Selex ES radar & other technology on JF-17?

[CHI RULES]

Hi,

You are supposedly ex paf----correct me if I am wrong---. And if you think that way---off course the nations military is fckd up----.

So let me explain it for the 20 th time----how the deal should have been structured---.

5 billion dollar deal---delivery of first starts in 1 and 1 / 2 years and the 8 th after 11 to 12 years-----so basically---the 4th will be delivered around 5 to 6 years from now and the rest would take another 5 to 6 additional years.

The deal could have easily been split in half to buy 4 subs and add more funds to the deal after 5 years----to go for the rest.

For the other 2.5 billion----you could get 2 054's 2 F22's---2 sqdrns of JH7B---.

And this would have strengthened the naval fleet in parallel within the same 5 years time frame---.

Sir----knowing you and other military officers, generals and air force personal of pakistan military---I can speak with guarantee that you guys are absolute thoughtless and brainless in how to procure heavy weapons systems---.

All you guys can fall back is that " i would die for my country " and the people go gaga---and as they are equally illiterate in the matters of defense procurement---they start waving the flag.

So---as I stated in the other post----screw the 2nd strike---your brethrens have fckd up the deal so bad---that there would be no chance of survival from the first strike in the first place.

With due respect I have different opinion 1st a retired person after few even can't give correct op abt his own field then how he may give expert op abt others. Secondly decision makers at this point are not fools.
The main reason for acquiring F16s is to tackle high end enemy fighter jets, for defensive roles only. Meanwhile JF17 is the work horse of the AF to counter Medium tech fighters. Secondly please inform me how the hell is F16V less than SU30,35 or other fighters.

The JH7b is useless for PN as Pak needs true multi role fighter jet in this class u may have to strive hard to get SU35 or any J11 variant. It can be done with effective diplomacy.

The deal of latest F16s was delayed/blocked by Indian lobby as they feel threat from F16s. Now in few years time if PAF is able to equip JF17s with latest tech like AESA, IRST and capable EW suit I can bet that USA will also open it's doors. Then PAF may get any version of F16s as they like. The only reason is to keep Pak away from latest tech for the time being.

 

[MastanKhan]

Secondly one of the member in previous pages have already stated that Chinese r businessmen and in order to get the best product out of them we should have a better alternative, the recent example of that is the Mbt 3000 testing last yr and how chinese were reluctant to sell their top of line tanks like t99s etc but ever since pakistan announced and ''leaked'' the photos of t84s being tested here, they came up with t99s and now we r getting 300 of them (either t98/t99s)

Now even if u r going for another chinese then jh7b is pathetically old platform and would have to retired soon since it would have to face the likes of rafael, su30s, PAK FA, upgraded Mig29s (even in naval roles) and so on. So in my POV its best to milk chinese with turkish program, intimidate them or in yr language ''seduce them'' and im sure they will agree to offer J20 which was the actual project we were interested in from chinese rather then j31. Using the money on jh7b or 8 f16s as of now is futile and short sighted. Focus those funds on JFT project or solely on 5th gen program no matter how much jh7b is economical or 8f16s r good. Yr advocating that we use 1 billion on jh7b and 500 million on jft but im saying use all on jft or just save them for 5th gen.

Its very important to first locate yr opponent's weaknesses and exploit them to yr advantage, even if u r hell bend in putting all yr hopes in one partner then that should be in our terms and choice to extract the best out of him.

Thats the simple diplomatic and marketing strategy.

Hi,

" To milk a friend---" that is absolutely pathetic and disgusting----. How so crass and cheap---.

They call us iron brother and you want to milk the friendship---.

From where do you kids learn these disgusting thoughts----does nobody eve teach you kids of character and character building---is it always thieving and stealing?

MK, you have the right to your opinion, no matter how childish or uncouth language that you use.
Which Ex Arm I am, or if I am serving, really doesn't matter.

