Shahed-136 - Tracking usage & expanding understanding.

[Hack-Hook]

Knowing the Chinese, they will deploy them on very large trailers, with maybe 12 units per truck capacity depending on the dimensions

My guess is that they will probably launch several hundred of them in each round

 

[LegionnairE]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1705992442472796657

• Cruise missiles
• Air defense systems
• Radars (AESA, PESA, OTH, etc)
• IR/optics technology
• Small displacement Submarines
• ATGM and PGM
• Small arms
• Speedboats

Iran is top 5 in the world in all these categories

Small displacement submarines? apart from Ghadir and Fateh, nothing. Small arms? I think Turkey is shit at small arms, Iran is even worse.

Try to get your hands on a pistol like this, coming from a small country like Croatia, puts both our countries at shame

I guess we could discuss Fateh, I haven't heard from that sub in ages, I'm guessing that problems with it haven't been solved yet, but it's the wrong size for Iran's needs anyway.

 

[TheImmortal]

Small displacement submarines? apart from Ghadir, nothing.

Ghadir and Fateh

Iran has one of the largest submarine fleets in the world. The main purpose is to defend the PG and Arabian Sea, both areas of shallow depth for heavy subs.

Besat and larger subs are coming, but their utility is limited to blue waters and mostly deterrence.

Small arms? I think Turkey is shit at small arms, Iran is even worse.

I’m not sure if you are joking or just misinformed. “Small arms” refers to the caliber of the bullet not the size of the gun. Hence the military term “small arms fire”

Iran builds various submachine guns, rifles, and sniper rifles. Iran has reverse engineered some of the best optics in the world for rifles and sniper rifles. All these have been seen in action in various proxy wars (Iraq, Palestine, Syria, Yemen, etc)

 

[LegionnairE]

Ghadir and Fateh

Yeah, I corrected myself but I was too late, But Fateh is a weird case, why weren't more of it built is a mystery but it points to a structural problem.

I think it's the wrong size for Iran's needs anyway, I think iran needs something around 1.000 tons. Smaller than Kilo but definitely bigger than Fateh. It needs to be able to patrol the arabian sea while remaining submerged.

And critically, Iran doesn't have AIP technology which is a huge issue.

I’m not sure if you are joking or just misinformed. “Small arms” refers to the caliber of the bullet not the size of the gun. Hence the military term “small arms fire”

Iran builds various submachine guns, rifles, and sniper rifles. Iran has reverse engineered some of the best optics in the world for rifles and sniper rifles. All these have been seen in action in various proxy wars (Iraq, Palestine, Syria, Yemen, etc)

Yes, I'm fully aware, I gave the pistol as an example.


Reverse engineering the stuff others make doesn't make you top 5 in the world, there's nothing original and it's doubtful if you can make the same quality.

 

[LegionnairE]

@Deino

Nevermind, it appears that they give all of their trainers "7-" prefix it's completely normal.

 

[TheImmortal]

Yeah, I corrected myself but I was too late,

You continuously talk about areas you simply don’t know much about. No offense.

But Fateh is a weird case, why weren't more of it built is a mystery but it points to a structural problem.

Again more incorrect analysis. Fateh is a new project there are 3 being built with 1 in service already.

Building submarines takes time especially on a restrained military budget.

I think it's the wrong size for Iran's needs anyway,

Based on what? your extensive experience in naval warfare?

Fateh is a sub made for PG/the opening of the Arabian sea. It’s an area denial weapon. It’s a perfect weapon as it’s a quiet diesel submarine that can lay mines and fire stand off anti ship missiles at battle fleets.

I think iran needs something around 1.000 tons..

Yeah it’s called the Besat project. Look it up. Will be 1300 tons. There are two types of subs Iran builds, ones for defense of PG and the opening area and ones for blue water.

Blue water has lower priority at the moment as that’s mostly a power projection tool. It makes sense to build blue water submarines when you have a blue water fleet of ships. Iran has just started building (in last couple years) its first destroyer class vessel.

Smaller than Kilo but definitely bigger than

Kilo is 1,000 tons and Fateh is ~600 tons fully loaded and submerged.

There is no marginal benefit to a sub between these two displacements. Your commentary is all over the place like usual.

It needs to be able to patrol the arabian sea while remaining submerged.

These submarines don’t “patrol”. They are warfare submarines. They are deployed to prevent conflict or engage enemy warships and lay mines in case of war.

Nonetheless Fateh can “patrol” Arabian for up to month. Which would mostly be training and intelligence gathering purposes as there is no point in a submarine patrolling these waters at the current moment.

And critically, Iran doesn't have AIP technology which is a huge issue.

No it is not. Fateh submarines can stay at sea for 35 days. That is plenty of time to inflict damage in case of conflict with US. Iranian coastline is littered with coves and inlets. Iran also has underwater sub bases. So refueling and hiding advantage goes to Iran.

