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Scrutiny and possible actions against Pak for perceived or real support to Afg Taliban.

Some consequences are partially inevitable, some are partially the result of useless leadership with little international credibility, being completely inept at diplomacy, and no capacity to lobby the halls of power in the way that it matters.

Sanctions aren’t to be taken lightly, they cost the state and its citizens dearly.
 
Some consequences are partially inevitable, some are partially the result of useless leadership with little international credibility, being completely inept at diplomacy, and no capacity to lobby the halls of power in the way that it matters.

Sanctions aren’t to be taken lightly, they cost the state and its citizens dearly.

So what? There are always consequences to the pursuit of national interests, not all of them good. That is just the way things always go, for all sides.
 
Some consequences are partially inevitable, some are partially the result of useless leadership with little international credibility, being completely inept at diplomacy, and no capacity to lobby the halls of power in the way that it matters.

Sanctions aren’t to be taken lightly, they cost the state and its citizens dearly.
There won't be any sanctions.
 
People are thinking that it is good for Pakistan after Taliban came to power in Afghanistan.

But I could clearly able to see that it will be more negative subsequent impacts to Pakistan.

US will surely going to dump Pakistan and will not support.

Russia - they have very limited interest, maximum their boarders and ISIS. They have more similar and common interests in South aisa with india..

Rest, china - even they are more interested on trade and business with other countries including india, than Afghanistan and Taliban
Your post it with an Indian perspective. Pakistan is the 5th biggest country in the world and things will be in line with that going forward.

US Politicians are playing politics as always while US economy & deficit is not being addressed. Sanctions for Pakistan is not a first time or new.
 
I hope they don't, there will be short term pain, but ultimately if we do it will be a blessing, there is so much long term gain to be had.

We are a country of f**king idiots. We don't learn lessons the easy way. The Pressler amendment should never have been forgotten. In the 30 years since, which markets have we diversified into?

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Pakistan deserves everything coming to it.
 
What Pakistan Govt. did (or did not) do - was not without knowing the consequences (good or bad).

If the gain was not going to be greater than the loss, what govt. would proceed with what is being alleged by this bill? Think of the gains and losses.

The allegations in the bill could be false I am sure, but in that case (I agree) there is a need for strong diplomatic offensive by Pakistan govt.

Whether or not sanctions are proposed, more diplomatic activity and lobbying in Washington needs to be pressed forward with.
 
Dear, I appreciate your confidence in person but some realities shall be discussed at times.

Pakistan is much vulnerable in economic front due to lack of industries which can help offset Pakistani overreliance on remittances and imports. Pakistan finds itself in situations which necessitate an IMF bailout package from time to time unfortunately. Pakistani currency is on devaluation trajectory (vs. USD) on continuous basis by extension. The resultant inflation affects many in the country but those who have massive amounts of cash and investment opportunities.

USA can crash Pakistani economic system rather easily unfortunately. They can stop all manner of trade with Pakistan and just this decision is sufficient to imbalance Pakistani BOP to painful extent. They can pressure IMF to not offer bailout package(s) to Pakistan as well. They can also create problems for other countries which might be willing to help Pakistan. WE must understand that USA is a superpower and not a paper tiger like India; USA have global footprint and economic clout in essence.

Catch would be loss of Pakistani goodwill? Well, Americans are OK with imposing sanctions on Russia let alone Pakistan. Negative perceptions can be powerful motivators.

Consider Venezuela for perspective. This country have the largest reserves of oil in the world but its economy is virtually crippled and the country is a failed state by extension. It certainly exists due to UN recognized boundaries and safe neighborhood. But it is much less than what it could be under favorable circumstances. This is mostly due to American hostility and lack of cooperation.

There is another example in our own neighborhood. Have a look at Iran. Although Iran have managed to do much better than Venezuela due to reliable trading partners, it is unable to realize its true potential for growth and prosperity. 1 USD = 42,190 IRR; imagine this. Iranian clergy is set in its ways however; largely indifferent to poverty situation and protests. If American sanctions are lifted from Iran, the latter will grow and prosper at a rapid pace and create new benchmarks in the region.

Pakistan does not have export-grade OIL like Venezuela and Iran on the other hand.

Allah Almighty have created this world and only he decides which of his servants can be dominant over others. WE can say that USA is one of the trials for the believers in modern times.

Let me assure you that I am not pessimistic or afraid myself but I am a realist and try to see things in true light.

There is no shame in admitting that there are unsettling realities and limitations of Pakistan. This is but a reminder from Allah Almighty that all is in his good hands (only). That WE should be HUMBLE on personal and national level.

