Shame on Iran

[Thomas]

No it is not dangerous in Iran to be christian. You are totally ignorant.
I am from Esfahan neighbourhood . We have a large communauty of christians there and they never never have problems. they have their own business , good restaurants, and the strong communauty (armenians)
As well in Esfahan you have the Jew communauty and nobody attacked them

This is your fantasm that christians are persecuted in Iran. just your fantasm.

And no it is completely fake story that in june 28th the supreme court in Qom made such statement. There was never any source about it. if so give me the link please, i mean an official link since it is an official procedure.

About communauties there is one persecuted one: the baha'is
and it si very limited to practice zoroastrian religion ..

stop this bullshit about persecution

despite what you say about no persecution I know it goes on. My job brings me in contact with Christians from all over the world including Iran who are experiencing persecution.

I am searching for more on Fars article. I found this one old link perhaps you can translate it. I think it doesn't say anything about rape. it says something about house corruption and being a zionist.

FarsNewsAgency -

 

[Hussein]

Longbrained

That was a said post - All organized religions associated with empire building have much to be ashamed of - and there is indeed propaganda from ALL sides -- what saddens me is that you seem to overlooked Mr. Naderkhani, a real person - it's not that Mr. Naderkhani stands convicted, but rather the "crime" he stands convicted of, that is at issue - lets be mindful that sins are for God to judge, Crimes for men to judge and when we mix these things up, we put much at risk - tomorrow, it may be someone else who will be threatened with death or recantation - this medieval sense cannot have any place in civilization such as Iran

i agree with you
anyway it is a very long time that nobody was killed for apostasy in Iran
like it is written in the article
BUT they are many people who were executed for : having insulted Khamenei. When you insult Khamenei Khamenei it means you insult Islam and they name you "ennemy of Islam" <- this story is true

but see the reality: even in France that they call themselves a laic country: they asked christian iraqis to come in France... not muslims or any other religions.. just christians. and then a lot of "specialists" came to the tv say how christians suffer in this world and all this blabla
i can see in the Thomas behavior above the same attitude : some people will always believe their religion is the good one and as well the one that is martyrdom from all the bad guys of the world... how to say .. ah yes Bush said "the evil countries"

The fact is much more muslims die in Iraq compared to population and it is the same in Iran
in Iran we get a lot of trouble if you do something to christians or jews because the country doesn't want to show a bad picture of the country which persecutes the other religions

Only baha'is are suffering : they are killed ..

About zoroastrians: we have programs on tv and they can pray and practice their religion in temples
But in the same time, it is not allowed to show much of our heritage from this religion: for exemple it is forbidden to jump on fire... you can se many videos on youtube people are arrested for this
yeah some minority of "fanatic and stupid" guys are anti zoroastrian anti iranian heritage. they just want us to be "muslims" like arabs. but we are not.

 

[muse]

Hussein
'

We cannot justify our misdeeds by pointing to the misdeeds of others, we are responsible for our behavior not the behaviors of those in France -- Silko was also outraged and he though it unfair - but the reality is that we are responsible for our behavior, not the behavior of those in France or Oslo.

It would as if we are saying that we will do injury and harm to ourselves, because someone in France or Oslo is a idiot - that would be an obviously stupid thing to do and we should not resort to such arguments

 

[Hussein]

Hussein
'

We cannot justify our misdeeds by pointing to the misdeeds of others, we are responsible for our behavior not the behaviors of those in France -- Silko was also outraged and he though it unfair - but the reality is that we are responsible for our behavior, not the behavior of those in France or Oslo.

It would as if we are saying that we will do injury and harm to ourselves, because someone in France or Oslo is a idiot - that would be an obviously stupid thing to do and we should not resort to such arguments

i totally agree with you muse

but again the justice in Iran is nothing democratic : the chief of Justice is named by Khamenei (larijani are very close to him) and the minister of Justice is the only minister that is not named by president and the only one who didn't have to "obey " to the president
so it is not a matter of Iranians but the Iranian regime or the Iranian leader.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Iranian culture has usually been one of tolerance ---it's an ancient civilization. In fact it only became an Islamic Republic much later in its existence. Now even amongst the Islamists in Iran, there is much division over how they want the country to be run --domestically and on international level.

