Sharif raises alarm over Taliban

[Contrarian]

Musharraf was a different case, he knew exactly how to maintain a balance between the two sides and that is why he lost all US Support in the end though i agree he made certain bad decisions and it was too late for him to sail Pakistan away from the US NEXUS.

Musharraf was not doing anything either against the Taliban and other terrorists. He was paying lip service to the Americans. In hindsight , im sure you'l agree that not combating the Taliban deliberately was a huge mistake. Musharraf was still holding onto the old notions that these terrorists would obey Islamabad's directives.

 

[fatman17]

"...and they are? u gave me a tough time on this one a few days ago in the TT! but thats OK!"

You've been out in front of this. So too Muse, Rabzon, and All-Green-maybe Niaz and Mastan Khan. Others chip in now and again, showing glimpses only to slide back.

No sense committing too soon when you don't know which way the wind will blow.

The west just isn't the enemy here and while I think that there's a "hidden hand" of my own, they play a minor role compared to the obvious issues right before Pakistanis that require immediate attention as a matter of state.

Yeah, hope those tough decisions get made real soon...

kinetic type i hope!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No sense committing too soon when you don't know which way the wind will blow.

Actually, its a pretty simple case of giving various policies a chance, because people believe in it - attributing the conditional support of people to 'hidden hands' and 'hidden agenda's' is just more 'chasing of irhabi shadows everywhere'.

Whether the outcome appears obvious or not to some is irrelevant, it was an important step to take given the political climate and opinions in Pakistan at that time.

People have to learn to accept a difference of opinion without accusing those disagreeing of being 'US lackey's' or 'Taliban sympathizers'.

Still waiting for FM to justify his comment to me, since I have no clue what he's on about.

 

[batmannow]

Monday, April 20, 2009
Says fight against militancy, extremism can be won by good governance

By our correspondent
The News International - No. 1 English Newspaper from Pakistan - Tuesday, April 21, 2009

LAHORE: PML-N Quaid Nawaz Sharif has said the Swat agreement is a good accord, which was imperative to restore peace in the valley. He reiterated that they would support the PPP government at the Centre as the country could not afford political confrontation.
Talking to media persons at the residence of PPP Secretary General Jehangir Badr, where he had gone to congratulate him on the wedding of his son Ali Badr, Nawaz said reconciliation was in the best interest of the country and all the political forces must play an effective role to achieve this goal.


GEO Pakistan
Taliban want control outside Swat also: Nawaz
Updated at: 1040 PST, Tuesday, April 21, 2009

LAHORE: Pakistan's top opposition leader, former prime minister Nawaz Sharif, expressed concern Monday about a controversial peace deal with Islamist militants but backed off calls he made last month for a "revolution" to topple the government.Unable to contain an insurgency through military force, Pakistan's government agreed last week to let Taliban militants impose sharia, or Islamic law, in the northern Swat Valley region. Sharif said militants there are trying to export their particularly harsh version of sharia, in which the hands of thieves are amputated, women are forbidden from going outside, and adulterers are stoned to death.

he, can say something today & can say different the next day!

 

[S-2]

"People have to learn to accept a difference of opinion without accusing those disagreeing of being 'US lackey's' or 'Taliban sympathizers'."

Some people will never learn when enough is enough. How many disagreements had been broken already and from what basis of leverage was this agreement made-an army ready to wash its hands of the affair?

Destined for failure and all too clear to everybody. Take a bow for going the extra mile but do so knowing you went into this agreement from a position of abject weakness and you've the predictable result of which you were warned so we'll fairly brook no criticism for being correct.

You don't negotiate from weakness. Not a sovereign gov't on its own soil. Worse, you've opened a Pandora's box of exceptionalism for SWAT or any other entity now and in the future resulting from this temporal accomodation.

When you've all chosen your various forms of laws for your neighborhoods, please let the rest of us know which ones are PAKISTANI LAWS.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Some people will never learn when enough is enough. How many disagreements had been broken already and from what basis of leverage was this agreement made-an army ready to wash its hands of the affair?

You are sidestepping the point you quoted.

Whether you saw it or not, the agreement was/is different from the ones inked before in that the GoP was hoping to utilize Sufi's influence to get the Taliban to disarm once the NAR was imposed. The NAR itself had been in the works for years, that wasn't the issue. The issue was whether the implementation at that moment in time with the support of Sufi could be used to persuade the Taliban to disarm.

Public and political opinion was strongly in favor of attempting this approach, as it now increasingly seems to be turning against the Taliban.

When you've all chosen your various forms of laws for your neighborhoods, please let the rest of us know which ones are PAKISTANI LAWS.

The NAR will likely stay even if the Taliban are defeated in Swat, as I mentioned before the NAR had been in the works for many years. Pakistan's legal system also contains both regular and Shariah courts at both provincial and federal levels, including a Shariat bench of the Supreme Court.

These are Pakistani laws.

 

[TOPGUN]

Forget about this trader NS the gov the people need to stand up to these cowards and clean up this trash once and for all!!