I am privy to the details of the deal, so I will not comment. I think the competent officers of the PN are better equipped to assess their short term and long term requirements. Your analysis should be given credence over PN? There is a lot more to war than video games. Civilians will always have disdain or difference of opinion. Now some even become "analysts" and start telling the military how to do their job. To that I say, there is enough for you you to do, and do excellently, before trying to lend us a hand.

The 08 SSK deal and other decisions of PN are sound investments to defence the SLOC (sea lines of communications) of Pakistan. With time, you may appreciate what i say, or you may not. Only a strong sub-arm can allow interdicting an overt / offensive cvgn force. We don't expect you to understand.

However, this was a JF17 specific thread, discussing technology for JF17. Some of us were happy analysing that to its merit. I don't know why it is being diverted to naval issues. Kindly start a new thread, and we can continue discussing this there.

Sir,

I understand very well ----. I the military had done its job---there would be no issues----. An air force that has not procured tier one aircraft in the last fifteen years even after going thru sanctions for 10 + years.

But indeed this thread is re selex products and it should shift back----but pretty much all had been discussed about the issue and not much left----.

@Umair Nawaz , The JH-7B is not an old platform, the original Jh-7 was inducted in 1992. You could argue that it is not future oriented (i.e. 4+ gen or 5th Gen and you would be correct, but there are many aspects of it that make sense it very relevant in PAFs current set up, but I think we need to address some misunderstandings with respect to what aircraft PAF can and should get.

1. F-16: The F-16 is a great, tried, and true platform which the PAF knows well and has the set up to maintain which is why they are so obsessed with it. As we see the Afghan theater winding down you now see the US congress playing back to 1990s when they were vitriolically against Pakistan. Even one member saying he doesnt want to give PAF the more F-16s because they "use it to bomb their own people" which is exactly what the US wanted Pakistan to do to fight internal militants. They will come up with any stupid excuse not to give you the F-16 or the revoke/inhibit your ability to operate it in the future which is probably why PAF spent as much on spares as it did (stock piling). Currently F-16s role is limited when it comes to strike in the sense that it can attack targets where the PAF has air superiority very well, but should it need stand off weapons, you have none except HARM. PAF F-16s are not cleared to fire the Harpoon in anti-shipping roles and PAF doesnt have JSOW or JASSM (although in 2006 JSOW was rumored but never confirmed). Additionally PAF needs to get the US clearance for EACH MISSION their F-16s undertake. Their are safeties in place to prevent the PAF from using them in any way they feel, which is a very dangerous prospect if you expect to defend your country from India (who is a closer ally to US now than Pakistan is).

2. J-11/J-16: There has been much talk about the China selling these to PAF if all else fails...that is NOT gonna happen. The Chinese still to some extent rely on Russian tech and still are learning aspects of aerospace engineering from Russia and are NOT going to sell these to Pakistan against Russia's will.

3. Su-35/34: These are POSSIBLE, but are expensive (though not as much as western options). There have been talks on the subject of acquiring these BUT nothing is confirmed. Should they be available then obviously they represent the best possible solution to the strike fighter problem that PAF has (even if many dont understand their is more to an Air force's need than fighters). However you may be forced to acquire Russian weapons only. That being said, IF they are available they are the best option.

4. FC-31: While it will be a great option, that option is not currently on the cards and wont be available for induction until 6-8yrs at the earliest. Additionally, it is a medium weight fighter which could carry out specific strike roles when need is to penetrate air defenses, but it is not a fighter that is going to take out large swaths of enemy territory the way Su-35 or JH-7B could. It simply doesnt carry enough internally to be useful in major strike situations. What it IS going to be better for is SEAD where it can penetrate enemy radar networks and take defenses out. In a deep strike or naval role it will have limited role due to limited legs. It will however be a great fighter to protect air over pakistan and provide protection to strike packages.

