Saudi Arabia, Zionism, Peace and the Palestinian Cause

[Desert Fox]

When oil prices hit $147 per barrel and US$ was plunging like a lead bucket through thin air, it was Saudi and Gulf Arab leaders' unwise decision to back the US dollar that saved it. That is an immeasurable act of treachery to the Muslim Ummah unless you believe your leaders are ignorant enough to not know what they have done. Even most of your economic and financial analysts at Sovereign Wealth Funds and Banks are from the West, or Western (English) educated citizens of former British colonies.

Saudis and wealthy Arab countries could have done so much better had there been wiser leaders. It's terribly disappointing and very sad for the Ummah that you continue to support the West.

I have to disagree with you here as well as with other points you brought up in your post (regarding Romans, Persians, etc).

First of all, i would like to make it clear (that is if the obvious truth hasn't hit you yet) that there is no such thing as "Ummah", and Mosa has himself pointed this out many times in other threads.

In recent times Saudis have shown that they aren't responsible for other Muslim countries and their conflicts.

While non-Arab Muslim countries like Pakistan have shown their dedication to protect their so called "brothers" of the Arab countries and have chosen to stand by the Arab Cause against the Jewish State of Israel, the Saudis as well as other Arabs have done the opposite, in fact cordial relations between india and the so called Arab "brothers" is a well known fact. From Yasir Arafat who called Indira Ghandi his sister (the same lady responsible for breaking East Pakistan) to many other Arab leaders and Arabs in general have never supported Pakistan with regards to the Kashmir conflict, the demolishing of Babri Mosque, and instead have built strong relations with india and continue to build upon these relations.


Now my concern isn't what the Saudi leadership does with regards to Palestine/Israel conflict, or the $30 bln deals with American along with the billions of dollars worth of deals with india, my concern is why does it concern them if we, the non-Arab Muslim countries, who have no dispute with Israel (or Iran), who have no conflicting interest with Israel (or Iran), establish relations with the Jewish State of Israel (or Iran)???

 

[Banglar Lathial]

I have to disagree with you here as well as with other points you brought up in your post (regarding Romans, Persians, etc).

First of all, i would like to make it clear (that is if the obvious truth hasn't hit you yet) that there is no such thing as "Ummah", and Mosa has himself pointed this out many times in other threads.

In recent times Saudis have shown that they aren't responsible for other Muslim countries and their conflicts.

While non-Arab Muslim countries like Pakistan have shown their dedication to protect their so called "brothers" of the Arab countries and have chosen to stand by the Arab Cause against the Jewish State of Israel, the Saudis as well as other Arabs have done the opposite, in fact cordial relations between india and the so called Arab "brothers" is a well known fact. From Yasir Arafat who called Indira Ghandi his sister (the same lady responsible for breaking East Pakistan) to many other Arab leaders and Arabs in general have never supported Pakistan with regards to the Kashmir conflict, the demolishing of Babri Mosque, and instead have built strong relations with india and continue to build upon these relations.


Now my concern isn't what the Saudi leadership does with regards to Palestine/Israel conflict, or the $30 bln deals with American along with the billions of dollars worth of deals with india, my concern is why does it concern them if we, the non-Arab Muslim countries, who have no dispute with Israel (or Iran), who have no conflicting interest with Israel (or Iran), establish relations with the Jewish State of Israel (or Iran)???

It seems clear that you have a distinct point of view regarding world issues. There is a Muslim Ummah as long as there are Muslims in the world. The point is Saudi leaders have betrayed the Ummah consistently and one notable act of betrayal was backing US$ when it was about to collapse, nobody around the world was backing it. We know fully well what USA has done in Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan, Somalia, elsewhere.

Indira Gandhi or any other Indian could not have broken apart "East Pakistan" if "West Pakistan" itself was not responsible. You should learn to bear the responsibilities of your leaders' mistakes. Bangladeshis fought for Pakistan as late as 1965 against India. In 1967, Bangladeshi pilot Saif Ul Azam was the best performing pilot from then "Pakistan", which no West Pakistani pilot has been able to match so far in its history.

Turkey has relations with "Israel", Saudis have not interfered there. I have never heard of Saudis stopping Pakistanis from having strong relations with "Israel" to be frank. As for relations with India, plz stop your hypocrisy. When Pakistan cuts ALL diplomatic relations with India, then you can point your fingers at Arabs. Pakistanis dance to the tune of Indian music and relate more to Indians than Arabs, so why should Arabs cut relations with India at all when no Muslim country (especially Pakistan, which has the biggest problems with India) has not cut relations with India?

