Saudi-Pakistan Military Ties Getting Stronger

[Ahriman]

Do you hold any materialistic evidence where you can back-up this claim?

A simple search on Google will lead you to big piles of evidence, actually wait a minute, you don't need to go that far PDF will do.

But they're working together, right? I kind of smell some sort of supremacy with the bidding rhetoric.

I don't know about that, that might have something to do with your own perceived understanding.

Just as much as the Iranian Gov't feels a slightly insecure every time their next-doors introduce a new defense system into their arsenal.

Lol actually Mullahs have been insecure for past 35 years, buying weapons doesn't really change anything, again if its really against Iran, and based on what I have read here it seems to be, then its just a real big overkill.

Not true, some procurements took place in the late 90s.

Lol like what? Several second-hand Mig-29s?! :O Beside three Kilo submarines which are not being overhauled by Russians there has been no significant military purchase by Iran.

I admire you for acknowledging static fact. But this will probably take the entire nation of Iran to get it into the heads of their Gov't.

I'm a very realistic person, lying to oneself doesn't solve problems. Anyway, I'm sorry I didn't understand this part, please be more elaborate.

Maintaining the hyper self-defensive edge is all what matters. As for the expenditures, KSA is just like the rest of the top 20 world's most defense-spending state.

My point is that Saudi has long outgunned Iran, since after the Mullahs took power, so if the reason for buying weapons is really Iran, then its a really big overkill. But I'm afraid that is actually not the case, I think Iran is being used as an excuse, a bogeyman if you will.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

A simple search on Google will lead you to big piles of evidence, actually wait a minute, you don't need to go that far PDF will do.

Kindly, provide us with materialistic, official evidence, backed with concrete facts. I can Google it all day long and won't find a thing. I don't wish to see articles though.

Lol actually Mullahs have been insecure for past 35 years, buying weapons doesn't really change anything, again if its really against Iran, and based on what I have read here it seems to be, then its just a real big overkill.

That's a great acknowledgement! But if procuring and running con-joined projects are supposed to be nothing, then I wonder, what the real thing is.

Lol like what? Several second-hand Mig-29s?! :O Beside three Kilo submarines which are not being overhauled by Russians there has been no significant military purchase by Iran.

New MiGs, T-72, AVs, Helis, and so on.

I'm a very realistic person, lying to oneself doesn't solve problems. Anyway, I'm sorry I didn't understand this part, please be more elaborate.

I meant that I hope the Iranian Gov't understands the core difference in this equation and all.

My point is that Saudi has long outgunned Iran, since after the Mullahs took power, so if the reason for buying weapons is really Iran, then its a really big overkill. But I'm afraid that is actually not the case, I think Iran is being used as an excuse, a bogeyman if you will.

Overkilling self-defensive machine is needed. And no, Iran isn't everything, if that's what you're saying.

A simple search on Google will lead you to big piles of evidence, actually wait a minute, you don't need to go that far PDF will do.



I don't know about that, that might have something to do with your own perceived understanding.



Lol actually Mullahs have been insecure for past 35 years, buying weapons doesn't really change anything, again if its really against Iran, and based on what I have read here it seems to be, then its just a real big overkill.



Lol like what? Several second-hand Mig-29s?! :O Beside three Kilo submarines which are not being overhauled by Russians there has been no significant military purchase by Iran.



I'm a very realistic person, lying to oneself doesn't solve problems. Anyway, I'm sorry I didn't understand this part, please be more elaborate.



My point is that Saudi has long outgunned Iran, since after the Mullahs took power, so if the reason for buying weapons is really Iran, then its a really big overkill. But I'm afraid that is actually not the case, I think Iran is being used as an excuse, a bogeyman if you will.

 

[Ahriman]

Kindly, provide us with materialistic, official evidence, backed with concrete facts. I can Google it all day long and won't find a thing. I don't wish to see articles though.

Are you serious? Man, this is only a forum, nothing too serious. If we want to do it that way then I can also ask you to provide sources for your every single sentence, anyway, even if you are looking for official evidence you can find plenty online. Even from Saudi Arabian sources.

That's a great acknowledgement! But if procuring and running con-joined projects are supposed to be nothing, then I wonder, what the real thing is.

Are you now talking about Iran or Saudi?

New MiGs, T-72, AVs, Helis, and so on.

Please provide valid, concrete sources for your claims
I already said the Migs are old and too few, Russians are not even willing to sell spare parts to Iran.
T-72s are also old and outdated, Saudi has better armoured units, and Iran and Saudi don't even share land borders, so unless you are trying to go through Kuwait and Iraq they don't even come into the calculation.
Lol what Helis?! They're still using old Cobras.