Reverse engineering the stuff others make doesn't make you top 5 in the world, there's nothing original and it's doubtful if you can make the same quality.

Clearly you are not informed. If we are talking about small arms. You don’t make “new” rifles as the number of new rifle designs that get widely adopted around the world is few and far between. It is unlikely you will invent something better than what already exists. Most of the world still uses derivatives of AK-47 for a reason.

So you improve the cost, reliability, performance, and optics of already said successful designs instead of reinventing the wheel.

 

[Mehdipersian]

New motor

 

[LegionnairE]

You continuously talk about areas you simply don’t know much about. No offense.

First of all, I don't appreciate your tone when talking to me. I will not disclose any personal information but I know enough.

Kilo is 1,000 tons and Fateh is ~600 tons fully loaded and submerged.

No, Kilos are almost twice the size of Turkish Type 209s which are 1200-1400 tons Kilos are much bigger and made for big ocean patrols.


You disappoint me.

No it is not. Fateh submarines can stay at sea for 35 days.

It has to surface many times in 35 days making it easy to track and destroy. Especially in an environment where the enemy has air supremacy

in a real wartime scenario if Fateh could last 1 day in the Arabian sea, I would be impressed. Ghadir probably couldn't even make it through the strait.

 

[LegionnairE]

Clearly you are not informed. If we are talking about small arms. You don’t make “new” rifles as the number of new rifle designs that get widely adopted around the world is few and far between. It is unlikely you will invent something better than what already exists. Most of the world still uses derivatives of AK-47 for a reason.

You're clearly not aware of the American XM-7. That's what it looks like to be on the cutting edge of small arms development.


When Iran can make something like that we can talk about leading the world or being in the top 5 or something. Until then please stfu about this subject, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Messerschmitt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1706734703380930946

 

[TheImmortal]

I will not disclose any personal information but I know enough.

Come on stop the nonsense. You don’t have any “personal information” worth sharing that would give you insight on the Iranian military arms programs. You continuously make false degrading claims about Iran’s military program.

No, Kilos are almost twice the size of Turkish Type 209s which are 1200-1400 tons Kilos are much bigger and made for big ocean patrols.

You are correct here. I told you we have Besat being built between 1,000-3,000 tons. You didn’t know this.

You didn’t even know the amount of Fateh being built (4). You clearly are not informed on the Iranian military. Not sure why you continue making claims about the military as your “expertise” lies in Turkish weaponary.

It has to surface many times in 35 days making it easy to track and destroy.

I gave you endurance length provided by Iran. Can you provide any proof for your claim?

in a real wartime scenario if Fateh could last 1 day in the Arabian sea, I would be impressed.

More outlandish claims with zero credible evidence.

Ghadir probably couldn't even make it through the strait.

Ghadir is meant for the PG shallow waters. What don’t you understand about this concept of a shallow water silent submarine.

 

[TheImmortal]

You're clearly not aware of the American XM-7. That's what it looks like to be on the cutting edge of small arms development.

I am aware. XM-7 is a recent development after 65 years of using M4/M16/AR15 derivatives. So my point remains true, major rifles changes don’t happen frequently.

Jury is out on XM-7 since it is now just entering the armed forces. Using completely new ammo (6.8 mm) is a lot more logistical headache than you think.

Iran has yet to get is hands on one, but it will in due time since even civilian semi automatic versions are coming to market.

When Iran can make something like that we can talk about leading the world or being in the top 5 or something

It doesn’t mean Iran cannot build something like XM-7 or an exoskeleton using Liquid Metal and electricity or any other “soldier of the future”. Iran doesn’t have an $800-900B military budget to build anything it wants like US. And it took the US army decades to change their rifle even with such a budget.

And my top 5 claim was in regards to production of various small arms weaponry to sniper rifles to grenade launchers to ATGM. We are top 5 in production in many areas.

To you it means you can only be Top 5 if you can produce something like XM-7. So I will tell you this, if Iran can build various ATGMs including Israeli Spike, if it can builde .50 cal sniper rifles, if it can build their own assault rifle design (which Iran did) then they can build XM-7 which is based off another rifle.

The question is do you have the budget to equip large amount of soldiers and produce the unique ammo (6.8mm) for only one specific rifle and is it a priority.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Kilo is 1,000 tons and Fateh is ~600 tons fully loaded and submerged.

A prjct 877 is 2325 ton surfaced and 3075 ton submerged

 

[Messerschmitt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1706794330659168561

 

[LegionnairE]

I gave you endurance length provided by Iran. Can you provide any proof for your claim?

Yes, basic physics.

A prjct 877 is 2325 ton surfaced and 3075 ton submerged

This is over twice the size of a Type 209. These ships are made for oceans and they aren't really fit for Iran's needs. Even Turkey isn't planning anything this big. Reis class will be around 2.000 tons.

He's embarrassing himself, it's quite sad.