Selex ES radar & other technology on JF-17?

[Hellfire]

Currently the focus as far as strike should be to utilize stand off munitions to blast targets within 500 - 1000km of the border. That means that PAF needs to increase the range of Ra'ad to 500km and enable its firing from F-16, JF-17 and FC-31.

There is a limitation to this theory. Any missile launch by either side has the risk of panic nonconventional escalation. So this option is basically a non-starter. @MastanKhan is right .... dependence will still remain on deep penetration strikes for either countries, the main determinant being the declared first use policy of Pakistan. If somehow Pakistan was to declare a no first use policy, your contention above may hold true.

we will never have a Russian heavy fighter jet in inventory . forget them

Very true

 

[Mentee]

I posted these some time back in JF-17 main thread for the same argument ....

JF-17 blk-1 have 90 min on station time (& I believe on station time is same for blk-2 as well), therefore I don't think the argument of JF-17 being a short leg Jet is valid especially in the Indo-Pak geographical contexts.

only 90 min...........
@MastanKhan sir, you were right, we are doomed-----------

 

[_NOBODY_]

don't know Russians will alow us to go as far as to integrate Chinese based anti ship missiles to hunt Indian navy............ to sabotage the deal, India will sure cross every possible limit............
Both Su35 and Mig35 older versions Su30 and Mig29 are operated by IAF.............. Indians are very familiar with it..........
Su30, after Super Sukhoi will be as good as Su35 is now............ also they are getting Mig29K which is on per of Mig35 with AESA as exception............... so unlike popular belief............. both Mig35 and Su35 despite being formidable aircraft will not be able to find its way in PAF.............We cannot get Chinese flanker either.

Chinese might be able to convince Russians to sell MIG-35s to us. If you are saying that we shouldn't buy it because indians are familiar with this technology then you are so wrong, we need 4++ generation interceptors and MIG-35 is good and cheaper as compare to other 4++ generation fighters plus it uses the engine of the same family of the one which is being used on JF-17. It will also help us understand the technology of the Russian Fighters which are being used in IAF.

 

[Hellfire]

1. The only advantage (and thats a big one) IAF has with long range fighters is that, they can place them deep inside India. Coupled with their natural geography, it will place their aircrafts well away from PAF strikes.

2. Other then that it will not be circling around Pakistan for 5 hours. It will drop its bombs, whatever its mission is and leave as early as possible, without waiting for challenge. When its on Air Superiority mission, it will surely wait for some A vs B engagement.


3. Pilots are human first. They have their physical limits. In situation of war, can you imagine, how much stress is there on pilot? Even after 1 hour mission, he will be physically and mentally challenged to the limits. Here you have 2 pilots. After 5 hours mission, can they fly again for other 24 hours?

Sorry to butt in in this very informative and educational exchange. Great posts by members and very well analyzed topic. Quoting you by making points, please bear with me:

Point 1: You are absolutely right regarding the flexibility available to IAF by the range of aircrafts. However, if you look at the open sourced current deployment pattern of IAF, you will see a relatively close proximity deployment of IAF rather contrary to deep deployment. The rationale for this is the deployment of Swordfish LRTRs with upgraded ranges (a figure of 1500+ kms is being circulated). This along with other assets and space based satellites enable a 24 x 7 surveillance of Pakistani airspace and assets. With passage of time, the capability to monitor will further strengthen. As of today, there is confidence in IAF of being able to track an aircraft the moment it lifts off a Pakistani airfield. Something, which the range of new LRTRs along with the constellation of satellites put by India may be indicative of.

Point 2: The aim of IAF in any future war will be to achieve air superiority in 24-48 hours (just for argument's sake accept it) and then go for air domination immediately in order to facilitate land operations and deny PN access to ocean. So your contention may just not hold

Point 3: There is a ratio of approximately 3 to 1 in terms of pilots to aircraft. The physical aspects do not hold merit in your contention here.

Thanks

 

[MastanKhan]

only 90 min...........
@MastanKhan sir, you were right, we are doomed-----------

HI,

I am looking at the worst case scenario---. So---I think it is around 45 minutes to an hour---with air to air refuelling--the number will go much higher.