See, Saudi outgunned Iran since early 1980s.

I meant that I hope the Iranian Gov't understands the core difference in this equation and all.

I already said, Saudi outgunned Iran since 1980s so they knew they're at disadvantage since then, so if the intention was to make them scared it has failed. Anyway, spending billions of dollars is going to put Saudi in disadvantage in the long-run. Buying more weapons = spending more on maintenance.

Overkilling self-defensive machine is needed. And no, Iran isn't everything, if that's what you're saying.

I'm already aware of that, but they make it look that Iran is everything. A Bogeyman that is.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

The nature of the claim you made is upper serious, and that it requires providing evidence as it concerns two countries, of which you made such a serious allegations. It would be too ludicrous to compare your post to any other run-of-the-mill post, and that it would be an insult to human intelligence if you think the other way around.

Are you serious? Man, this is only a forum, nothing too serious. If we want to do it that way then I can also ask you to provide sources for your every single sentence, anyway, even if you are looking for official evidence you can find plenty online. Even from Saudi Arabian sources.



Are you now talking about Iran or Saudi?



Please provide valid, concrete sources for your claims
I already said the Migs are old and too few, Russians are not even willing to sell spare parts to Iran.
T-72s are also old and outdated, Saudi has better armoured units, and Iran and Saudi don't even share land borders, so unless you are trying to go through Kuwait and Iraq they don't even come into the calculation.
Lol what Helis?! They're still using old Cobras.

See, Saudi outgunned Iran since early 1980s.



I already said, Saudi outgunned Iran since 1980s so they knew they're at disadvantage since then, so if the intention was to make them scared it has failed. Anyway, spending billions of dollars is going to put Saudi in disadvantage in the long-run. Buying more weapons = spending more on maintenance.



I'm already aware of that, but they make it look that Iran is everything. A Bogeyman that is.

You ask me to provide infos regarding Iran's weapons purchases after the Revolt, you might want to check these out, find out yourself:

Equipment of the Iranian Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Islamic Republic of Iran Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ahriman]

@Yzd Khalifa

Good, so based on the sources you provided, everything I have written was correct. Iran had no intention of serious military purchase nor would anyone sell to it, only S-300 (which was for defensive purposes and it was torpedoed by Russia). As a matter of fact beside Tor-M1 Iran had no significant military purchase in almost two decades.

And here are my sources for Saudi military spending (they're more reliable than Wikipedia):

Saudi Arabian defence industry placed seventh among the top 10 military spenders - Yahoo Finance UK
Global Defense Budget Seen Climbing In 2014; First Total Increase Since 2009 As Russia Surpasses Britain And Saudi Arabia Continues Its Security Spending Spree
Saudi Arabia tops UK as fourth largest defence spender-report| Reuters
IHS Jane’s: Mideast Military Spending Among the World’s Fastest Growing - Middle East Real Time - WSJ
BAE: US Business Down, Saudi Deals Strengthen Outlook | Defense News | defensenews.com
List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Wikipedia for the heck of it!)
Britain's military standing slides, warns think tank - Telegraph

There are many, many more.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Pakistan dont have anything against Iran also r our neighbor and we own them as Islam same from Iran, CA to Pakistan and also for their help somewhat during wars.

We have no disputes with them like mentioned in the article of an american source but like iran every country is going for her own interests and we r also (Like they r not supporting us on Kashmir issue and giving India space in our backyard). But that doesnt mean nor should be seen as us going against them.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Please stop pettifogging.

The disagreement you and I had was never based on the defense expenditures. It initially was about you claiming that we " control " Pakistan.

As for KSA's defense expenditure, We've already killed this argument last month. You might want to check out the Arab defense section for a reference to it.

@Yzd Khalifa

Good, so based on the sources you provided, everything I have written was correct. Iran had no intention of serious military purchase nor would anyone sell to it, only S-300 (which was for defensive purposes and it was torpedoed by Russia). As a matter of fact beside Tor-M1 Iran had no significant military purchase in almost two decades.

And here are my sources for Saudi military spending (they're more reliable than Wikipedia):

Saudi Arabian defence industry placed seventh among the top 10 military spenders - Yahoo Finance UK
Global Defense Budget Seen Climbing In 2014; First Total Increase Since 2009 As Russia Surpasses Britain And Saudi Arabia Continues Its Security Spending Spree
Saudi Arabia tops UK as fourth largest defence spender-report| Reuters
IHS Jane’s: Mideast Military Spending Among the World’s Fastest Growing - Middle East Real Time - WSJ
BAE: US Business Down, Saudi Deals Strengthen Outlook | Defense News | defensenews.com
List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Wikipedia for the heck of it!)
Britain's military standing slides, warns think tank - Telegraph

There are many, many more.