Iran would be much better served by a more pragmatic, forward-looking and less self-isolating leadership/establishment.


if this story is true --and not propaganda -- then i would say that moves like these are definitely not helpful for the country's image......

 

[Hussein]

despite what you say about no persecution I know it goes on. My job brings me in contact with Christians from all over the world including Iran who are experiencing persecution.

I am searching for more on Fars article. I found this one old link perhaps you can translate it. I think it doesn't say anything about rape. it says something about house corruption and being a zionist.

FarsNewsAgency -

sorry to say but this video is a propaganda video, nothing to do with the reality of Iran

About the fars news article,
they say it is because he is zionist and having a house of prostitutes (business of prostitutes)
nothing else
about zionist as you know it is always this word used for condemning many people... they don't care you are a zionist or not... they are sick minded ; they see zionist like evil so all the time something is bad in their eyes they will say "zionist" /.... stupid attitude i agree

 

[muse]

i totally agree with you muse

but again the justice in Iran is nothing democratic : the chief of Justice is named by Khamenei (larijani are very close to him) and the minister of Justice is the only minister that is not named by president and the only one who didn't have to "obey " to the president
so it is not a matter of Iranians but the Iranian regime or the Iranian leader.

This argument is difficult to appreciate because it is not the Minister of Justice that has made this a personal mission or Khamenei - but rather a group of hardliners who have chosen to exploit this law and sensibility. See, it's the existence of the law on the books that is a problem, where such a law not on the books the issue would not even come up.

It's important for you and all Iranians to remember that here on Defense.pk you are among those who appreciate Iran, who are aware and value the deep cultural, religious and linguist heritage we share - you never need to be defensive with us, we will be with you in whatever way we can be - but lets not hide from our shortcomings, instead lets confront them and make them right.

 

[Hussein]

This argument is difficult to appreciate because it is not the Minister of Justice that has made this a personal mission or Khamenei - but rather a group of hardliners who have chosen to exploit this law and sensibility. See, it's the existence of the law on the books that is a problem, where such a law not on the books the issue would not even come up.

It's important for you and all Iranians to remember that here on Defense.pk you are among those who appreciate Iran, who are aware and value the deep cultural, religious and linguist heritage we share - you never need to be defensive with us, we will be with you in whatever way we can be - but lets not hide from our shortcomings, instead lets confront them and make them right.

all justice in Iran is a crap. even local. all mastered by chief of justice. and of course they name the hardliners like you say.

you imagine like you are in a normal country with local power and democratic issues. but this is not like that in Iran.

let me tell a story i heard many times but this one is from a friend in emirates: his father was doing a business and one client of him stole him his machines , never paid and never gave back. the mullah in charge when he entered the room was totally not fonctionnal: he was smoking too much you know what i mean he wrote that his father was guilty. He didn't want to come back on this decision. His father went even to jail for three months! he tried to convince the mullah but the mullah because he didn't want to say he was wrong didn't care. And it is no possibility for his father to complain: there is no legal procedure there is no "other way" of complain against justice.

 

[muse]

I know the judicial system there all too well - the Mostafezen now own much of what my father once owned

 

[Thomas]

sorry to say but this video is a propaganda video, nothing to do with the reality of Iran

About the fars news article,
they say it is because he is zionist and having a house of prostitutes (business of prostitutes)
nothing else
about zionist as you know it is always this word used for condemning many people... they don't care you are a zionist or not... they are sick minded ; they see zionist like evil so all the time something is bad in their eyes they will say "zionist" /.... stupid attitude i agree

explain to me what you believe is untrue about the videos? there are plenty of sources documenting religious persecution in Iran. Here is an Amnesty International report. there are UN reports as well.

