Shame on Iran

[RazPaK]

He is trying to demonize the administration in Iran and making a political statement. He deserves punishment for his sneaky tactics.

 

[muse]

excellent expose

---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------



I accept that its unreasonable. But his life is only in danger cos he wants to make a political point. Im not saying what the state is doing to him is right at all

Quite the other way around, it is the state that seeks to make a point, to make an example

 

[JonAsad]

This is not a midiveal sense my friend. Read the history. And you did not answer the questions. What if such a campaign is launched against Pakistan? What would be your response? Mr. Naderkhani, a real person, should also know the reality that the Christian west is in a cold war with Iran. He should also know that trying to milk political gains for west through Christianity in Iran is unacceptable for Iranian government. So when he does that, in effect, he is engaging in soft war on behalf of west against Iran. The implications should be very real to Mr. Naderkhani in this regard.

Nice post-
Mr. Naderkhani was set up from the beginning-

 

[lem34]

Becuase as a Christian he believes this scripture.

"But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven." - Matthew 10:33

Thomas I think that this iranian law is bad inhumane etc. But a number of us have made the point that we have in all countries some bad laws and it is up to the iranian people to sort out this mess. The problem is that we see so much western propaganda against iran for example Saudie we cant help but think that west has ulterior motives. In my view saudies and the very harsh interpretation of islam they propagate is something that should get more attention than iranians but they dont cos they are americas and zionisms friends relative to iran in my opinion

---------- Post added at 09:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 PM ----------

Quite the other way around, it is the state that seeks to make a point, to make an example

Even if i was to accept your assertion which for the avoidance of doubt I dont name me a govt in the world that hasnt at one time or another trampled on human rights. I am just stating that its irans problem its for iranians to sort out.

---------- Post added at 09:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------

That's Why we have said and continue to say, that we must differentiate between SINS and CRIMES - the two are not the same. Let God in Heaven judge sins, and let not men usurp the responsibilities of Heaven

why do you refuse to acknowledge the points that i am making that its irans problem it needs to be sorted by iranians and the propaganda angle?

 

[Hussein]

explain to me what you believe is untrue about the videos? there are plenty of sources documenting religious persecution in Iran. Here is an Amnesty International report. there are UN reports as well.

Iranian Christian pastor accused of 'apostasy' must be released | Amnesty International

"Yousef Nadarkhani is one of many lawyers, students, human rights activists, protesters, other dissidents and members of religious and ethnic minorities who are persecuted by the Iranian authorities for expressing opinions or beliefs which diverge from official viewpoints," said Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui.

"Freedom of expression and belief are guaranteed under international human rights treaties that Iran has ratified. All prisoners of conscience held for their beliefs, including those from the Christian, Baha’i and dervish communities, must be freed."
Christians have faced increased persecution in Iran since the disputed presidential election of 2009. Senior officials – including the Supreme Leader - have repeatedly made statements about the need to combat “false beliefs”, believed to refer to evangelical Christianity, Baha’ism and Sufism.

Farshid Fathi, a 33-year-old Christian, has reportedly been held at Tehran's Evin Prison - apparently without charge, trial or access to a lawyer - since he was seized by police at his home in September 2010.

Earlier this month, an appeal court upheld a one-year prison sentence imposed on six members of the Church of Iran. They had been convicted in April 2011 of "propaganda against the state", reportedly for proselytizing."

who is Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui? not an Iranian. how she would know about our country?
she is from Algeria
lol

Farshid Fathi was not arrested because he was christian
thousands of Iranians were arrested after the uprising and for the year to come after this
yo uknow how they could find the people who were in the streets? thank you the Siemens technology provided to Iran: they checked the call and the sms sent .. with phone number they find adress and arrest people
and of course what charge they give to people? they took a few of them and killed them with charge of "ennemy of Islam"
they wanted to threaten the people and still they do

yeah "propaganda against the state" is typical what they charge you when you go to street to

you give exemples but none of them were killed. you know i can give you hundred names of people killed... all of them are muslims...

 

[muse]

why do you refuse to acknowledge the points that i am making that its irans problem it needs to be sorted by iranians and the propaganda angle?

I'm not refusing to acknowledge this what I am refusing to acknowledge is that we are not all connected, that the fate of one effects us all - ALL, especially Muslims

 

[lem34]

Hussein
'

We cannot justify our misdeeds by pointing to the misdeeds of others, we are responsible for our behavior not the behaviors of those in France -- Silko was also outraged and he though it unfair - but the reality is that we are responsible for our behavior, not the behavior of those in France or Oslo.


It would as if we are saying that we will do injury and harm to ourselves, because someone in France or Oslo is a idiot - that would be an obviously stupid thing to do and we should not resort to such arguments

well muse let iranians sort out their own misdeeds they are responsible not us not americans

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------

I'm not refusing to acknowledge this what I am refusing to acknowledge is that we are not all connected, that the fate of one effects us all - ALL, especially Muslims

I accept that. But I will not join people like americans who use these unfortunate incidents as a propaganda tool for ulterior motives.

 

[muse]

I will not join people like americans who use these unfortunate incidents as a propaganda tool for ulterior motives.