 

[B@KH]

Syria, Libya, Tunisia, and Iraq have never been considered as allies to KSA. The only ally we lost was Egypt, and now we are back on the scene.

We don't tend to exploit states in favor of political aims. This is called political extortion!

We look forward to working on multiple issues in a manner that suits us both.

We didn't leave you on your own before, and will never do such thing. Just look at the tough measures the EU tries to implement against Egypt last year, and then look at the change in their tones when KSA spoke

I agree as well. Pakistan shall put its interests before everything else. What is of an interest to them is surely an interest of ours .. @Khan_patriot

You guys hate us too

I got your 6 Hypy

Saudi is dependant on usa for its survival and just like Israel soon it will become another liability for usa to keep it. The Saudi is not that strategically important for usa as previous because usa is no more dependent on Oil from the Saudis. usa will not take risk for Saudis as it is taking for Israel. Next 10 years are decisive for Saudis.

Monarchy cannot be prolonged in Saudi due to the condition of the people and plundering of national wealth by few princes. More and More people are awakened in saudi. Minorities in Saudi are no more ready to support the regime. Internal security setup in major cities is Run by Pakistanis to protect monarchy. Therefore any thrust from Outside will expedite their collapse as saudi has overstretched itself in the region.

Situation in yemen, bahrain, Syria, egypt etc. is not in favour of saud and it is a sign of their declining influence.

Therefore alliance with Saudi is a Big Gambling and Risks for Pakistan.

For Saudis, Pakistan is their Last Card. I do not think Pakistan ultimately will risk and try protect the falling Monarchs in saud.

 

[DV RULES]

Lakh de lanat...... sleeping with the enemy.....

Son, We have not permanent allies and permanent enemies, permanent are only our national interests.

Securing KSA is vital for us by many interests, national and religious point of view but it doesn't mean close eyes from all sides of relation.

 

[Sinnerman108]

I see the ayatullahs of Pakistan are throwing up a real tantrum looking at things.

Sigh ....

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Saudi is dependant on usa for its survival and just like Israel soon it will become another liability for usa to keep it. The Saudi is not that strategically important for usa as previous because usa is no more dependent on Oil from the Saudis. usa will not take risk for Saudis as it is taking for Israel. Next 10 years are decisive for Saudis.

Over the last 20 years the Saudis did everything on their own to secure their country, I don't understand what do you mean by being dependent on an X or Y state, just as much as I can't understand why would Israel count on an X or Y state to guarantee its survival.

As for oil, the US imports less than %8 of its oil from KSA, they can cut it off and it won't harm them in anyway, there is no point for suggesting that the US can only buy oil from KSA. The relations both countries maintain go far beyond oil.

Monarchy cannot be prolonged in Saudi due to the condition of the people and plundering of national wealth by few princes

Before jumping into such conclusions you might need to conduct a few researches:

KSA Economy News & Discussions
GDP per capita, HDI, military spending etc. in the GCC (statistics and maps)
GCC States Economy & Development

Minorities in Saudi are no more ready to support the regime.

The only people identifying themselves as a minority are the Saudi Arabian Shias. Their community is divided in terms of political views. The majority of them don't share the same notion you laid out.

Internal security setup in major cities is Run by Pakistanis to protect monarchy.

There is no such thing as setting-up an internal security. I'm sorry but the Saudis won't trust anyone but themselves, barely.

Therefore any thrust from Outside will expedite their collapse as saudi has overstretched itself in the region.

I'm not ready yet to predict that Iran is willing to commit suicide if that's the thrust you're referring to.

Situation in yemen, bahrain, Syria, egypt etc. is not in favour of saud and it is a sign of their declining influence.

How would you measure civil unrest elsewhere then? What's taking place in Syria is a genuine uprising, Yemen had its own spring already, and the Bahrainis got rid off the terrorists long time ago.

Therefore alliance with Saudi is a Big Gambling and Risks for Pakistan.

In case you didn't notice, Pakistan has been an ally of KSA for more than half a century. You seem to be suggesting that this alliance is going under its way this year

For Saudis, Pakistan is their Last Card. I do not think Pakistan ultimately will risk and try protect the falling Monarchs in saud.

We don't tend to this of Pakistan this way. And we managed to take care of ourselves prior to the foundation of the Islamic Republic.


I'm sorry but you thoughts appear to motivated by sectarianism, you aren't good enough, honest enough, and that just is something you earned.


