shall the burqa be banned??

[liontk]

From the poll I saw Pakistanis saying no...Maybe Western people dont know how it feels to have minimal rights and hence dont see what is wrong with taking certain rights away or controlling it!

I have a simple question for you as I am slightly curious, since you live in west as I believe from the way the discussion had been conducted. Have you served in armforces for your country and if so, let say we do a field ex and a soldier want to wear niqab, will it be discrimination if we dont allow them viel/niqab in the field or any Op. Do we have to accomodate even though it harms our capabilities.

 

[Dubious]

I have a simple question for you as I am slightly curious, since you live in west as I believe from the way the discussion had been conducted. Have you served in armforces for your country and if so, let say we do a field ex and a soldier want to wear niqab, will it be discrimination if we dont allow them viel/niqab in the field or any Op. Do we have to accomodate even though it harms our capabilities.

1) I doubt anyone going in the field will be wearing a niqab
2) here security reasons does arises esp when going for war and the opponent too dons a niqaab.... (hence the reply in post 2 fits in here)
3) we are not talking about army or war situation but a democratic society called the West

 

[liontk]

1) I doubt anyone going in the field will be wearing a niqab
2) here security reasons does arises esp when going for war and the opponent too dons a niqaab.... (hence the reply in post 2 fits in here)
3) we are not talking about army or war situation but a democratic society called the West

Well in your opinion since its democracy, it should be accomodation anywhere. I have many liberal friends and they talk about tolerance alot but there has to be a limit especially with vieled women as the society is simply not comfortable neither are people in light of recent terror attacks. Also let me tell you one thing, talking on internet is easy but losing your family members is another. If you are so concerned with human rights, try doing charity work like alot of candiens are for the minorities in pakistan or other middle eastern countries but until then stop telling us how to live and conduct our societies.

 

[Dubious]

Well in your opinion since its democracy, it should be accomodation anywhere. I have many liberal friends and they talk about tolerance alot but there has to be a limit especially with vieled women as the society is simply not comfortable neither are students in light if recent terror attacks. Also let me tell you one thing, talking on internet is easy but losing your family members is another. If you are so concerned with human rights, try doing charity work like alot of candiens are for the minorities in pakistan or other middle eastern countries but until then stop telling us how to live and conduct our societies.

You think? Muhammad cartoons when the artist refused to apologize under the name of freedom of speech...there were no limits
The Dannish PM refused to meet with 10 leaders of Muslim countries to denounce it! And that was for freedom of speech! and limits were thrown away now why the sudden interest in limits? You see how things come back to bite?

Everything has to be in moderation I agree...But I also agree it shouldnt start with Islam...

Well the only reason people move to the West is to be away from oppression and better std of living to live the freedom life...When that is equated to Arabs and Asians...why bother moving?

And how about the ever growing population of Muslims in Europe (3rd generation now) who are not comfortable with nude beaches or not comfortable with some other issue? Why are they not counted into this? Coz they are only 3rd generation migrants? How many generations has to pass before the we and them changes to us?

As for your societies...Well hello it was your very societies who got votes coz they advertised freedom! Now like the East they want to take away freedom after getting the votes? They have given gays rights but god forbid a woman gets the right to choose what to wear!



@liontk I dont feel the need to advertise my charity work I dont do it to show off nor to tell someone about it!

 

[liontk]

You think? Muhammad cartoons when the artist refused to apologize under the name of freedom of speech...there were no limits
The Dannish PM refused to meet with 10 leaders of Muslim countries to denounce it! And that was for freedom of speech! and limits were thrown away now why the sudden interest in limits? You see how things come back to bite?

Everything has to be in moderation I agree...But I also agree it shouldnt start with Islam...

Well the only reason people move to the West is to be away from oppression and better std of living to live the freedom life...When that is equated to Arabs and Asians...why bother moving?

And how about the ever growing population of Muslims in Europe (3rd generation now) who are not comfortable with nude beaches or not comfortable with some other issue? Why are they not counted into this? Coz they are only 3rd generation migrants? How many generations has to pass before the we and them changes to us?

As for your societies...Well hello it was your very societies who got votes coz they advertised freedom! Now like the East they want to take away freedom after getting the votes? They have given gays rights but god forbid a woman gets the right to choose what to wear!



@liontk I dont feel the need to advertise my charity work I dont do it to show off nor to tell someone about it!

What do you mean your society?
Well I am sad that you see yourself as a foreigner despite living in west. If those third generation dont want to integrate and want to wage jihad in syria, there is nothing we can do against "traitors" of highest order. Like I said show me the result and west will follow your lead but you see there is no enlightment anywhere for us to follow.

 

[Dubious]

What do you mean your society?
Well I am sad that you see yourself as a foreigner despite living in west. If those third generation dont want to integrate and want to wage jihad in syria, there is nothing we can do against "traitors" of highest order. Like I said show me the result and west will follow your lead but you see there is no enlightment anywhere for us to follow.

