Saudi Arabia, Zionism, Peace and the Palestinian Cause

[Yaduveer]

Can any level-head pakistani member teach me , what is zionism ?

 

[Mosamania]

Where King Abdullah "failed" is in sending Saudi students to USA or for that matter anywhere in the West. Other "Muslim" countries (even Iran) does the same, but that does not mean any such move is wise. USA has shown how much it "loves" Muslims and Arabs in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen and elsewhere. I would have hoped at least some wealthy countries' leaders in the "Muslim world" would have sufficient intellect to initiate some joint project.

Let us take the case of KAUST. This is just an import from USA. The admission requirements, the curriculum, most of the faculty, the recruitment process and many other processes either lack transparency or follow Western customs. Could not Saudis have asked Egyptians, Algerians, Moroccans and other knowledgeable Arabs and Muslims to come in, form a committee and devise a plan that suited Saudi society more?

Do you realize what negative impacts the 50,000+ Saudi students in USA and other students in the West would have on Saudi society when they import Western immorality to Saudi shores after living in the immoral West for many years?

KAUST is by far the jewel of our Education effort. Yeah it is true the Education process is imported from the US but you have to agree with me the US system is by far the best. There is nothing wrong in taking cultures from other civilizations and integrating them into your own. Islamic Empires of the past absorbed Roman and Persian cultures to boost their own and perfect their society. And quite frankly this is the way to go now. Sometime in the past we went from going forward to backwards and now we are trying to go forward again. Completely shutting yourself and putting your hands in your ears and screaming "NO NO NO LA LA LA LA" is a stupid act. The US is a Technological and an Educational giant and we need to absorb as much Tech and Education from them as we can.

Let me tell you something. You see Al-Anduls (Current Spain) was the Technological and Educational powerhouse of the world Europeans would send students there to study at these Universities Students there would get the knowledge and translate the books there into their own language and teach it in their countries. This practice was the main reason why Europe got so far Technologically and kicked away its dark age. Right now we are in our own version of our own Dark Age. what we need to do is to do the same tactic used by the Europeans of that age to kick out our dark age.

 

[fd24]

When the Saudi government reshuffled all the high ranking positions "There was a lot of sacking from 2005-2008 with a lot of people kicked out of the country for good you see. All the previous lawmakers are now housed in their respective country of allegiance (Mostly US and UK). Even though I did not reply to your post directly I was hoping my other posts were sufficient.

Yes in the past there was some serious F***ed up $hit going on and I admit that whole heartedly and if I could apologize for the past I would however I consider the past to be a different country and not the same one I live in right now. Is the government still supporting these things?? The only "Evidences" seem to be are conspiracy theories. However are there people from Saudi Arabia supporting terrorism in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan I have to say yes there is which are merely the remnants of the previous age which is long gone (Relatively speaking). Now terrorists mostly rely on money sold from drugs and Credit Card thievery because their previous source is drying up.

I take my hat off to you for your sincere honesty Mosa. I pray that what you say about recent events regarding KSA are true. I love the Saudi people and the land - i pray it gets the leadership it deserves.

 

[Desert Fox]

When the Saudi government reshuffled all the high ranking positions "There was a lot of sacking from 2005-2008 with a lot of people kicked out of the country for good you see. All the previous lawmakers are now housed in their respective country of allegiance (Mostly US and UK). Even though I did not reply to your post directly I was hoping my other posts were sufficient.

Yes in the past there was some serious F***ed up $hit going on and I admit that whole heartedly and if I could apologize for the past I would however I consider the past to be a different country and not the same one I live in right now. Is the government still supporting these things?? The only "Evidences" seem to be are conspiracy theories. However are there people from Saudi Arabia supporting terrorism in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan I have to say yes there is which are merely the remnants of the previous age which is long gone (Relatively speaking). Now terrorists mostly rely on money sold from drugs and Credit Card thievery because their previous source is drying up.

Thank you Mosa for providing your input, i can agree that your country has come a long way and still has some work to be done with regards to eradicating those in your country who have supported and continue to support Salafi extremists in non-Arab Muslim countries, however Mosa you have only addressed half of my post.

Here i will post the other half of my previous post which you didn't address:

"Why should countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakstan, Uzbekistan, Malaysia, Indonesia and other non-Arab Muslim countries have enmity towards Israel and Iran for the sake of Arabs/Saudi Arabs??