@JUBA @al-Hasani @Arabian Legend

Saudi is dependant on usa for its survival and just like Israel soon it will become another liability for usa to keep it. The Saudi is not that strategically important for usa as previous because usa is no more dependent on Oil from the Saudis. usa will not take risk for Saudis as it is taking for Israel. Next 10 years are decisive for Saudis.

Monarchy cannot be prolonged in Saudi due to the condition of the people and plundering of national wealth by few princes. More and More people are awakened in saudi. Minorities in Saudi are no more ready to support the regime. Internal security setup in major cities is Run by Pakistanis to protect monarchy. Therefore any thrust from Outside will expedite their collapse as saudi has overstretched itself in the region.

Situation in yemen, bahrain, Syria, egypt etc. is not in favour of saud and it is a sign of their declining influence.

Therefore alliance with Saudi is a Big Gambling and Risks for Pakistan.

For Saudis, Pakistan is their Last Card. I do not think Pakistan ultimately will risk and try protect the falling Monarchs in saud.

 

[Hyperion]

Tameez say naam lo apnay Great Lord Ayatullah The Emperor ka!

I see the ayatullahs of Pakistan are throwing up a real tantrum looking at things.

Sigh ....

 

[Malik Usman]

The objectives of the agreements will not be public......In my guess......
Saudi Pilots will get Training in Pakistan, how to handle on board warheads with fighter planes and other aspects...
Same way Pakistani Pilots will also mutually get benefit by flying Saudi F-15 or other Apache Class Helis they got from US.

 

[B@KH]

It is not the picture of monarchy. Monarchy is not going to prevail for another decade in Saudi. Therefore it is risk of Isolation for countries which are Lackey and allied to monarchs. while I already mentioned that usa is no more dependent on Saudi oil and in next decade it will hardly buy oil from Saudi.

Saudi monarchs have interfered in many countries including Syria, Yemen, Egypt, Bahrain etc. Terror monsters are Fed by the Saudi monarchs. Terrorism is a gift from monarchs that is spread in the entire body of muslim ummah.

Pakistan too has been the main target of Saudi Terror during the past 3 decades. Therefore sooner or Later things are going to change in favour of Nations. The Pandora Box of Terror will open some day and it will definitely hurt Saudi monarchs.

Saudi can keep its place in muslim world by adopting democracy and respecting the Islamic holy sites and structures that it bulldozed during past decades.

Over the last 20 years the Saudis did everything on their own to secure their country, I don't understand what do you mean by being dependent on an X or Y state, just as much as I can't understand why would Israel count on an X or Y state to guarantee its survival.
As for oil, the US imports less than %8 of its oil from KSA, they can cut it off and it won't harm them in anyway, there is no point for suggesting that the US can only buy oil from KSA. The relations both countries maintain go far beyond oil.
Before jumping into such conclusions you might need to conduct a few researches:
KSA Economy News & Discussions
GDP per capita, HDI, military spending etc. in the GCC (statistics and maps)
GCC States Economy & Development
The only people identifying themselves as a minority are the Saudi Arabian Shias. Their community is divided in terms of political views. The majority of them don't share the same notion you laid out.
There is no such thing as setting-up an internal security. I'm sorry but the Saudis won't trust anyone but themselves, barely.
I'm not ready yet to predict that Iran is willing to commit suicide if that's the thrust you're referring to.
How would you measure civil unrest elsewhere then? What's taking place in Syria is a genuine uprising, Yemen had its own spring already, and the Bahrainis got rid off the terrorists long time ago.
In case you didn't notice, Pakistan has been an ally of KSA for more than half a century. You seem to be suggesting that this alliance is going under its way this year
We don't tend to this of Pakistan this way. And we managed to take care of ourselves prior to the foundation of the Islamic Republic.
I'm sorry but you thoughts appear to motivated by sectarianism, you aren't good enough, honest enough, and that just is something you earned.

 

[B@KH]

The objectives of the agreements will not be public......In my guess......
Saudi Pilots will get Training in Pakistan, how to handle on board warheads with fighter planes and other aspects...
Same way Pakistani Pilots will also mutually get benefit by flying Saudi F-15 or other Apache Class Helis they got from US.

The objective of the Mafia controlled Agreements cannot be made Public.

Saudi is Begging Pakistan to support in Syria. It wants that pakistan train syrian terrorists on Pakistani soil. Saudi Policies in Syria are met with Failure. Bandar bin Sultan is recently disassociated with Syrian policy and replaced by another prince by the Kings Decree. USA itself is now taking care of the syrian issue and plans for spring offensive to topple syrian government.

secondly Saudi wants to use Pakistan against Islamic IRAN.

rest are petty items only to fill up the pages.