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Saudisation of Pakisan

I am in rush so can't say much but @Armstrong and @Aeronaut , you guys are insisting on mismanagement, poor governace and no regulation of Madrassas, i agree with your point however I still can't get my head around the fact that people are attracted towards Radical Islam in U.K and Europe, Every mosque, every madrasa is regulated but why U.K and France is on the path to radicalism , please answer this
 
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Wah wah wah.... antt karr dee aap nay..... this will disorient the crap out of many.... :omghaha:

I am in rush so can't say much but @Armstrong and @Aeronaut , you guys are insisting on mismanagement, poor governace and no regulation of Madrassas, i agree with your point however I still can't get my head around the fact that people are attracted towards Radical Islam in U.K and Europe, Every mosque, every madrasa is regulated but why U.K and France is on the path to radicalism , please answer this
 
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Problem with most Muslims not knowing and understanding their own religion, is that some insist that the text can only be understood in Arabic, it's great to know multiple languages, however, in a country where we cannot read and write our own, it;s a tall order to expect that we change our culture to accomdate the wishes of this determined Islamist minority.

But why stop here, after all, shall you not also argue that it is Islamic culture for our mothers to share their marital beds with at least 3 other women, or that our prepubescent sisters be married off to elderly gentlemen, or that we have concubines and slaves, etc etc?? If not, why these exceptions??

I would encourage you to take the conversation to VALUES

Prove it to the contrary otherwise? Find me coherent meanings of the Quran in english from any translation?
Do they all say the same thing?

However, even when Islam was being propagated.. there were many who could not read or write.. and many who had differing dialects which meant that some verses had different meanings in them. Which is why people were delegated to go to these tribes with differing dialects and explain to them the meanings as it has been revealed in the Quran.
Which is why you need a teacher/guideline for the teachings of Islam.

Again, your fault is that you keep confusing Arabic culture with Islamic teachings. You may hold a grudge against god for revealing Islam in Arabia.. but the accommodation for each of these acts was made with conditions(that may be read and researched on).
The Values then, was not that Islam allowed concubines and slaves.. but that it adapted to the times(and was revolutionary in its rights for these people) and gradually introduced values and laws that gave people the time to adapt and conform to these ideals..instead of slapping them on and creating a cultural shock.

If that gradual evolution is construe'd as accommodating ancient rituals then it in the vision of the interpreter where this lies.
After all.. If one is too daft to understand the Quran where it says that the times are always changing.. then one will always think that Islam belongs to the 6th century.
It is, and always was an interpretation of guidelines for the times.. be it 850AD or 2013.

Rabb-al-Muslimeen! OH NO BLASPHEMY -- IT IS "Rabb-Al-Arabeen" :omghaha:

Well, it has always been Rabb-al-Alameen... and consequently Rehmat-ul-ill-Alameen..
But once we go down that path of conscientious rejection.. we are prepared to cross all limits to reject thought.
 
Quote Originally Posted by muse View Post
But why stop here, after all, shall you not also argue that it is Islamic culture for our mothers to share their marital beds with at least 3 other women, or that our prepubescent sisters be married off to elderly gentlemen, or that we have concubines and slaves, etc etc?? If not, why these exceptions??
Because none of these things are prescribed in the Quran.

Interesting 4 wives not in Quran? The Sunnah is not Islamic culture?? The beard not sunnah and there fore not "islamic culture"?? Live and learn I guess - must be "Daft"
 
Because the Quran is in Arabic; our namaaz is in Arabic; our wuzoo is in Arabic.
Arabic is an integral part of Islam, in the same way that Sanskrit is a part of Vedic culture and Hebrew is a part of Judaism.

If some people have trouble accepting this fact, it won't change reality.



Because none of these things are prescribed in the Quran.



Nonsense.

Learning Arabic does not make one an Arab, any more than learning English makes one an Englishman.

Just to clarify , Sanskrit is not integral part of Hinduism . In many parts local languages are used for most parts and there is no misunderstanding . For example tamil . They also have their own literature which goes along with translated Sanskrit literature for example Tolkappiyam . And i in no ways am suggesting that Sanskrit is not used at all . Majority of Hindus Don't understand Sanskrit including me . Does that make me any less hindu ( Atheist Hindu i mean ) .

Again Hinduism is a diverse system of thought with beliefs spanning monotheism, polytheism, panentheism, pantheism, monism, atheism, agnosticism, gnosticism among others but that is another topic .
 
Challo daffa karo. I think there is no point to do, or to say any further.

Best policy, leave all of this to the Almighty. One day either him or some very powerful nation will teach us a befitting lesson. Then we can all say, "everything happens with the permission of Allah, the master of universes"
 
By the Way, could we have the conversation we are having, if we lived in "islamic culture"?? Maybe that Baywatch secularism has VALUES we should value, that is if we think there is value in us living where we do and not in "islamic culture"? What do you think?
 
Interesting 4 wives not in Quran? The Sunnah is not Islamic culture?? The beard not sunnah and there fore not "islamic culture"?? Live and learn I guess - must be "Daft"

In what context is it in the Quran? How is the Sunnah to be interpreted? Live and learn.. and not be "daft".

By the Way, could we have the conversation we are having, if we lived in "islamic culture"??

Off with your head and mine for sure! :rofl:

Easily.
As I said.. it seems the very intent for which this thread was started.. seems to be to this man in the middle... a quest for confrontation of the extreme sort from both sides.
Perhaps I should step off and call up Zarvan.. You gentlemen seem more geared for that as compared to intellectual debate.
 
I see that Saudization is complete. No point discussing this any further. Or ever after today. I think we shall all have to abide the new laws of Wahabistan. :cheers:
 
No, not Zarvan - that's too serious a threat Sir -- it's just talk, be thankful that you can do this without being charged with blasphemy, without losing your head - silly Baywatch secularism
 
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Perhaps I should step off and call up Zarvan.. You gentlemen seem more geared for that as compared to intellectual debate.

Intellectual debate is logical. Religion is a set of beliefs. The two domains do not mix well, since using logic to attempt to influence anyone's beliefs is bound to be an exercise in futility.
 
Intellectual debate is logical. Religion is a set of beliefs. The two domains do not mix well, since using logic to attempt to influence anyone's beliefs is bound to be an exercise in futility.

Sadly.. at the end.. that is my greatest challenge..
 
I am in rush so can't say much but @Armstrong and @Aeronaut , you guys are insisting on mismanagement, poor governace and no regulation of Madrassas, i agree with your point however I still can't get my head around the fact that people are attracted towards Radical Islam in U.K and Europe, Every mosque, every madrasa is regulated but why U.K and France is on the path to radicalism , please answer this

The same reason why the IRA was able to recruit so many of theirs from a seemingly progressive & educated society !

The same reason why Neo-Nazism still exists in a country like Germany of all places !

No religious, social, economic or political belief system has a monopoly on 'violence' but all of them, as History has taught us, have a grave propensity for abuse just by virtue of them being 'belief systems' !
 
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