I dont but I was labelled as such by our Romanian friend...

And the 3rd generation want to be Westerners by nationality but it shouldnt compromise their faith what about those who convert? Why should they have to choose between their nationality and their new choice?

What sort of enlightenment was followed for democracy? it came as trial an error rule...And we see the results....

 

[liontk]

I dont but I was labelled as such by our Romanian friend...

And the 3rd generation want to be Westerners by nationality but it shouldnt compromise their faith what about those who convert? Why should they have to choose between their nationality and their new choice?

What sort of enlightenment was followed for democracy? it came as trial an error rule...And we see the results....

Ah yes using the nationality for conveniance, I would have believed your point but like I said the recent events in syria has shown us the results of western tolerance and burqa is just another mile stone, no thanks we are happy! Also the amount of muslims serving in nato armforces is abysmal aside from canadien and americanne muslims, this simply reinforces my point about lack of integration

 

[livingdead]

@liontk very few muslims wear this, and real reason of lack of integration is because first generation of immigrant have lived completely different cultural life.
From second generation onwards, its racism that instills fear in minds of immigrants. That causes ghettos, and isolation. Burqa is not the main contributor to aleanation.

 

[liontk]

@liontk very few muslims wear this, and real reason of lack of integration is because first generation of immigrant have lived completely different cultural life.
From second generation onwards, its racism that instills fear in minds of immigrants. That causes ghettos, and isolation. Burqa is not the main contributor to aleanation.

Mon ami, I am going to take a break from this discussion as I really was pissed at people that were directing all the blame on west and its not all our fault and I am a muslim too. At this point, I am quite disturbed from the thread about a family being burned to death in pakistan and people cheering. I think we should all focus on that thread instead of arguing over these petty issues.

 

[Dubious]

recent events in syria has shown us the results of western tolerance

??

First Saudi then Pakistan and then Syria...what next? For the sake of your argument you want to be compared to Arabia and Asia?

Isnt west what East is not? or are you saying that East is better hence we should compare and learn from it?

directing all the blame on west

blame? so West did nothing? Just ban burqa....Learn to call a spade a spade!

 

[livingdead]

Mon ami, I am going to take a break from this discussion as I really was pissed at people that were directing all the blame on west and its not all our fault and I am a muslim too. At this point, I am quite disturbed from the thread about a family being burned to death in pakistan and people cheering. I think we should all focus on that thread instead of arguing over these petty issues.

well, you cant compare issues like that... do you think gangs in inner city london is a 'minor' issue just because violence is nothing like syria.
We live in west, among the issues we face individual liberty is a massive issue. Privacy is another. Dont tell me just because an african does not have enough drinking water, I need not bother about lack of affordable housing in london.
This is definitely not a petty issue, otherwise govts wont be bringing new laws. dont you think?

 

[liontk]

??

First Saudi then Pakistan and then Syria...what next? For the sake of your argument you want to be compared to Arabia and Asia?

Isnt west what East is not? or are you saying that East is better hence we should compare and learn from it?


blame? so West did nothing? Just ban burqa....Learn to call a spade a spade!

I am done with this discussion and lets agree to disagree. I consider you a good pdf friend and I do not think this discussion is worth it to ruin that. Aside from this issue, I enjoy your posts and so if I did offend you at any point, once again I did not intend it to do so. Since you made alittle mad, I might post a biryani with rice Sautee with chutney to make you crazy hungry muahahahhaa

 

[Dubious]

I am done with this discussion and lets agree to disagree. I consider you a good pdf friend and I do not think this discussion is worth it to ruin that. Aside from this issue, I enjoy your posts and so if I did offend you at any point, once again I did not intend it to do so. Since you made alittle mad, I might post a biryani with rice Sautee with chutney to make you crazy hungry muahahahhaa

I dont get tempted by food much

but sure by all means!

 

[Jayhawk]

If Muslim minorities living in a country that wants to ban Burqa then really, Muslims are shit out of luck. They will just have to choose if they want to live their way or move to a Muslim country. I think thats fair. As for a Muslim women, it should be totally upto them to choose to wear the Burqa or not.

 

[flamer84]

yea sure he has right to speak of his mind but this topic is about burqa and its not about comparison of Europe with Afghanistan or KSA. He is speaking like if he is the representative of all Europe and champion of human rights

I am speaking like it's a debate and like it or not,mine is the dominant mindset in Europe.

Don't abuse the Romanians like this - The people of Romania are fine people who are misrepresented by the media !

Learn to disagree with respect !

@flamer84 - I apologize for this disparaging comment about Romanians by my compatriot !

Why should you apologise if you didn't state them ? In my beginnings on PDF i would be tempted to generalise to,know it that poster has a problem with Romania because of my comments it's up to him.I'm done gunning for millions just because someone has a problem on a forum.

I will express my opinion how i see fit,i thought it was a civilised one.The mods could argue with me on that.