You can do whatever you want with your oil, you can business deal with india, have fights with Iran and Israel but don't drag others into your conflicts and don't be object if other non-Arab Muslims countries form cordial relations with Israel or Iran. "

 

[Banglar Lathial]

KAUST is by far the jewel of our Education effort. Yeah it is true the Education process is imported from the US but you have to agree with me the US system is by far the best. There is nothing wrong in taking cultures from other civilizations and integrating them into your own. Islamic Empires of the past absorbed Roman and Persian cultures to boost their own and perfect their society. And quite frankly this is the way to go now. Sometime in the past we went from going forward to backwards and now we are trying to go forward again. Completely shutting yourself and putting your hands in your ears and screaming "NO NO NO LA LA LA LA" is a stupid act. The US is a Technological and an Educational giant and we need to absorb as much Tech and Education from them as we can.

Let me tell you something. You see Al-Anduls (Current Spain) was the Technological and Educational powerhouse of the world Europeans would send students there to study at these Universities Students there would get the knowledge and translate the books there into their own language and teach it in their countries. This practice was the main reason why Europe got so far Technologically and kicked away its dark age. Right now we are in our own version of our own Dark Age. what we need to do is to do the same tactic used by the Europeans of that age to kick out our dark age.

It is not as straightforward as that. Europeans and Westerners wish it were the case but it is simply not as easy as that. Remember that during the early days of the West's illegal invasion of Iraq, there was rampant anti Islamic propaganda by the West and their illiterate brigades would even (wrongly) comment that Muslims have produced nothing and so on. Then, when the Islamic Glden Ages were mentioned as a counter, they would say Muslims have not developed anything in so and so many centuries. When it was mentioned that there was no indigenous Western civilization to begin with, all their so called developments were borrowed from the Muslim world, that is when they came up with these fabricated stories in their "scholarly" articles that Muslim civilization only borrowed from Persian and Romans. What did the Romans even develop?

Secondly, USA is hardly "the best" in any contest involving any scientific subject, and all their best students and researchers are foreigners. As you can see, it is only the Anglo-Western propaganda machinery that publishes and creates these rankings which show their own education system in excessively good light. They have even created an aura of invincibility around the Nobel Prize which the ignorant masses wrongly believe to be a hallowed award that must be from an infallible entity. That's how gullible the Western masses are. Sadly most nonwesterners are even more gullible to believe these Jewish-media propaganda.

Japan is a technological and educational giant. How much did Saudi Arabia import from Japan in its education sector? How much from Russia? How from Iran or any other Muslim country that is developing at a fast clip? When it comes to Iran, your enmity with Iran takes precedence, but when it comes to USA (which has shown its love for Arabs and Muslims in Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan very well), you want to import every thing from USA because (supposedly) they are a technological giant.

When oil prices hit $147 per barrel and US$ was plunging like a lead bucket through thin air, it was Saudi and Gulf Arab leaders' unwise decision to back the US dollar that saved it. That is an immeasurable act of treachery to the Muslim Ummah unless you believe your leaders are ignorant enough to not know what they have done. Even most of your economic and financial analysts at Sovereign Wealth Funds and Banks are from the West, or Western (English) educated citizens of former British colonies.

Saudis and wealthy Arab countries could have done so much better had there been wiser leaders. It's terribly disappointing and very sad for the Ummah that you continue to support the West.

 

[Yeti]

It is not as straightforward as that. Europeans and Westerners wish it were the case but it is simply not as easy as that. Remember that during the early days of the West's illegal invasion of Iraq, there was rampant anti Islamic propaganda by the West and their illiterate brigades would even (wrongly) comment that Muslims have produced nothing and so on. Then, when the Islamic Glden Ages were mentioned as a counter, they would say Muslims have not developed anything in so and so many centuries. When it was mentioned that there was no indigenous Western civilization to begin with, all their so called developments were borrowed from the Muslim world, that is when they came up with these fabricated stories in their "scholarly" articles that Muslim civilization only borrowed from Persian and Romans. What did the Romans even develop?

Secondly, USA is hardly "the best" in any contest involving any scientific subject, and all their best students and researchers are foreigners. As you can see, it is only the Anglo-Western propaganda machinery that publishes and creates these rankings which show their own education system in excessively good light. They have even created an aura of invincibility around the Nobel Prize which the ignorant masses wrongly believe to be a hallowed award that must be from an infallible entity. That's how gullible the Western masses are. Sadly most nonwesterners are even more gullible to believe these Jewish-media propaganda.

Japan is a technological and educational giant. How much did Saudi Arabia import from Japan in its education sector? How much from Russia? How from Iran or any other Muslim country that is developing at a fast clip? When it comes to Iran, your enmity with Iran takes precedence, but when it comes to USA (which has shown its love for Arabs and Muslims in Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan very well), you want to import every thing from USA because (supposedly) they are a technological giant.