 

[FriendOfPakistan]

Saudi Arabia could have easily establish a car industry 30 or even 40 years ago. All it requires is a contract with a foreign firm to set up an assembly plant, and at least after 1973 SA had plenty of cash to buy that. And the problem of workers would have been resolved the same as today: foreign workers, at least to begin with. There is no excuse for not having done that earlier. Iran did that in the 1960s, when the price of oil was insignificant - and this was almost 50 years ago.

20 years ago we wouldn't have dreamed of making cars in our country.

 

[Mosamania]

When these Western educated Saudis (hundred thousands) arrive in Saudi Arabia, do you realize what catastrophic immorality will be imported as well? Japan only learnt as much from the West as the West learnt from the Muslim world in the past. The number of Saudi students in USA alone dwarfs the number of Saudi students in Japan. There is no Japanese version of KAUST in Saudi Arabia or elsewhere in the Gulf. Those are just examples and there are many more examples.

Not only are your currencies pegged to the dollar (Except Kuwaiti dinar) but your leader King Abdullah saved the dollar from collapsing which in itself was a huge act of treachery to the Arab and Muslim world. If there is a wealthy robber who wants to rob Mr X's home, kill his family members and do unimaginable things to them but Mr. X wants to strengthen relations with the robber because the robber is wealthy, how would you describe Mr. X? Would you consider Mr. X as having any honour, integrity?

You are well aware of what USA has done in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia elsewhere in the Muslim world. There is no doubt in my mind they are enemies. May I ask, what secret information of strategic importance have the 100,000 Saudis learnt from the West?

Will Saudi Arabia be allowed to build ICBM, Nuclear bombs or anything that would allow Saudi Arabia to exceed the West in strength? No. Then, what is the use of so called "good science" in the West to Saudis?

---------- Post added at 04:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:26 AM ----------



Stop making childish statements that just "own" you. Create the thread and do not derail this one.

Your views are too extreme. These are the types of views that I wish to die out from my country. Categorizing countries as "Infidel countries" and "Muslim countries" is bad. You see in the past Muslims Empire did not invade out of creating more land and wealth it invaded nations that oppressed the people who chose to embrace Islam. Have you not wondered why Persia were taken out and Rome were taken out (They used to burn alive in public and torture till death anyone who embrace Islam) but not China? China always had a freedom of religion policy and during the Times of Islamic Empires (The true ones) so did.

There is no such a thing as teaching an Engineer and a Physicist to a certain extent and that's it. Once you teach them the Physics and Math they can use it to do anything including ICBMs. The one who pegged the Riyal to the Dollar was not Abdullah it was Faisal. What Abdullah did was to close State bank accounts and make the Saudi Central bank the only one responsible for our currency. What King Abdullah did was print a lot of currency and extract a lot of Oil thus devaluing the Dollar at the same time. If it was true that we hold the US economy by the Balls as some posters here suggests then if you haven't noticed US economy is going down the drain very fast. China and Saudi Arabia are the biggest holders of US debt that should say something. What I find it weird by some posters is that when China hold a lot of the US debt bonds they cheer for China but when Saudi Arabia is doing the same thing it is branded "Traitor".

 

[FriendOfPakistan]

SA THE INDUSTRIAL POWERHOUSE of the middle east ?
SA THE INDUSTRIAL POWERHOUSE of the Arab World ?
Are you saying SA is more industrialized than Egypt, Turkey, or Iran ?

20 years ago we wouldn't have dreamed of being the Industrial powerhouse of the Arab world and the middle east.

 

[Mosamania]

Saudi Arabia could have easily establish a car industry 30 or even 40 years ago. All it requires is a contract with a foreign firm to set up an assembly plant, and at least after 1973 SA had plenty of cash to buy that. And the problem of workers would have been resolved the same as today: foreign workers, at least to begin with. There is no excuse for not having done that earlier. Iran did that in the 1960s, when the price of oil was insignificant - and this was almost 50 years ago.

And if you read my previous posts you will have a satisfactory explanation as for why.

---------- Post added at 01:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 AM ----------

SA THE INDUSTRIAL POWERHOUSE of the middle east ?
SA THE[/U] INDUSTRIAL POWERHOUSE of the Arab World ?
Are you saying SA is more industrialized than Egypt, Turkey, or Iran ?

Not IS. But Inshallah WILL be. That is the ambition.

 

[Roybot]

Your views are too extreme. These are the types of views that I wish to die out from my country. Categorizing countries as "Infidel countries" and "Muslim countries" is bad. You see in the past Muslims Empire did not invade out of creating more land and wealth it invaded nations that oppressed the people who chose to embrace Islam. Have you not wondered why Persia were taken out and Rome were taken out (They used to burn alive in public and torture till death anyone who embrace Islam) but not China? China always had a freedom of religion policy and during the Times of Islamic Empires (The true ones) so did.

Yeah right.

Anyways what about the instances when one Muslim empire invaded another Muslim empire?

