Secular by Necessity

[El Sidd]

God bless my pakistan.

which God? why not gods?

 

[Maula Jatt]

which God? why not gods?

Stop trolling
God, or at least be funny with it

 

[El Sidd]

A place where they form a majority to avoid tyranny of Hindu majority.

How? By being tyrannical majority themselves?

Stop trolling
God, or at least be funny with it

So you think belief in multiple gods is funny or trolling? that's some secular progress

 

[Maula Jatt]

How? By being tyrannical majority themselves?

I mean this is what islamists have become in some respect to their religious minorities as in diverse sects etc - a tyrannical majority

 

[SkyWolf]

which God? why not gods?

Blasphemy. Sacrilege.
What is the punishment for questioning the singularity of allah?
Khalifa zarvan sentences you to capital punishment.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Islam orders to implement it upon yourself and others.

No Sir Islam not a religion, it never was. Please first understand Islam. It's a whole system....Islam is not individual thing.

Have you read the Quran?
10-108 Say, "O mankind, the truth has come to you from your Lord, so whoever is guided is only guided for his soul, and whoever goes astray only goes astray against it. And I am not over you a manager."

 

[El Sidd]

I mean this is what islamists have become in some respect to their religious minorities as in diverse sects etc - a tyrannical majority

when will there be substance to your rhetorics?

Blasphemy. Sacrilege.
What is the punishment for questioning the singularity of allah?
Khalifa zarvan sentences you to capital punishment.

Are you his spokesman?

 

[Maula Jatt]

when will there be substance to your rhetorics?

Are you his spokesman?

Ahmedi, shia target killings, attitude towards Cristian minority
All out there, they're signs of a tyrannical majority

 

[Norwegian]

How? By being tyrannical majority themselves?

Yes, Muslims in Pakistan by tyranny of their majority are a menace for Pakistani minorities such as Qadianis, Jews etc

 

[Zarvan]

Have you read the Quran?
10-108 Say, "O mankind, the truth has come to you from your Lord, so whoever is guided is only guided for his soul, and whoever goes astray only goes astray against it. And I am not over you a manager."

Yes I have it's you who need to study it. You clearly missed several of these ayats and are quoting an ayat with out context.


3:110

“You [the true followers of the Prophet] are the best of people ever raised up for mankind. You enjoin what is good and forbid all that is evil, and you believe in Allah.” And Allah said:

وَلْتَكُن مِّنكُمْ أُمَّةٌ يَدْعُونَ إِلَى الْخَيْرِ وَيَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ ۚ وَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ – 3:104

“Let there arise out of you a group of people inviting to good (i.e. Islam), enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil – it is they who are successful.” Allah also stated:

وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتُ بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاءُ بَعْضٍ ۚ يَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَيُطِيعُونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ ۚ أُولَٰئِكَ سَيَرْحَمُهُمُ اللَّهُ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ – 9:71

“The believing men and believing women are allies of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong. They establish the Prayer, pay the Zakāh and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah will have mercy on them. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.” The hypocrites, male or female, are the opposite to this. They enjoin what is evil and they forbid what is good. We ask Allah for well-being and protection. Allah (the Most High) said:

الْمُنَافِقُونَ وَالْمُنَافِقَاتُ بَعْضُهُم مِّن بَعْضٍ ۚ يَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمُنكَرِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَقْبِضُونَ أَيْدِيَهُمْ ۚ نَسُوا اللَّهَ فَنَسِيَهُمْ ۗ إِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ هُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ – 9:67

“The hypocrite men and hypocrite women are of one another. They enjoin what is wrong and forbid what is right and they close their hands. They have forgotten Allah, so He has forgotten them [accordingly]. Indeed, the hypocrites – it is they who are the defiantly disobedient.”



“Except for those who have believed and do righteous deeds and advise each other to truth and advise each other to patience.“ (Al-‘Asr 3) And the righteous Luqmān said:

“O, my son! Perform the Prayers, enjoin the what is good, and forbid from all that is evil and wrong, and bear with patience whatever befalls you. Verily! These are some of the important commandments ordered by Allah with no exemption.” (Luqmān 17)


Abu Sa’eed Al-Khudri narrated that Allāh’s Messenger (ﷺ) said, “Whoever among you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand. If he is unable, then with his speech. If he is unable, then with his heart.” (Muslim, 49)