There is another observation; regional fault lines and disputes which make it easier for USA to exploit and penalize distant countries. If our region is peaceful with zero fault lines and disputes, WE will be in a better position to cope with certain shocks. But this is not the case unfortunately.


True, but both Pakistan and India lost hundreds of troops in this conflict.

My point is that Pakistani armed forces could push much further into J&K with CAS from a well-equipped PAF which wasn't the case back then (unfortunately). PAF was nowhere in sight in this conflict due to multiple reasons.

PAF is in much better shape now. Pakistani security system as a whole is in much better shape now. Pakistani armed forces are in better shape than Indian armed forces in the present (this is big achievement on our part with relatively limited resources and by the grace of Allah Almighty).

But the art of warfare continues to evolve with induction of new types of weapon systems among other factors; this is true for both Pakistan and India. It is becoming increasingly difficult to take J&K by force consequently.

WE can deliver blows to India in J&K but India is large enough to absorb them and continue to offer resistance on the ground because 'defensive posture' is rather convenient. Offensive missions are relatively costly and difficult. Just look at how many years it took to take control of Waziristan.

China can help in J&K but I am not sure if Chinese leadership is willing to have a major confrontation with India anytime soon. Nuclear weapons give a pause to any entity and India will have a threshold as well.

Time will tell of-course.
bro, I'm not a young hot blooded young buck who shoots from the hips based on emotional whims. whatever I say, I say it based on well grounded verifiable realities and the ground realities dictate that the world has changed. this is not the world where the u.s. has unchallenged control on the global stage where no one would block their moves in global supposedly independent institutions. today, they face blockers every where by powers like China, Russia, even Pakistan, Turkey & france. car in point, they have been advocating pushing Pakistan to the fatf blacklist for almost the last one year ever since biden took over but they keep getting blocked. the blocking nations are growing. the best that they can do is stop trading with us, big deal. the days of the u.s. being the only big market to export to are long gone. there are other, bigger markets with more buying power now. Trust me, this will be a blessing in disguise and may even prove to be the catalyst for extracting our own oil and gas which we have plenty of reserves of that we never utilized just to keep the arab "brothers" happy.
 
. Trust me, this will be a blessing in disguise and may even prove to be the catalyst for extracting our own oil and gas which we have plenty of reserves of that we never utilized just to keep the arab "brothers" happy.
Turkey has been finding hydrocarbons only when she deployed her very own seismic tools/ships with indigenous tech.....
 
bro, I'm not a young hot blooded young buck who shoots from the hips based on emotional whims. whatever I say, I say it based on well grounded verifiable realities and the ground realities dictate that the world has changed. this is not the world where the u.s. has unchallenged control on the global stage where no one would block their moves in global supposedly independent institutions. today, they face blockers every where by powers like China, Russia, even Pakistan, Turkey & france. car in point, they have been advocating pushing Pakistan to the fatf blacklist for almost the last one year ever since biden took over but they keep getting blocked. the blocking nations are growing. the best that they can do is stop trading with us, big deal. the days of the u.s. being the only big market to export to are long gone. there are other, bigger markets with more buying power now. Trust me, this will be a blessing in disguise and may even prove to be the catalyst for extracting our own oil and gas which we have plenty of reserves of that we never utilized just to keep the arab "brothers" happy.
Pakistan does have constructive relationships with some countries. Most notable are KSA, Turkey and China respectively. Each have its own geopolitical significance and voice in global affairs. These countries have helped Pakistan cope with pressures of FATF as well.

But how Pakistan landed in FATF grey list is in part due to American arm-twisting tactics and in part due to internal problems. Money laundering was/is one of the biggest concerns in Pakistani political circles and a familiar them for PML(N) in particular. Misutilization of charity funds is another concern due to sections of Pakistani clergy having semi-autonomy and sway on Public opinion. Being at the forefront of War On Terror in Afghanistan had its share of both positives and negatives.

In regards to your point about 'new potential markets' for various Pakistani goods in theory, my counterpoint is that what Pakistan offers to other countries in terms of EXPORTS in the present?

China is extremely competitive in terms of EXPORTS because China manufactures virtually everything of great value. Pakistan does not even register on global radar in comparison.

USA is very competitive in terms of EXPORTS as well because USA offers numerous technologies of great value to other countries in the form of key components and even finished goods. Pakistan does not hold a candle in this case either.

Both China and USA are economic giants and two of the largest markets in the world. Any person with even a rudimentary understanding of global financial trends can understand that how both USA and China are able to influence global financial trends.