When oil prices hit $147 per barrel and US$ was plunging like a lead bucket through thin air, it was Saudi and Gulf Arab leaders' unwise decision to back the US dollar that saved it. That is an immeasurable act of treachery to the Muslim Ummah unless you believe your leaders are ignorant enough to not know what they have done. Even most of your economic and financial analysts at Sovereign Wealth Funds and Banks are from the West, or Western (English) educated citizens of former British colonies.

Saudis and wealthy Arab countries could have done so much better had there been wiser leaders. It's terribly disappointing and very sad for the Ummah that you continue to support the West.

Romans invented alot they were the the first people to build arches into big buildings and aqueducts. As for Arabs most of their maths come from Indians like Zero and decimal system.

 

[lem34]

"Why should countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakstan, Uzbekistan, Malaysia, Indonesia and other non-Arab Muslim countries have enmity towards Israel and Iran for the sake of Arabs/Saudi Arabs??

That's what i was trying to get at earlier. Why should our idiots that we call leaders make enemies of countries like Israel when clearly Saudis if not openly certainly surreptitiously collude with Israel and more than collude with Israelis are complicit with Zionists. Israel and Pakistan have no axe to grind

 

[500]

The purpose of this thread is that alone. Not about my views on Pakistan recognizing Israel. I will at some time or other start a thread on why and under what circumstances I think Pakistan should recognize Israel and go into detail.

For now a little bit off topic I hope the Mods will indulge me. Pakistan is one of the largest Muslim countries in the world and is armed with Nukes. Pakistan recognizing Israel is a prize that Israelis would appreciate. I am not saying that we should just recognize Israel without some concessions on their part. We could link our recognition with Israel accepting a two state solution, guarantees for our holy sites, and also a demand that they act neutral and do not support India in any designs that India may have over Pakistan. The fact that a number of Arab countries openly recognize Israel, the fact that even Saudis in the background are thick as thieves with Zionists why should Pakistan not explore its own options on how to deal with Israel. The other difference with other Muslim countries recognizing Israel is that I think we not only need to be sincere to the Jews but seen to be sincere.

You mention that you are worried about Pakistani media and political leaders being manipulated. Why? We already are being manipulated by Zionist. We have been dealing with America for decades. Who do you think makes foreign policy for Americans in the Middle East and our neighbourhood?? Not familiar with AIPAC???

At least what I am suggesting is honest transparent and pragmatic.

Two first demands, they are already done. As for third, but sorry Israel cant afford it. Betraying our good partner and losing one billion rapidly growing market - we cant afford it.

But glad to see you are searching peace solution. I am sorry for calling you a jihadist.

 

[lem34]

most of their maths come from Indians like Zero and decimal system.

Of course that would be modern Pakistan and India Yeti lol

 

[Sasquatch]

You do realize that the second most common Military medal in our military is Chinese right? And that we have send troops by the thousands to China, Russia and USA to learn right?? Also we send Physicists and Engineers to China and Russia regarding military subjects more than we send to the west right?? Right now our policy is about what benefits "KSA" most not what benefits country X or country Y most.

We have more Trade with China than we do the US. We have signed more military co-operations with Russia and China than we did with any western nation recently right?? Of course such info did not pass you by and it is understandable as I stated earlier KSA does not see it has to prove anything to anyone but the Leaders of the countries which are fully aware of all those things.

We have good trade and military relations however Saudi-China relations are not at the level of USA-Saudi Relations. Saudi-China relations have a long way to go before they reach the level of the relationship between China and Pakistan.

 

[Yeti]

Of course that would be modern Pakistan and India Yeti lol

In fact the Indus Valley Civilization which is now in Pakistan and parts of India was more advanced than Egypt and other places.

The ancient Indus systems of sewerage and drainage that were developed and used in cities throughout the Indus region were far more advanced than any found in contemporary urban sites in the Middle East and even more efficient than those in many areas of Pakistan and India today.

But we are going way off-topic

 

[Banglar Lathial]

Romans invented alot they were the the first people to build arches into big buildings and aqueducts. As for Arabs most of their maths come from Indians like Zero and decimal system.

You are wrong but do not derail this thread. Start a new thread if you want to be proved wrong.

 

[Mosamania]

It is not as straightforward as that. Europeans and Westerners wish it were the case but it is simply not as easy as that. Remember that during the early days of the West's illegal invasion of Iraq, there was rampant anti Islamic propaganda by the West and their illiterate brigades would even (wrongly) comment that Muslims have produced nothing and so on. Then, when the Islamic Glden Ages were mentioned as a counter, they would say Muslims have not developed anything in so and so many centuries. When it was mentioned that there was no indigenous Western civilization to begin with, all their so called developments were borrowed from the Muslim world, that is when they came up with these fabricated stories in their "scholarly" articles that Muslim civilization only borrowed from Persian and Romans. What did the Romans even develop?