5. Turkish TAI TFX Project: Not as far along as FC-31, actually not even on the drawing board yet, just in conceptual design (still selecting between 3 designs). Additionally will carry a lot of US and European components. That puts you in the same boat regarding spares. Without British engines (EJ-200 Derivative) it wont fly and those could be embargoed to Pakistan at the drop of a hat. Now being that it is a derivative of EJ-200 could Turkey make them entirely in house and have the option to sell them despite British objections, theoretically but that is unlikely and these are still not planned for induction until 2025

In short, Get the Su-35 now if possible, JH-7B if not, and FC-31 in future to supplant F-16. That does put too much trust in China but unless Russia willing to deliver, there is not much option right now.

Hi,

Kids think that only the shiny and glittery toys can do the job----.

The JH7 is based on the F111 aardvark minus the swing wings---. In its current configuration in the JH7B format it is an extremely potent and deadly strike aircraft.

The nice thing abut it is that it can use all the weapons that we have in our arsenal and we do not need to go get something specific for another make---.

For paf---the heavy strike options are very limited---. Basically there is nothing available other than this aircraft.

 

[Tank131]

The main reason for acquiring F16s is to tackle high end enemy fighter jets, for defensive roles only. Meanwhile JF17 is the work horse of the AF to counter Medium tech fighters. Secondly please inform me how the hell is F16V less than SU30,35 or other fighters.

The JH7b is useless for PN as Pak needs true multi role fighter jet in this class u may have to strive hard to get SU35 or any J11 variant. It can be done with effective diplomacy.

The deal of latest F16s was delayed/blocked by Indian lobby as they feel threat from F16s. Now in few years time if PAF is able to equip JF17s with latest tech like AESA, IRST and capable EW suit I can bet that USA will also open it's doors. Then PAF may get any version of F16s as they like. The only reason is to keep Pak away from latest tech for the time being.

1. F-16s in place are likely the bulk of the F-16s u will see for a while. Do you really want to increase the percentage of you airforce that is dependent on whether the US needs you at this time or not? If so then you guys havent learned anything since 1990s. When you say that the Indian lobby is blocking the sale that should scare you... You are accepting that yiur enemy holds so much sway with your 2nd largest arms supplier (biggest of advanced tech) that they have held up your purchase. And yet you are willing to wait for more F-16? Sounds like a bad idea to me.

If i were in PAFs shoes id rather go and get the best electronics package i could for the JF-17 (Which if we all remember... This thread was originally about...so soon i hope we get back to it...) and make jf-17 better than the F-16s (at least electronically.

2. As for JH-7B not being useful to PN... Outside of Flankers, please tell me which multirole fighters PN can get which will do better than JH-7B in a strike role? Jf-17 doesnt have the legs or payload to do much against IN (can only carry 2 AShM missiles at a time). PAFs F-16s cant fire Harpoon. Rafale is already being bought by India. Typhoon too expensive. J-10 redundant with JF-17. Best option for PN air arm is Flanker. If theyare unavailable, 1sqn of JH-7B (Hopefully with radar and electronics similar or from J-16) Nd 1 sqn of JF-17 for support.

And please can we get off the idea that China would be allowed by Russia, to sell J-1 OR J-16. Its not gonna happen. Only flanker that could show up in Pakistan are those sold by Russia.

Now id kindly request all of us to get back to the topic at hand which was future packages for JF-17.

 

[MastanKhan]

With due respect I have different opinion 1st a retired person after few even can't give correct op abt his own field then how he may give expert op abt others. Secondly decision makers at this point are not fools.
The main reason for acquiring F16s is to tackle high end enemy fighter jets, for defensive roles only. Meanwhile JF17 is the work horse of the AF to counter Medium tech fighters. Secondly please inform me how the hell is F16V less than SU30,35 or other fighters.

The JH7b is useless for PN as Pak needs true multi role fighter jet in this class u may have to strive hard to get SU35 or any J11 variant. It can be done with effective diplomacy.

The deal of latest F16s was delayed/blocked by Indian lobby as they feel threat from F16s. Now in few years time if PAF is able to equip JF17s with latest tech like AESA, IRST and capable EW suit I can bet that USA will also open it's doors. Then PAF may get any version of F16s as they like. The only reason is to keep Pak away from latest tech for the time being.