Problem is that if USA is angry and hostile to a much less developed economy, it will not flourish no matter what it does. I mentioned two examples in my previous response. There are additional examples as well.

Virtually failed states can exist and function in this day and age as well but these countries have appeal and future unless they have internal revolutions and/or shift in geopolitics.

In an ideal world, Pakistan can do well while being totally indifferent to USA but this is a misleading perception grounded in mental hubris. Some are building castles in the sky in their wild imaginations.

Pakistani options should be informed by hard data and credible economic risk evaluations from authentic financial experts, and not on the basis of wild imaginations.

If USA becomes openly hostile to Pakistan, what will be our options? This is the million dollar question to ponder over. When Pervez Musharraf had to face this kind of situation, he buckled (This is not on him; his evaluations had merit in them).

PM Imran Khan also knows what is at stake. His strongman posture have little impact on White House.

Anyways, in regards to this topic, I do not think that there are sufficient number of senators onboard. WE are good for now.
 
the result of useless leadership with little international credibility, being completely inept at diplomacy, and no capacity to lobby the halls of power in the way that it matters
You mean to say the previous leadership was actually very capable and they were lobbying Pakistans interest to a point where US was about to sanction india instead of pakistan?
Who are you trying to fool here other than yourself?Who ruled Pakistan for past 3 decades and more? and how pakistan's image from a time when its examples were quoted to the world, changed to a third world failed state? There was no IK or pti back than, it was in the very capable leadership of Mian Muhammad Nawaz Shairf and his counter part BB taking turns running Pakistan.
 
Pakistan does have constructive relationships with some countries. Most notable are KSA, Turkey and China respectively. Each have its own geopolitical significance and voice in global affairs. These countries have helped Pakistan cope with pressures of FATF as well.
Those countries have deep rooted strategic interests in Pakistan. one has to accept that there IS an "unofficial" but "looming" threat of Pakistan's nuclear umbrella that all these nations enjoy.
But how Pakistan landed in FATF grey list is in part due to American arm-twisting tactics and in part due to internal problems. Money laundering was/is one of the biggest concerns in Pakistani political circles and a familiar them for PML(N) in particular. Misutilization of charity funds is another concern due to sections of Pakistani clergy having semi-autonomy and sway on Public opinion. Being at the forefront of War On Terror in Afghanistan had its share of both positives and negatives.
bluntly put bro, pml-n including the entire sharif family and their patwaris need to be trialed for treason. they purposefully engineered Pakistan getting on the fatf grey list as an attempt to manipulate the Establishment that if they attempt to hold the sharif family accountable and punish them that they will harm Pakistan economically...this was done on purpose but in the bigger scheme of things, it is apparent that the Establishment has made up its mind to untimately remove all these shit politicians and their crony patwaris and jiyalas in the long run, thus we see an approach of biting the bullet and taking their foreign masters head on by calling their bluffs and blunting their attacks. it HAS to be done...as a nation, we will NOT be manipulated anymore.
In regards to your point about 'new potential markets' for various Pakistani goods in theory, my counterpoint is that what Pakistan offers to other countries in terms of EXPORTS in the present?
agreed that up until the last 3 years, yes, we primarily exported fabrics and agriculture and that too, basically in dwindling quantities. But we do see a spike in these exports along with a big increase in software AND hardware exports. For example, Pakistan has started exporting mobile smart phones that are assembled in Pakistan. More to come. Exports are an interesting phenomenon in economics, they have a way of creating sales opportunities and wealth creation in its own right for both the exporter and the importer.
China is extremely competitive in terms of EXPORTS because China manufactures virtually everything of great value. Pakistan does not even register on global radar in comparison.

USA is very competitive in terms of EXPORTS as well because USA offers numerous technologies of great value to other countries in the form of key components and even finished goods. Pakistan does not hold a candle in this case either.
that is correct but let's understand that the american exports which are primarily technological are EXPENSIVE while the Chinese technological exports have started replacing american technological exports by a huge margine; Huawei 5G is an example; u.s. and a handful of its anglo-saxon sidekick nations can refuse to work with Huawei all they want but let's face it, Huawei has replaced american telecom in most of asia, almost all of africa and all of south america along with parts of europe. american telecom is no where in these locations or at best, with a minor presence where they have to work under Chinese influence. Huawei is about to start 5G pilot projects in Pakistan even. this is one example of how american business is being replaced by Chinese business. Pakistan, in the face of potential sancitons, WILL capitalize on this. It serves Chinese global ambitions to blunt any effect of american sanctions against anyone by neutralizing it through trade with China.
Both China and USA are economic giants and two of the largest markets in the world. Any person with even a rudimentary understanding of global financial trends can understand that how both USA and China are able to influence global financial trends.