Iranian Christian pastor accused of 'apostasy' must be released | Amnesty International

"Yousef Nadarkhani is one of many lawyers, students, human rights activists, protesters, other dissidents and members of religious and ethnic minorities who are persecuted by the Iranian authorities for expressing opinions or beliefs which diverge from official viewpoints," said Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui.

"Freedom of expression and belief are guaranteed under international human rights treaties that Iran has ratified. All prisoners of conscience held for their beliefs, including those from the Christian, Baha&#8217;i and dervish communities, must be freed."
Christians have faced increased persecution in Iran since the disputed presidential election of 2009. Senior officials &#8211; including the Supreme Leader - have repeatedly made statements about the need to combat &#8220;false beliefs&#8221;, believed to refer to evangelical Christianity, Baha&#8217;ism and Sufism.

Farshid Fathi, a 33-year-old Christian, has reportedly been held at Tehran's Evin Prison - apparently without charge, trial or access to a lawyer - since he was seized by police at his home in September 2010.

Earlier this month, an appeal court upheld a one-year prison sentence imposed on six members of the Church of Iran. They had been convicted in April 2011 of "propaganda against the state", reportedly for proselytizing."

 

[lem34]

Longbrained

That was a said post - All organized religions associated with empire building have much to be ashamed of - and there is indeed propaganda from ALL sides -- what saddens me is that you seem to overlooked Mr. Naderkhani, a real person - it's not that Mr. Naderkhani stands convicted, but rather the "crime" he stands convicted of, that is at issue - lets be mindful that sins are for God to judge, Crimes for men to judge and when we mix these things up, we put much at risk - tomorrow, it may be someone else who will be threatened with death or recantation - this medieval sense cannot have any place in civilization such as Iran

Muse my understanding is that if this guy made a statement and recanted he would be free to go?-if so he is trying to make capital & propaganda he has chosen his ground and wants to make a point. He could recant leave the country and claim political asylum in another country. Yea the law may be wrong bad or whatever but he is only in danger because he wants to use this for ulterior motives

 

[muse]

Aryan

You are not thinking - He is an iranian, he is not there as a favor to anybody - And why should he recant? Why don't those who don't like it that his conscience is his, leave the country of their birth??

You are just not thinking -- Will you publicly renounce that you are a Muslim?? Why then should Mr. Naderkhani renounce that he is a Christian??

It is not just unreasonable, but inhuman and inhumane

 

[Thomas]

Muse my understanding is that if this guy made a statement and recanted he would be free to go?-if so he is trying to make capital & propaganda he has chosen his ground and wants to make a point. He could recant leave the country and claim political asylum in another country. Yea the law may be wrong bad or whatever but he is only in danger because he wants to use this for ulterior motives

Becuase as a Christian he believes this scripture.

"But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven." - Matthew 10:33

 

[lem34]

This is not a midiveal sense my friend. Read the history. And you did not answer the questions. What if such a campaign is launched against Pakistan? What would be your response? Mr. Naderkhani, a real person, should also know the reality that the Christian west is in a cold war with Iran. He should also know that trying to milk political gains for west through Christianity in Iran is unacceptable for Iranian government. So when he does that, in effect, he is engaging in soft war on behalf of west against Iran. The implications should be very real to Mr. Naderkhani in this regard.

excellent expose

---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------

Aryan

You are not thinking - He is an iranian, he is not there as a favor to anybody - And why should he recant? Why don't those who don't like it that his conscience is his, leave the country of their birth??

You are just not thinking -- Will you publicly renounce that you are a Muslim?? Why then should Mr. Naderkhani renounce that he is a Christian??

It is not just unreasonable, but inhuman and inhumane

I accept that its unreasonable. But his life is only in danger cos he wants to make a political point. Im not saying what the state is doing to him is right at all

 

[muse]

Becuase as a Christian he believes this scripture.

"But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven." - Matthew 10:33

That's Why we have said and continue to say, that we must differentiate between SINS and CRIMES - the two are not the same. Let God in Heaven judge sins, and let not men usurp the responsibilities of Heaven