Hi,

Every new person who wants to jump into the discussion needs to start from the begining. The reasoning for moving away from the F16 has been discussed extensively.

For those who are commenting that the leaders of t he naval force and air force have made the right decision---well that is based on your experience---.

Which basically does not mean much because it shows a lack of information---and towing the company line---.

Those like me on tank and a few other who are against it----we have dug deeper into the issue----we have worked harder on the issue and learnt more to enlighten the reader why it is wrong----you---those who agree have no learnt knowledge----because you can say---" the leader knows best " " we follow the leader "---and that is it.

Our information needs to be correct---it needs to be upto date---it needs to be authentic---for us---we have to discuss the merits and demerits convincingly and change the existing mindset---and to change the mindset of a Pakistani---that would indeed be a miracle---and specially against the Paf---you kids worship them after the true God----.

This world of the defense indurty has changed about 5 days ago---when the news got leaked about the israeli F16's and their Huron drones being hacked by the british and the americans----.

Now coming to selex----it has a great product---some of the south african weapons are a must have and paf should pursue them and if for some reason they get the J10C---they might as well get a selex package for that as well.

What do you think @Quwa ---- don't you think that a J10C with selex fire control radar and rest of the gadgetry would be close to the Blk 60---maybe an article on that as well.

1. F-16s in place are likely the bulk of the F-16s u will see for a while. Do you really want to increase the percentage of you airforce that is dependent on whether the US needs you at this time or not? If so then you guys havent learned anything since 1990s. When you say that the Indian lobby is blocking the sale that should scare you... You are accepting that yiur enemy holds so much sway with your 2nd largest arms supplier (biggest of advanced tech) that they have held up your purchase. And yet you are willing to wait for more F-16? Sounds like a bad idea to me.

Hi,

These kids are so thoughtless---they have no sense of reasoning----like if their brains have been sucked out.

The most damaging thing that the indians will do is to let this sale go into the purchase mode---then a few days before the delivery do a false flag attack on one of their bases and utter a large hue and cry---that 3 years waiting period would chop the paf at its legs.

That is why--- I am saying---any pakistani who wants to go for the new F16's---is not a sincere pakistani anymore---.

The are speaking in the language of the enemy of pakistan.

 

[Quwa]

Hi,

Every new person who wants to jump into the discussion needs to start from the begining. The reasoning for moving away from the F16 has been discussed extensively.

For those who are commenting that the leaders of t he naval force and air force have made the right decision---well that is based on your experience---.

Which basically does not mean much because it shows a lack of information---and towing the company line---.

Those like me on tank and a few other who are against it----we have dug deeper into the issue----we have worked harder on the issue and learnt more to enlighten the reader why it is wrong----you---those who agree have no learnt knowledge----because you can say---" the leader knows best " " we follow the leader "---and that is it.

Our information needs to be correct---it needs to be upto date---it needs to be authentic---for us---we have to discuss the merits and demerits convincingly and change the existing mindset---and to change the mindset of a Pakistani---that would indeed be a miracle---and specially against the Paf---you kids worship them after the true God----.

This world of the defense indurty has changed about 5 days ago---when the news got leaked about the israeli F16's and their Huron drones being hacked by the british and the americans----.

Now coming to selex----it has a great product---some of the south african weapons are a must have and paf should pursue them and if for some reason they get the J10C---they might as well get a selex package for that as well.

What do you think @Quwa ---- don't you think that a J10C with selex fire control radar and rest of the gadgetry would be close to the Blk 60---maybe an article on that as well.



Hi,

These kids are so thoughtless---they have no sense of reasoning----like if their brains have been sucked out.

The most damaging thing that the indians will do is to let this sale go into the purchase mode---then a few days before the delivery do a false flag attack on one of their bases and utter a large hue and cry---that 3 years waiting period would chop the paf at its legs.