Secondly, USA is hardly "the best" in any contest involving any scientific subject, and all their best students and researchers are foreigners. As you can see, it is only the Anglo-Western propaganda machinery that publishes and creates these rankings which show their own education system in excessively good light. They have even created an aura of invincibility around the Nobel Prize which the ignorant masses wrongly believe to be a hallowed award that must be from an infallible entity. That's how gullible the Western masses are. Sadly most nonwesterners are even more gullible to believe these Jewish-media propaganda.

Japan is a technological and educational giant. How much did Saudi Arabia import from Japan in its education sector? How much from Russia? How from Iran or any other Muslim country that is developing at a fast clip? When it comes to Iran, your enmity with Iran takes precedence, but when it comes to USA (which has shown its love for Arabs and Muslims in Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan very well), you want to import every thing from USA because (supposedly) they are a technological giant.

When oil prices hit $147 per barrel and US$ was plunging like a lead bucket through thin air, it was Saudi and Gulf Arab leaders' unwise decision to back the US dollar that saved it. That is an immeasurable act of treachery to the Muslim Ummah unless you believe your leaders are ignorant enough to not know what they have done. Even most of your economic and financial analysts at Sovereign Wealth Funds and Banks are from the West, or Western (English) educated citizens of former British colonies.

Saudis and wealthy Arab countries could have done so much better had there been wiser leaders. It's terribly disappointing and very sad for the Ummah that you continue to support the West.

Wither you agree with it or not. Western societies do have pretty good science to their name. All the stuff Japan is manufacturing have been invented previously in the west and only being perfected in Japan. I went to school with someone who is currently studying Electrical Engineering in Tokyo (I am extremely envious of him ) I have stated before people please stop holding us hostage to our past. Our previous leaders have F***ed up greatly in the past and it is harder to fix things than to ruin them. Our currency is pegged to the Dollar that is true we have been moving into establishing our own currency a combined GCC currency but we have struggled to do so because Oman pulled out for mysterious reasons. And UAE wants the central Bank in Dubai while we want it in Riyadh.

When I said we took Roman and Persian cultures I meant that of establishing a system of government and Education something Arabic people of the past did not know how to do.

 

[Yeti]

You are wrong but do not derail this thread. Start a new thread if you want to be proved wrong.

I am not wrong and you about to get owned on a thread which I will make just for you

 

[Banglar Lathial]

Wither you agree with it or not. Western societies do have pretty good science to their name. All the stuff Japan is manufacturing have been invented previously in the west and only being perfected in Japan. I went to school with someone who is currently studying Electrical Engineering in Tokyo (I am extremely envious of him ) I have stated before people please stop holding us hostage to our past. Our previous leaders have F***ed up greatly in the past and it is harder to fix things than to ruin them. Our currency is pegged to the Dollar that is true we have been moving into establishing our own currency a combined GCC currency but we have struggled to do so because Oman pulled out for mysterious reasons. And UAE wants the central Bank in Dubai while we want it in Riyadh.

When I said we took Roman and Persian cultures I meant that of establishing a system of government and Education something Arabic people of the past did not know how to do.

When these Western educated Saudis (hundred thousands) arrive in Saudi Arabia, do you realize what catastrophic immorality will be imported as well? Japan only learnt as much from the West as the West learnt from the Muslim world in the past. The number of Saudi students in USA alone dwarfs the number of Saudi students in Japan. There is no Japanese version of KAUST in Saudi Arabia or elsewhere in the Gulf. Those are just examples and there are many more examples.

Not only are your currencies pegged to the dollar (Except Kuwaiti dinar) but your leader King Abdullah saved the dollar from collapsing which in itself was a huge act of treachery to the Arab and Muslim world. If there is a wealthy robber who wants to rob Mr X's home, kill his family members and do unimaginable things to them but Mr. X wants to strengthen relations with the robber because the robber is wealthy, how would you describe Mr. X? Would you consider Mr. X as having any honour, integrity?

You are well aware of what USA has done in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia elsewhere in the Muslim world. There is no doubt in my mind they are enemies. May I ask, what secret information of strategic importance have the 100,000 Saudis learnt from the West?

Will Saudi Arabia be allowed to build ICBM, Nuclear bombs or anything that would allow Saudi Arabia to exceed the West in strength? No. Then, what is the use of so called "good science" in the West to Saudis?

---------- Post added at 04:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:26 AM ----------

I am not wrong and you about to get owned on a thread which I will make just for you

Stop making childish statements that just "own" you. Create the thread and do not derail this one.