Problem is that if USA is angry and hostile to a much less developed economy, it will not flourish no matter what it does. I mentioned two examples in my previous response. There are additional examples as well.
I disagree. a good example is the once upon a time failed nation of somalia. usa created utter chaos there but look at them today, China was the catalyst that not only stabilized somalia but also brought it back to the status of a developing 3rd world nation. it actually HAS a GDP growth for cryin' out loud, something that was a laughable thought merely 5 years ago...
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2.40 GDP growth rate is actually pretty decent for a nation that was considered as a failed state with warlords running around and a nonexistent economy.
Virtually failed states can exist and function in this day and age as well but these countries have appeal and future unless they have internal revolutions and/or shift in geopolitics.

In an ideal world, Pakistan can do well while being totally indifferent to USA but this is a misleading perception grounded in mental hubris. Some are building castles in the sky in their wild imaginations.
Pakistan IS steering itself away from all economic dependence on the u.s. from what I could tell. military dependance on the u.s. is long gone thanks to advanced Chinese weaponary. The same is being done to economic dependance on the u.s. rest assured, the Pakistani deep state has shown all indications of steering the country away from all american influences, be it political, social or economic...the day when we will be indifferent to american sanctions is not far away, we will be seeing our leaders looking at american sanctions with a smirk while making comments like "oh look, how cute, sanctions again"... :lol: jokes aside, americans have seen that we CAN become vicious diplomatically. they have seen how we have put their bedroom bitch india on the diplomatic defensive through our own diplomatic maneuvering and america has a LOT to hide, by way of war crimes and other crimes against humanity. they would be utterly stupid to call out our abilities as a bluff given what they have seen.
Pakistani options should be informed by hard data and credible economic risk evaluations from authentic financial experts, and not on the basis of wild imaginations.

If USA becomes openly hostile to Pakistan, what will be our options? This is the million dollar question to ponder over.

Anyways, in regards to this topic, I do not think that there are sufficient number of senators onboard. WE are good for now.
bro, usa has been openly hostile since 2012. I don't know if you remember, but there was a time post salala when Pakistan had cut off all supplies to afghanistan, there were open programs on fox channels with there "military experts" and "former navy seals turned analysts" barfing crap obout how the president has put the us fleets on high alert and how they will attack and forcefully open the supply routes, I've even seen discussions about their redneck yahoos uttering nothings like "how in the first wave, 3 supply routes will be secured and then under the air cover of apaches, jsoc will start hunting down and confiscating Pakistan's nuclear weapons" and what not...kia hua? NOTHING! ZILCH! ZAPATA! secretary of state hillary had to ultimately apologize, zaleel ho kay bil aakhir maafi maang ni parhi.

bottom line, Imran Khan is no fool and nor is the Military Establishment. rest assured that war-gaming for all scenarios has already been done. In the words of NSA Moeed Yusuf, its not about geopolitics anymore, its all about geoeconomics; the old wrinkly farts here in capital hill haven't grasped the depth of this.
 
Some consequences are partially inevitable, some are partially the result of useless leadership with little international credibility, being completely inept at diplomacy, and no capacity to lobby the halls of power in the way that it matters.

Sanctions aren’t to be taken lightly, they cost the state and its citizens dearly.

Dear Sir, do you believe AZ and MNS were gems and now people are useless. It were them who did not take appropriate measures to stop money laundering cause they themselves were involved in parking their wealth abroad resultantly we were blacklisted. Our adversaries were lobbying around the globe and our leadership was sitting mum. In fact projects like orange train and ill planned power projects with out matching improvement in transmission system are perpetual debt makers. Presence family including grand children in UN sessions show state of interest and capability. Weak economic condition and lack of interest is perfect recipe for the state we are in.
Obviously sanctions are not to be taken lightly, we need to play our cards well. Slapping sanctions won't be easy for US and in this case they also have a lot to lose. US should / will consider results of sanctions in 90's which did not prove good for either side. Now Pakistan also has options and two poles of new multipolar world have stakes here, therefore, it won't be easy decision for US.
Talibs or no Talibs, if there is fire in Afghanistan then it will particularly affect Pakistan and the region in general, therefore, Regional countries will take appropriate measures to avoid humanitarian crisis / spill over of refugees and their adopted measures will have negative affect on proposed extreme position of US.
 
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