That is why--- I am saying---any pakistani who wants to go for the new F16's---is not a sincere pakistani anymore---.

The are speaking in the language of the enemy of pakistan.

In regards to the J-10C. If PAF opts to acquire it, it'd be in very limited numbers to top-off the medium weight fighter force. I doubt it'll seek to heavily customize it, just acquire what it can off the shelf from China.

That said, I don't think that will happen. I think at this stage, the PAF will be looking ahead, i.e the FC-31. The next generation is the long-term bet as far as medium weight fighters are concerned.

At this stage, I honestly believe that all bets need to be on JF-17. Bring the mainstay and home-supported platform to a level where it is a credible threat against all likely enemy fighters. Besides that, prioritize the next generation, and if after that some money is left, save it for long-range SAMs or JSTARS-like aircraft.

But if a little money is still left, then top up the medium weight category with 2-3 squadrons of used non-upgraded F-16s, which in turn would just be stopgaps until FC-31. Buying surplus F-16s as is would cost practically nothing.

 

[Tank131]

@Quwa...oh...you had me until the F-16s!

I think the way forward is for PAF is honestly how this thread started...a top notch avionics package for the JF-17 based roughly on the Gripen NG. That being said, I dont think J-10C will have any type of role in PAF given the fact that it is fairly redundant with the JF-17 in terms of capabilities. It doesnt represent a quantum leap in terms of a2a over a JF-17 equiped with gripen like electronics, nor is it far superior in strike.

Definately go for the FC-31 and use it to replace F-16s going forward from 2020s onward. And we have already discussed my opinion on strike aircraft (Su>JH-7B>other options) and again would like to see what a few (6-8) H-6K could do in PAF with Airlaunched Babur and BG-6.

I agree with you on the need for SAMs which is something I feel that Pakistan has completely ignored in all facets of its defense (Over land and Naval). Pakistan needs to work with the Chinese and Russians to develop or acquire long range SAMs with a competent ABM ability. H-9 would be a good jumping off point but something in the league of S-400 (which is unlikely for Pakistan) would be ideal in the long term.

I would also have AWC work with Denel and Mectron to develop a range of all aspect missiles with Solid BVR and WVR capabilities with the IR and Radar Guided capabilities. A MICA meets A-darter if you will, with range in the class of Sd-10 (one type IR another will have Active Radar seeker like MICA-IR and MICA-EM). This way, no matter whose aircraft you operate, you have uniform weapons across the board and they belong to you, no questions of if this weapon will be compatible with that radar, etc.

 

[Super Falcon]

A

Hi,

The difference is that this size of a fighter reflects the mindset of the paf pilot---what he wants.

Now if as a civilian----defence enthusiaist---my input was asked---my choice would be similar to the japanese---a JF17 slightly larger than the F16---so---basically a J10---.

There is a reason for the size of the JF17---its design structure and what the paf pilot had in mind in how to use and operate this aircraft---.

After flying the F16 for decades---it would betough to find another aircraft to compete with it----so that is where the input of the paf pilots came in---. The JF17 can not have obvious F16 feateures but very similar.

The ease of operation but more so on ease of maintenance---and in this case---only one technician can do the basic maintenance of this aircraft---.

This aircraft is not for show and pomp---like the twin engine twin tails aircraft---but it is rather a work horse.

The only problem that we see over here is the 1 - 2 punch package is not complete. The JF 17 needs to be complimented by a larger aircraft----the likes of J10C---the J16 or something similar---.

It needs a bigger brother to show its maximum potential.




Hi,

In military matters---truth is not always the best policy---deception and deceit is the ultimate goal---.

The JF17 is a cost effective aircraft----actually it an extremely cost effective aircraft. So---the first primary goal and target is already accomplished.

You got you MA degree---and you got a job---you got a decent income and decent living---but now you have the opportunity to do your PhD and then sky is the limit---.

So you say what-----I don't want to be ordinary---I want to be extra-ordinary---I want to be someone special---.