But look at it this way---Gripen NG---is touted at 1340 km combat radius---with internal and storage tanks---and that aircraft has a much more fuel efficient engine.

Instead of large refuellers---paf need heavies that can double as buddy refuellers---the heavies can defend themselves better---better jamming capabilities and counter measures.

In current and future environment H-6K and even JH-7s will be sitting ducks against Indian LR-SAMS and IAF will be able send large number of MKIs / Rafaels armed with long-range BVRs like meteor & K-100 supported by MIG-29s / M-2Ks etc.

Hi,

The purpose of the long range naval strike aircraft is to take the pressure off the battle over the land----. To counter the naval strike aircraft---the opponent would have to move more aircraft around to protect very important assets on the coastline.

Now as for the LRsams taking out the H6 or the JH7B---that would happen---but the sams would also be taken out in large numbers----it is a two way street.

 

[sathya]

only 90 min...........
@MastanKhan sir, you were right, we are doomed-----------

90 mins is a very good time .

I think tejas can loiter around 40 mins with only internal fuel .. Not sure.

 

[Mentee]

Instead of large refuellers---paf need heavies that can double as buddy refuellers---the heavies can defend themselves better---better jamming capabilities and counter measures.

sir for how long you will keep parroting this statement.

hm bhikari hain hamara budget hamary d.h.a's ijazat nae dayty to get some dam* double engine jets bangla daish sy b gy guzray hain but our pilots are the best of the best, we'll give the enemy a bloody nose, tactical nucs
the policy makers in P.a.f have been giving this Nation a lollypop for years----

90 mins is a very good time .

I think tejas can loiter around 40 mins with only internal fuel .. Not sure.

L krna hain yar is loiter time sy-----

 

[Basel]

HI,

I am looking at the worst case scenario---. So---I think it is around 45 minutes to an hour---with air to air refuelling--the number will go much higher.

But look at it this way---Gripen NG---is touted at 1340 km combat radius---with internal and storage tanks---and that aircraft has a much more fuel efficient engine.

Instead of large refuellers---paf need heavies that can double as buddy refuellers---the heavies can defend themselves better---better jamming capabilities and counter measures.




Hi,

The purpose of the long range naval strike aircraft is to take the pressure off the battle over the land----. To counter the naval strike aircraft---the opponent would have to move more aircraft around to protect very important assets on the coastline.

Now as for the LRsams taking out the H6 or the JH7B---that would happen---but the sams would also be taken out in large numbers----it is a two way street.

Check out the range of Meteor & K-100 BVRs and what they can do to unprotected birds like H-6K and JH-7s. There is a reason PN & PAF personals are totally against those obsolete birds.

 

[Mentee]

Check out the range of Meteor & K-100 BVRs and what they can do to unprotected birds like H-6K and JH-7s. There is a reason PN & PAF personals are totally against those obsolete birds.

then we should stop flying any jet, even f35 can get itself hit -----

 

[Basel]

then we should stop flying any jet, even f35 can get itself hit -----

Spending limited resources on obsolete systems is stupidity, if you talk about long range fighters like Su-35, J-11 or higher, EFT, F-15s modern ones, F-18s, Rafaels, then yes they can handle the job well but not H-6K and JH-7s.

 

[Mentee]

Spending limited resources on obsolete systems is stupidity, if you talk about long range fighters like Su-35, J-11 or higher, EFT, F-15s modern ones, F-18s, Rafaels, then yes they can handle the job well but not H-6K and JH-7s.

are those aforementioned jets available? if yes then voila but, if no then what is the way forward? and by the way have you read about jh7b? its a beast--------

 

[MastanKhan]

sir for how long you will keep parroting this statement.

hm bhikari hain hamara budget hamary d.h.a's ijazat nae dayty to get some dam* double engine jets bangla daish sy b gy guzray hain but our pilots are the best of the best, we'll give the enemy a bloody nose, tactical nucs
the policy makers in P.a.f have been giving this Nation a lollypop for years----



L krna hain yar is loiter time sy-----

Hi,

If you were a 20 years old indian---I would not reply to you---but as a 20 years old pakistan---it is for me to share---and for you to learn---.