Messenger (ﷺ) say, ‘When the people see a wrongdoer and they do not prevent him then Allāh will soon punish them all.'” (Abu Dāwūd 4338 Sahīh by Al-Albāni) T

“There are not a people among whom acts of disobedience take place and they are able to change them but they do not change them except that Allah will soon include them all in a punishment from Himself.” (Abu Dāwūd 4338, Sahīh by Al-Albānī)]

Prophet sal-lal-laahu-alaihi-wa-sallam said:
“The likeness of the man who observes the limits prescribed by Allah and that of the man who transgresses them is like the people who get on board a ship after casting lots. Some of them are in its lower deck and some of them in its upper (deck). Those who are in its lower (deck), when they require water, go to the occupants of the upper deck, and say to them : ‘If we make a hole in the bottom of the ship, we shall not harm you.’ If they (the occupants of the upper deck) leave them to carry out their design they all will be drowned. But if they do not let them go ahead (with their plan), all of them will remain safe”. (Hadeeth No. 187 here)

The Prophet sal-lal-laahu-alaihi-wa-sallam said:
“By Him in Whose Hand my life is, you either enjoin good and forbid evil, or Allah will certainly soon send His punishment to you. Then you will make supplication and it will not be accepted”. (Hadeeth No. 193, Riyadhus Saliheen, Chapter 23)




@SkyWolf

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Yes I have it's you who need to study it. You clearly missed several of these ayats and are quoting an ayat with out context.


3:110

“You [the true followers of the Prophet] are the best of people ever raised up for mankind. You enjoin what is good and forbid all that is evil, and you believe in Allah.” And Allah said:

وَلْتَكُن مِّنكُمْ أُمَّةٌ يَدْعُونَ إِلَى الْخَيْرِ وَيَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ ۚ وَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ – 3:104

“Let there arise out of you a group of people inviting to good (i.e. Islam), enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil – it is they who are successful.” Allah also stated:

وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتُ بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاءُ بَعْضٍ ۚ يَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَيُطِيعُونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ ۚ أُولَٰئِكَ سَيَرْحَمُهُمُ اللَّهُ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ – 9:71

“The believing men and believing women are allies of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong. They establish the Prayer, pay the Zakāh and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah will have mercy on them. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.” The hypocrites, male or female, are the opposite to this. They enjoin what is evil and they forbid what is good. We ask Allah for well-being and protection. Allah (the Most High) said:

الْمُنَافِقُونَ وَالْمُنَافِقَاتُ بَعْضُهُم مِّن بَعْضٍ ۚ يَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمُنكَرِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَقْبِضُونَ أَيْدِيَهُمْ ۚ نَسُوا اللَّهَ فَنَسِيَهُمْ ۗ إِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ هُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ – 9:67

“The hypocrite men and hypocrite women are of one another. They enjoin what is wrong and forbid what is right and they close their hands. They have forgotten Allah, so He has forgotten them [accordingly]. Indeed, the hypocrites – it is they who are the defiantly disobedient.”

Didn't make me think that Islam is not a religion. Belief, prayers, zakat, righteousness, enjoining good and forbidding evil. Ameen.

 

[Zarvan]

Didn't make me think that Islam is not a religion. Belief, prayers, zakat, righteousness, enjoining good and forbidding evil. Ameen.

Islam is a Deen. It also has criminal and economic and moral and social system. You clearly never read Islam in detail. Bother and go and read it. Islam has a whole system of Governance and economic laws and criminal laws and moral and social laws which is duty of state to implement and enforce I really think you are smart enough to know that cutting hands for stealing should be done by state not individuals. It you can't even get that basic thing then I can do nothing about that.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

You clearly never read Islam in detail.

Quran is the ultimate book of Islam. I am reading it.
10-99 And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, would you compel the people in order that they become believers?

 

[Zarvan]

Quran is the ultimate book of Islam. I am reading it.
10-99 And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, would you compel the people in order that they become believers?

You clearly are reading without context and you are not getting what Quran says. Find a good teacher who teaches you Quran. I first proved you wrong then again you again I can prove you wrong but it's waste of time.

He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, [O Muḥammad], and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish the religion and not be divided therein. Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back [to Him].

Qurah Surah 42 Ayat 13

 

[jamahir]

Like Capitalism is a system and Communism is a system. Islam has its own economic, social, criminal and moral system which is duty of Government to enforce and if they fail to do their duty, then it's duty of each and every Muslim to put pressure on Government to do it.

