%) and having problems studying ( 16.3%) due to the lack of professional teachers and study material.

Respondents told the surveyors that people deal with stress by isolating themselves (22.3%) or becoming aggressive (16%). They further informed them that talking confidentially to someone they trust is helpful when confronted with tension ( 89.4%). It is essentially this survey which brought out the real picture of the mental health of people in Jammu and Kashmir. The findings of the survey revealed a bleak picture of the mental health of people in the conflict-afflicted region and raised important questions about the government's failure to adequately provide mental health services to the population.

Overburdened, understaffed, and in-demand, this is the state of mental health care in Kashmir. The Psychiatric Diseases Hospital at Kaathi Darwaza is the only refuge for mental patients in Kashmir, and its doctors, facilities, and supplies have long been grossly inadequate. According to one report, records from the out-patient department (OPD) of Srinagar's Hospital for Psychiatric Diseases show that more than 300 people arrive every day.

It stated that most self-admitting patients are women aged between 16 to 25. Because of the social stigma associated with psychological disorders, doctors believe that no more than 10 percent of those in need of psychiatric care are actually approaching the hospital. One outcome of this under-treated trauma is an increase in teenage girl suicides.

According to another report published in a local daily, 19-year-old Jameela witnessed her aunt being killed while working in the kitchen and later also witnessed a shootout in her locality. With no history of psychiatric problems, she began suffering from post-traumatic stress disorders: recurrent, intrusive and distressing recollection of the events, marked irritability, outbursts of anger, difficulty in concentrating, sleeplessness, sadness, and disinterest in all social, domestic and college activities. Following a minor altercation with her sister, she consumed pesticide and ended her life.

A statistical report of the state health and medical education department revealed that on an average, two to three cases of attempted suicide are admitted into Srinagar's two main hospitals on regular basis. A large number of people from the villages die on the way or in local health centers.

Psychologists maintain that people living at a place ravaged by conflict are often faced with a number of Psychological problems. They say that the physical environment in which people live and survive has a direct bearing on their mental health. "Stress caused by feelings of insecurity and dependency can deplete physical and psychological buoyancy leading to varied mental problems, this has happened in most of the cases in Jammu and Kashmir," said Dr.Adarsh Bhargav He maintained that crackdowns, frisking by security forces and round-up raids in villages have a deep impact on the mental health of the people. "When you find yourself in the middle of a situation where your movement gets restricted, where you have to follow orders, where you are abused and humiliated, where your imaginations fail to take a flight and where your identity always remains a suspect, you are bound to suffer from Psychological disorders," added the young practicing Psychologist.

A young neurologist Dr.Nida who is presently doing her masters from a reputed institute in Delhi maintained that since 1990, the number of mental patients in Kashmir Valley have increased from 1500 to nearly 1 Lakh in 2006.

"Around 60 to 70 percent of these patients are suffering from depression, bipolar disorder or schizophrenia; all of these disorders are of serious nature, apart from these problems, there are many other psychological complications associated with violence which can be easily noticed among the people in Kashmir valley," added Dr.Nida.

She maintained that situation has come to a stage where people feel so unsafe that they prefer staying in hospital than going home. Increasing psychological and neurological problems among the people in Jammu and Kashmir begs further discussion of the continuing situation of impunity in Kashmir for those who perpetrate acts of terror and violence without any fear of being caught and held accountable. Until this atmosphere of impunity is not addressed, psychological problems are bound to increase.

Trauma Of Daily Violence In Jammu And Kashmir Telling Upon Mental Health By Syed Junaid Hashmi
 
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Its was PML-Q that voiced against this oppression. Nawaz league and their PPP babies are busy freeing the judges and working on the word document for the creation of charge sheet against [zardari accent]GENEERRRRRRRRRALL PERVEEEEEEEEEAAZ MUSHAAARRAAAAAAAAAFF!!!!!!!! [zardari accent/]
 
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No thanks we don't want it, if we did we would have not included our side of Kashmir into the equation and so is the aksai chin. We want a solution to it that deems fit to the Kashmir i People. If people of Kashmir are fine with India why would Pakistan have any problem with that, don't you think If results were favorable in India's favor, a long awaited plebiscite as promised by the Indian authorities would have been conducted. But that did not happen. Hold a plebiscite in Kashmir, the out come will force all parties to accept it even if that out come is in favor of India, Pakistan will automatically be booted out from the equation as we will have no justification to highlight the issue anymore.

Oh please; so you are saying that Pakistan does not want Kashmir? Really, why all the wars and the proxy conflicts? Why so many lives wasted?

You want a free Kashmir so that you can amalgamate it. Everybody is very well aware of how free AJK is. PS: Why is AJK not an independent nation in the UN?

Why should we hold a plebiscite in Kashmir (only Kashmir?)? Why? Especially given that the entire state is disputed and the fact that you guys have screwed up the original demographics of the region to suit your benefit?

We ain't holding any plebicsite other than the usual elections that happen in every part of our country.
 
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