Pakistanis have to change their mindset from giving the enemy " a bloody nose "----it does not work right that way. You have to change your mindset to " we will smash their important assets that they will hurt bad " and will feel the real pain.

A bloody nose only infuriates the enemy further---. And I don't blame you for this kind of thinking---because that is what you have heard from your elders and leaders.

Your pilots were best when their aircraft were the best---the enemy's pilots are NO GOOFBALLZ either---they are extremely superior pilots in equally superior machines but in a higher number.

The money issue is a drama----I guess you missed the news---the paf wants to spend 1.5 billion dollars on 8 F16's---which equals to at least 30 J10C's---30 J16's--around 40 JH7B's----and all the chinese aircraft will be equipped with the frontline aesa radar and all the frontline tier 1 chinese goodies---and you can also shop for the selex and south african goodies for them as well.

In the 5 years time period---the fire control radars and other electronics can be modified and upgraded to make them more potent.

The issue is not of lack of funds----it is the mindset. We used to have full fledged bomber sqdrn in the past---and as the F16's started coming in---the fighter mafia took charge of the air force and completely wiped out the bombers from the air force---.

Even though the current F16 and the JF17's can carry more load than those old bombers---but then current day heavy strike aircraft carry 3 to 5 times that load of the old bombers----.

It is a simple military fact---if you are fighting a larger army---you ought to have dedicated heavy fighting force to take the blunt of the enemy strike---.

And for as for " parroting "----that term does not suit you---you are too young to address me in that manner---and even if we were in the same age group----these kinds of terms look cheap---and they also show that the opponent has gone thru your armor---.

And I will keep writing it either they get them or I CONK OUT---.

 

[Basel]

are those aforementioned jets available? if yes then voila but, if no then what is the way forward? and by the way have you read about jh7b? its a beast--------

Get one thing clear man, PN and PAF will not induct, what they called "Obsolete" systems with limited resources available. PN want J-11 class jet if not available then customized JFT is back up plan but no JH-7 or H-6K.

 

[Mentee]

Hi,

If you were a 20 years old indian---I would not reply to you---but as a 20 years old pakistan---it is for me to share---and for you to learn---.

Pakistanis have to change their mindset from giving the enemy " a bloody nose "----it does not work right that way. You have to change your mindset to " we will smash their important assets that they will hurt bad " and will feel the real pain.

A bloody nose only infuriates the enemy further---. And I don't blame you for this kind of thinking---because that is what you have heard from your elders and leaders.

Your pilots were best when their aircraft were the best---the enemy's pilots are NO GOOFBALLZ either---they are extremely superior pilots in equally superior machines but in a higher number.

The money issue is a drama----I guess you missed the news---the paf wants to spend 1.5 billion dollars on 8 F16's---which equals to at least 30 J10C's---30 J16's--around 40 JH7B's----and all the chinese aircraft will be equipped with the frontline aesa radar and all the frontline tier 1 chinese goodies---and you can also shop for the selex and south african goodies for them as well.

In the 5 years time period---the fire control radars and other electronics can be modified and upgraded to make them more potent.

The issue is not of lack of funds----it is the mindset. We used to have full fledged bomber sqdrn in the past---and as the F16's started coming in---the fighter mafia took charge of the air force and completely wiped out the bombers from the air force---.

Even though the current F16 and the JF17's can carry more load than those old bombers---but then current day heavy strike aircraft carry 3 to 5 times that load of the old bombers----.

It is a simple military fact---if you are fighting a larger army---you ought to have dedicated heavy fighting force to take the blunt of the enemy strike---.

And for as for " parroting "----that term does not suit you---you are too young to address me in that manner---and even if we were in the same age group----these kinds of terms look cheap---and they also show that the opponent has gone thru your armor---.

And I will keep writing it either they get them or I CONK OUT---.

Sir i apologize for chosing a wrong word---, i didn't mean that---- may ALLAH SWT BLESS thee

 

[Paksanity]

So.....what happened to thread topic? SELEX ES if anyone remembers? We are back to our imaginary obsessions with different aircraft and PAF bashing aren't we?