As you have already built up your foundations well---you see an available opportunity that would rocket your progress upwards with a bang. So---you tell your dada and mom and wife and kids that you are on a mission to seek niravana and you need their support to propel you in the right direction. And they all say---" yeah daddy let us do it "---.

And after you get your degree and and get what you wanted---you are now strutting around like a peacock with the feather stuck up his ar-se---.

So---life is not treating the JF17 any different---. It is just telling it---that if it removed that module---it can install a module 10 times more potent in the same place---.

Because as there is a program of building JF17---there are parallel programs being run by other vendors to take it the levels way beyond imagination or whatever the original planning was at the time of conception.

These vendors produce complimentary systems in competition to each other to get the contracts to have their systems installed and in operation.

So---they make the ordinary into extra-ordinary---.

So---when you look at " inexpensive "---you have to take into consideration---" inexpensive in relation to what "---because inexpensive by itself mean nothing---it has to have a comparable replacement.

So---you can have a Honda Accord LX---a Sport package---an EX---an EX-L---EX-l Navi-EXV-L---EXV-L navi( v6 )----.

Growth is a natural progression of things in life---stagnant things die fast.

Agreed than why PAF not going to be extra ordinery and buy out of the box twin engine jet
Currently what u say i agree with u there should be no limits in planning future but truth is PAF think tank is on same F 16 Mindset i dont understand these 8 F 16 which we ordering do any good other than joy rides

PAF decept in thunder why not it decepts and buy 2 engine jet

 

[Erroroverload]

Hi,

You kids need to think with your BRAINS----about this navy submarine deal-----here is how it looks.

It has diminished your first strike capability---and has diminished your survival from first strike as well---because you have placed all your navy funds in one bucket----where the delivery of the 5th 6th 7th 8th subs would start from after 6 years from today.

If you had split the deal---you could have had 2 sqdrn's twin engine naval strike aircraft---couple of 054 and a couple of F22's as well and still had 4 subs at you disposal inthe same time.

Then REFRESHED THE DEAL after 5 years and added more funds---.

Children should learn from what is being said---.

First part of your post, Totally disagree with you.Neither it has diminished our first strike capability nor diminished our survival from first strike.that doesn't make any sense that buying subs has diminished our first strike capability or it has some affect that we cant survive from first strike by our enemy.

Second part, I agree we should have split the deal and buy a twin engine giant jet like your favorite JH7b.
But what we can say about our policy makers.

 

[Quwa]

@Quwa...oh...you had me until the F-16s!

I think the way forward is for PAF is honestly how this thread started...a top notch avionics package for the JF-17 based roughly on the Gripen NG. That being said, I dont think J-10C will have any type of role in PAF given the fact that it is fairly redundant with the JF-17 in terms of capabilities. It doesnt represent a quantum leap in terms of a2a over a JF-17 equiped with gripen like electronics, nor is it far superior in strike.

Definately go for the FC-31 and use it to replace F-16s going forward from 2020s onward. And we have already discussed my opinion on strike aircraft (Su>JH-7B>other options) and again would like to see what a few (6-8) H-6K could do in PAF with Airlaunched Babur and BG-6.

I agree with you on the need for SAMs which is something I feel that Pakistan has completely ignored in all facets of its defense (Over land and Naval). Pakistan needs to work with the Chinese and Russians to develop or acquire long range SAMs with a competent ABM ability. H-9 would be a good jumping off point but something in the league of S-400 (which is unlikely for Pakistan) would be ideal in the long term.

I would also have AWC work with Denel and Mectron to develop a range of all aspect missiles with Solid BVR and WVR capabilities with the IR and Radar Guided capabilities. A MICA meets A-darter if you will, with range in the class of Sd-10 (one type IR another will have Active Radar seeker like MICA-IR and MICA-EM). This way, no matter whose aircraft you operate, you have uniform weapons across the board and they belong to you, no questions of if this weapon will be compatible with that radar, etc.