 

[S-2]

I see nothing functionally different in the outcome here from negotiations with these men at any time in Pakistan. Tell me each situation is unique and I'll tell you the outcome in every instance has been the same.

Sharia had sat on a table for thirteen years without implementation. This was the vehicle that Faizullah and Mohammad have rode and it splits your country like no external conspiracy.

Did the citizens of Pakistan agree to these laws? Does that not matter? I won't point out the reasons as they should be clear to informed citizens.

The exceptionalism was wrong to begin. The subsequent mutilation and perversion by Mohammad, et al. make clear it was intended as a cause celebre' and never as a functional objective.

Were these men not supposed to fade away with the agreement? One dissemblance after another though.

I'm sorry but your gov't. were warned to not negotiate, much less while projecting such manifest weakness. This is a tragedy but, fortunately, not a nat'l one.

Were that so, the army would be stomping all over this until they are no more.

Pakomar and others are predicting a big op in SWAT. Rumors in Islamabad and Rawapindi.

Thank God if so. Truly, truly, truly...

Let us hope.

 

[Patriot]

I see nothing functionally different in the outcome here from negotiations with these men at any time in Pakistan. Tell me each situation is unique and I'll tell you the outcome in every instance has been the same.

Sharia had sat on a table for thirteen years without implementation. This was the vehicle that Faizullah and Mohammad have rode and it splits your country like no external conspiracy.

Did the citizens of Pakistan agree to these laws? Does that not matter? I won't point out the reasons as they should be clear to informed citizens.

The exceptionalism was wrong to begin. The subsequent mutilation and perversion by Mohammad, et al. make clear it was intended as a cause celebre' and never as a functional objective.

Were these men not supposed to fade away with the agreement? One dissemblance after another though.

I'm sorry but your gov't. were warned to not negotiate, much less while projecting such manifest weakness. This is a tragedy but, fortunately, not a nat'l one.

Were that so, the army would be stomping all over this until they are no more.

Pakomar and others are predicting a big op in SWAT. Rumors in Islamabad and Rawapindi.

Thank God if so. Truly, truly, truly...

Let us hope.

Steve I Disagree regarding deal.Deal has provided Army full reason to go and kill these Talibs.The whole nation has seen real face of Talibans.Instead of disarming they are capturing more territory even opposition political parties are supporting war against Talibs now.So i think Army should go in now with full force (200k+ Soldiers) backed by Air Force, Army Aviation (Cobras).Time to use some weapons

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I see nothing functionally different in the outcome here from negotiations with these men at any time in Pakistan. Tell me each situation is unique and I'll tell you the outcome in every instance has been the same.

I disagree, there was a difference and a slim ray of hope for the reasons I explained.

Did the citizens of Pakistan agree to these laws?

Elected representatives proposed and implemented these laws (plus the fact that Shariah courts exist as part of the legal system almost everywhere else in Pakistan as well) so I imagine they must have, or are we talking about 'rule by referendum' now?

 

[S-2]

"...are we talking about 'rule by referendum' now?"

The people's will need not require a referendum to possess a nat'l debate. I'd think that the ultimate responsibility for such would lie with your legislature and judiciary. I sense that there isn't equal application of the state's laws but confess to not understanding how you can have parallel systems and that SWAT is such a LATE COMER to sharia courts.

This seems odd and calls to question if there was an established precedent of such elsewhere, why the difficulties identifying the mechanisms to implement the same here?

Again, is this sharia as defined by the state elsewhere or have you permitted a small body of armed militants to reshape your religious laws without mandate nor expertise?

And at what cost?

 

[Awesome]

Sharif really needs to show that hes a real leader by showing the same resolve he did when tackling the judiciary issue.

We need a march to Swat!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Again, is this sharia as defined by the state elsewhere or have you permitted a small body of armed militants to reshape your religious laws without mandate nor expertise?

The NAR is defined by the state and the systems laid out in the NAR are controlled by the State.

The NAR is therefore not the issue, the issue is whether the Taliban will disarm in exchange for the implementation of the Nizam-e-Adl.

 

[S-2]

The converse being that they remain armed and impose their version, no?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The converse being that they remain armed and impose their version, no?

Correct - one thing to realize is that the deal itself did not give away all that much strategically to the Taliban. The bigger losses came after the elections and the 'ceasefire' and peace deals initiated by the PPP and ANP.

Roggio will disagree, but the military had the Taliban on the run and out of most major towns and settled areas at that time. The recent peace deal came about in an environment where the Taliban had already moved back into the towns and villages they had been removed from and had increased in size with reinforcements. The Army had moved forces to the East, there was mounting collateral damage and refugees, and a strong public and political opinion in favor of implementing the NAR.

Its a human trait - people don't want to make hard choices, and full fledged war, thousands killed and hundreds of thousands made refugees is a very had choice. So people latched onto the idea that this Nizam-e-adl regulation that had been pending for so many years was the solution.

The TNSM took up arms in favor of Shariah in 1994, and Mullah Fazlullah framed his activities in the same language, so it wasn't entirely irrational for Pakistanis to believe its implementation would help bring peace.