I quote below about what an Indian Islamic scholar found more than 90 years ago about the similarity between Islam and Communism. The quote is from a thread of mine from 2016 whose OP is by the Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha You may support it :

During the same period (1920s-30s), another (though lesser known) Islamic scholar in undivided India got smitten by the 1917 Russian revolution and Marxism.

Hafiz Rahman Sihwarwl saw Islam and Marxism sharing five elements in common: (1) prohibition of the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the privileged classes (2) organisation of the economic structure of the state to ensure social welfare (3) equality of opportunity for all human beings (4) priority of collective social interest over individual privilege and (5) prevention of the permanentising of class structure through social revolution.

The motivations for many of these themes he drew from the Qur’an, which he understood as seeking to create an economic order in which the rich pay excessive, though voluntary taxes (Zakat) to minimise differences in living standards.

In the areas that Sihwarwl saw Islam and communism diverge were Islam’s sanction of private ownership within certain limits, and in its refusal to recognise an absolutely classless basis of society.

He suggested that Islam, with its prohibition of the accumulation of wealth, is able to control the class structure through equality of opportunity.

Basically, both Sindhi and Sihwarwl had stumbled upon an Islamic concept of the social democratic welfare state.

You mentioned the clergy earlier. Does Islam even have a clergy system ? An agent between Man and God ? From the same article I quote :

Building upon the initial thoughts of Sindhi and Sihwarwl were perhaps South Asia’s two most ardent and articulate supporters and theoreticians of Islamic Socilaism: Ghulam Ahmed Parvez and Dr. Khalifa Abdul Hakim.

Parvez was a prominent ‘Quranist’, or an Islamic scholar who insisted that for the Muslims to make progress in the modern world, Islamic thought and laws should be entirely based on the modern interpretations of the Qu’ran and on the complete rejection of the hadith (sayings of the Prophet and his companions based on hearsay and compiled over a 100 years after the Prophet’s demise).

After studying traditional Muslim texts, as well as Sufism, Parvez claimed that almost all hadiths were fabrications by those who wanted Islam to seem like an intolerant faith and by ancient Muslim kings who used these hadiths to give divine legitimacy to their tyrannical rules.

Parvez also insisted that Muslims should spend more time studying the modern sciences instead of wasting their energies on fighting out ancient sectarian conflicts or ignoring the true egalitarian and enlightening spirit of the Qu’ran by indulging in multiple rituals handed down to them by ancient ulema, clerics and compilers of the hadith.

Understandably, Parvez was right away attacked by conservative Islamic scholars and political outfits.

But this didn’t stop famous Muslim philosopher and poet, Muhammad Iqbal, to befriend the young scholar and then introduce him to the future founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Jinnah appointed Parvez to edit a magazine, Talu-e-Islam. It was set-up to propagate the creation of a separate Muslim country and to also answer the attacks that Jinnah’s All India Muslim League had begun to face from conservative Islamic parties and ulemawho accused the League of being a pseudo-Muslim organisation and Jinnah for being too westernised and ‘lacking correct Islamic behavior.’

Apart from continuing to author books and commentaries on the Qu’ran, Parvez wrote a series of articles in Talu-e-Islam that propagated a more socialistic view of the holy book.

In a series of essays for the magazine he used verses from the Qu’ran, incidents from the faith’s history and insights from the writings of Muhammad Iqbal to claim:

The clergy and conservative ulema have hijacked Islam.

They are agents of the rich people and promoters of uncontrolled Capitalism.

Socialism best enforces Qur’anic dictums on property, justice and distribution of wealth.

Islam’s main mission was the eradication of all injustices and cruelties from society. It was a socio-economic movement, and the Prophet was a leader seeking to put an end to the capitalist exploitation of the Quraysh merchants and the corrupt bureaucracy of Byzantium and Persia.

According to the Qur’an, Muslims have three main responsibilities: seeing, hearing and sensing through the agency of the mind. Consequently, real knowledge is based on empirically verifiable observation, or through the role of science.

Poverty is the punishment of God and deserved by those who ignore science.

In Muslim/Islamic societies, science, as well as agrarian reform should play leading roles in developing an industrialised economy.

A socialist path is a correction of the medieval distortion of Islam through Shari’a.

Parvez joined the government after the creation of Pakistan in 1947, but after Jinnah’s death in 1948, he was sidelined until he resigned from his post in 1956.

Down with the clergy I say ! Down with the mullah and the mullan / mulli !

@Sainthood 101