I threw in the F-16s at the end, but with all the programs requiring attention before hand, there's no way the PAF would get to them. Right now, prioritize JF-17 and raise its capacities; work with Selex ES for electronics, work with Denel and Mectron for munitions.

 

[Khafee]

Hi,

Basically---an enemy of the state of pakistan would further invest in the F16's---be it BLK52---BLK V or the BLK 61 / 62.

The time for the F16 has come and gone---this love affair and drama of the f16 needs to end.

18 F16 based on the current package would cost around 3 billion dollars----which are equal to 60 + J10C's---60 + J16's or 60 + SU35's.

18 newer F16 do nothing to change the power positioning of the air force----but 60 + aicraft of the chinese or russian descent would make a tremendous difference---.

As for the money for the aircraft---it was available----some idiot made the mistake of doing a 5 billion dollars deal for 8 submarines stretched over a period of 10---12 years---.

@MastanKhan @Rashid Mahmood I've heard that the 8 new subs will be able to carry 2~4 JL-3, can you confirm or deny this?

 

[Khafee]

I threw in the F-16s at the end, but with all the programs requiring attention before hand, there's no way the PAF would get to them. Right now, prioritize JF-17 and raise its capacities; work with Selex ES for electronics, work with Denel and Mectron for munitions.

JF-17's has an inherent flaw - Loiter time.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

@MastanKhan @Rashid Mahmood I've heard that the 8 new subs will be able to carry 2~4 JL-3, can you confirm or deny this?

Different Sub program

 

[HRK]

@MastanKhan @Rashid Mahmood I've heard that the 8 new subs will be able to carry 2~4 JL-3, can you confirm or deny this?

Different Sub program

SLBM JL-3 is a derivative of DF-31A with a supposed range of 10,000+ KM some web source reported the range of the missile upto 11,000+ KM ....

plz there must be some limit to 'speculations' .....

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

SLBM JL-3 is a derivative of DF-31A with a supposed range of 10,000+ KM some web source reported the range of the missile upto 11,000+ KM ....

plz there must be some limit to 'speculations' .....

The 08 SSKs are derived from the Kilo class design. There is no place for SLBM in them, nor it is necessary, since the role is defence and interdiction. However, if there maybe another program to accommodate the SLBM, then who knows.

JF-17's has an inherent flaw - Loiter time.

JF17 critics also have an inherent flaw, unfair comparison.

Once again, JF17 is to replace A5, Mirage 3/5 and F7. JF17 has greater loiter time than all three aircraft.

JF17 has been configured to be launched, fire at OTH target, and recover to base. It is not an F15 that will loiter on target with the pilot wearing pampers.

However, you have the right of your opinion, and make whatever analysis you like. I love to see comparisons with Blk 60, EFT, JSF, SU30, and TEJAS, though none of them matter.

 

[Bratva]

The 08 SSKs are derived from the Kilo class design. There is no place for SLBM in them, nor it is necessary, since the role is defence and interdiction. However, if there maybe another program to accommodate the SLBM, then who knows.



JF17 critics also have an inherent flaw, unfair comparison.

Once again, JF17 is to replace A5, Mirage 3/5 and F7. JF17 has greater loiter time than all three aircraft.

JF17 has been configured to be launched, fire at OTH target, and recover to base. It is not an F15 that will loiter on target with the pilot wearing pampers.

However, you have the right of your opinion, and make whatever analysis you like. I love to see comparisons with Blk 60, EFT, JSF, SU30, and TEJAS, though none of them matter.

You have an inherent flaw in your logic. JF-17 has born into an era where His adversaries would be Mig29, Mirage 2000, SU-30, LCA all equipped with HMD and High bore off sight missiles. Hence many people including me wants a higher end JF-17 and drop the cost effective BS tag line at all. @Tank131 made a great analogy. JF-17 should not become another F-7PG after 10-15 years. F-7PG has become irrelevant in today's environment isnt it ?

Different Sub program

That nuke sub would take another 12-15 year to materialize and the need of hour is to have SLCM capability in next 5 years.