If we had the confidence in ourselves and would speak up for conscience, Americans, Zionists and martians or Mysterians from the 8th dimension, would not have the opportunity to use such misdeeds/

 

[lem34]

If we had the confidence in ourselves and would speak up for conscience, Americans, Zionists and martians or Mysterians from the 8th dimension, would not have the opportunity to use such misdeeds/

But we do. You me and a number of other pakistanis and muslims have come on here and stated we dont like whats going on there. I do not regard the concept human rights as an absolute one. I think its a relative concept. I think all countries are at different stages. Yes we need to move towards our utopia, we will keep moving that way. Take gay persecution in west until very recently gays were persecuted. Blacks were not allowed to vote. Yet the west has a habit of being smug and appointing themselves as the guardians of human rights. look at the abuses america allows israel to get away with F16s attacking civilian poulations... no thought of a no fly zone there is there. Its this ulterior motives and external interference that we need to keep an eye on

 

[Thomas]

who is Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui? not an Iranian. how she would know about our country?
she is from Algeria
lol

Farshid Fathi was not arrested because he was christian
thousands of Iranians were arrested after the uprising and for the year to come after this
yo uknow how they could find the people who were in the streets? thank you the Siemens technology provided to Iran: they checked the call and the sms sent .. with phone number they find adress and arrest people
and of course what charge they give to people? they took a few of them and killed them with charge of "ennemy of Islam"
they wanted to threaten the people and still they do

yeah "propaganda against the state" is typical what they charge you when you go to street to

you give exemples but none of them were killed. you know i can give you hundred names of people killed... all of them are muslims...

marty'rd is not the same as being persecuted though it can be the end result. being threatened with arrest, threatened with the loss of your children if you don't give names, or falsely testify agianst those in prison, arrested, beaten, and tortured is persecution. And all those things are going on in Iran. I am not talking as someone who is just reading internet articles and posting. My work relates directly with Christian persecution around the world.

 

[longbrained]

marty'rd is not the same as being persecuted though it can be the end result. being threatened with arrest, threatened with the loss of your children if you don't give names, or falsely testify agianst those in prison, arrested, beaten, and tortured is persecution. And all those things are going on in Iran. I am not talking as someone who is just reading internet articles and posting. My work relates directly with Christian persecution around the world.

United States massacres any one whose religion ever dares to ideologically challenge the might of United States government, in the process killing babies, pregnant women and burning at stake to death any survivor of massacre. In this regard United States should not have any objection on Iran investigating a fake Pastor who is on the pay roll of Mosad/CIA trying to create divisions in Iran and weakening its foundations in anticipation for the arrival of western forces in Tehran.

 

[lem34]

marty'rd is not the same as being persecuted though it can be the end result. being threatened with arrest, threatened with the loss of your children if you don't give names, or falsely testify agianst those in prison, arrested, beaten, and tortured is persecution. And all those things are going on in Iran. I am not talking as someone who is just reading internet articles and posting. My work relates directly with Christian persecution around the world.

We agree with you Thomas its terrible. However american govt and Zionists are just as bad. Because they use incidents like these for ulterior motives. Remember the kid who cried wolf. We are all aware of the unjustified propaganda against iran from americans and sometines these incidents get lost in the haze of propaganda. So in my opinion american govt is responsible for this persons plight as well because if there wasnt negative propaganda all the time from west about iran perhaps more of us would stand up and be critical of iran. we sort of got anti iran propaganda fatigue

 

[Hussein]

marty'rd is not the same as being persecuted though it can be the end result. being threatened with arrest, threatened with the loss of your children if you don't give names, or falsely testify agianst those in prison, arrested, beaten, and tortured is persecution. And all those things are going on in Iran. I am not talking as someone who is just reading internet articles and posting. My work relates directly with Christian persecution around the world.

yes as you say there is persecution but not persecution especially on christians but Iranian citizens who open their mouths and go to the street

if you say persecution about one religion then you should quote baha'is first
not speaking about soufism
you can freely be christian in iran and nobody is arrested or killed for that
it is what i mean and that Iranians know

So your job is to look for christian suffering worldwide?
strange job. i mean why not looking for all people suffering why especially one type of persons?
i am muslim from conservative family but if people are suffering i don'"t care they are muslims or not. my religion teachs me to act good for everybody.

you said the name of an Algerian woman.
not a long time ago, in Algeria there was an evangelist group which was naming the Islam a bad religion and asked the people to convert to the godness. Algeria government for security matter arrested a few of them. A few of christians came to say it was a persecution of christians in Algeria. Strange attitude.
If extremist muslims say bad things about christians here and say they should better change their religion for Islam, i will immediately criticize their behavior. social peace and respect are important.

Again since many years evangelist in France many times are focusing on China to say they are persecuted there.
But it comes to the facts, there is neither a serious article a serious proof of persecution.

We should change our minds , muslims or christians to look for being persecuted.
How many stupid young african who don't make an effort for working or going to school... say they are persecuted because they are muslims. everyone knows it is not true. we could say here in France being muslim it is much much harder to find a job than non muslims: but should we say we are persecuted? no because it is still this old "thinking way" of French people that with generations it will disappear .. i mean with generations less and less will think muslims are not real French citizens

In Iran shias have much more easily jobs , and you put in the same package the sunnis with the christians or the zoroastrians
But till now i never heard a story about christians beaten because of religion and arrested because of religion

I understand some people want to fantasm about it. But as a christian or a muslim what is important is truth, right?

 

[muse]

But till now i never heard a story about christians beaten because of religion and arrested because of religion

I understand some people want to fantasm about it. But as a christian or a muslim what is important is truth, right?

So, you are not denying the case of Mr. Naderkhani, and that is a big plus - Yes, certainly, whether Christian or Muslim or Bahai, or any other, to persecute peolpe based on their confession is condemnable

 

[longbrained]

I have just made a thread to broaden the horizon of the subject matter on this thread by opening up another thread discussing the other side of this argument: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/132443-shame-united-states-america.html