 

[Mosamania]

Yeah right.

Anyways what about the instances when one Muslim empire invaded another Muslim empire?

Between brackets I put on "The true ones" for a reason.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

Saudi Arabia could have easily establish a car industry 30 or even 40 years ago. All it requires is a contract with a foreign firm to set up an assembly plant, and at least after 1973 SA had plenty of cash to buy that. And the problem of workers would have been resolved the same as today: foreign workers, at least to begin with. There is no excuse for not having done that earlier. Iran did that in the 1960s, when the price of oil was insignificant - and this was almost 50 years ago.

Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Arab countries could have done so much more for themselves if they had wiser leaders who did not rely on the infidel Westerners who have shown their "love" for Arabs and Muslims in Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan and elsewhere very clearly.

 

[Roybot]

Between brackets I put on "The true ones" for a reason.

Can you give me some example when a Muslim empire invaded some other empire/nation/land, just to ensure that people who embrace Islam aren't prosecuted?

 

[Bukhari.syed]

We should end the fighting and problems among each other and should try to work for the greater cause--"Palestine Cause"

 

[Banglar Lathial]

Your views are too extreme. These are the types of views that I wish to die out from my country. Categorizing countries as "Infidel countries" and "Muslim countries" is bad. You see in the past Muslims Empire did not invade out of creating more land and wealth it invaded nations that oppressed the people who chose to embrace Islam. Have you not wondered why Persia were taken out and Rome were taken out (They used to burn alive in public and torture till death anyone who embrace Islam) but not China? China always had a freedom of religion policy and during the Times of Islamic Empires (The true ones) so did.

There is no such a thing as teaching an Engineer and a Physicist to a certain extent and that's it. Once you teach them the Physics and Math they can use it to do anything including ICBMs. The one who pegged the Riyal to the Dollar was not Abdullah it was Faisal. What Abdullah did was to close State bank accounts and make the Saudi Central bank the only one responsible for our currency. What King Abdullah did was print a lot of currency and extract a lot of Oil thus devaluing the Dollar at the same time. If it was true that we hold the US economy by the Balls as some posters here suggests then if you haven't noticed US economy is going down the drain very fast. China and Saudi Arabia are the biggest holders of US debt that should say something. What I find it weird by some posters is that when China hold a lot of the US debt bonds they cheer for China but when Saudi Arabia is doing the same thing it is branded "Traitor".

There is no double standards in my assessment. If holding American bonds is treachery for the Saudis, then it is no good for the Chinese. It is as clear as it gets. If you do not believe in the Quran and Sunnah, then there is not much that can be done over the Internet. Otherwise, you know very well that USA and the West are infidels and they hate the Muslim world to the core. I hope you already know very well what they have done to Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan (South Sudan), Afghanistan, Indonesia (East Timor), and elsewhere.

You are wrong when you say that studying engineering would allow you to build ICBMs. You can not design and build computer chips by studying biochemical engineering. Saudis or other Muslims will never be allowed to study "sensitive" subjects and will never be allowed to build weapons systems that can actually threaten the West. That is why your leaders purchased missiles from China because USA or the West would not sell them to you. By then, at most, your leaders should have realized that USA is no friend of Saudi Arabia. How can they be a friend of Saudi Arabia if they make open assurances that "Israel" will always retain qualitative edge in the weapons department? No matter whether such assurances are true or false, that they make such assurances is clear proof that Saudi Arabia is worth nothing in their eyes and they view "Israel" as more important.

 

[Desert Fox]

It seems clear that you have a distinct point of view regarding world issues. There is a Muslim Ummah as long as there are Muslims in the world. The point is Saudi leaders have betrayed the Ummah consistently and one notable act of betrayal was backing US$ when it was about to collapse, nobody around the world was backing it. We know fully well what USA has done in Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan, Somalia, elsewhere.

Then in that case my point proven, there is no "Muslim Ummah", there's only National interests/self interests.

Indira Gandhi or any other Indian could not have broken apart "East Pakistan" if "West Pakistan" itself was not responsible. You should learn to bear the responsibilities of your leaders' mistakes. Bangladeshis fought for Pakistan as late as 1965 against India.

The above has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. I only brought up the example of indo-Arab brotherly relations, you can save the rest of your post for the relevant thread.

In 1967, Bangladeshi pilot Saif Ul Azam was the best performing pilot from then "Pakistan", which no West Pakistani pilot has been able to match so far in its history.

He was a great pilot, but to say there were no other pilots as good him just hilarious at best. I can name pilots who were just as good. But then again, this has nothing to do with this thread.

Turkey has relations with "Israel", Saudis have not interfered there.

Turkey is not a Islamic country, its a Secular country, they are also in NATO and have an independent policy which is not influenced by Saudis.

I have never heard of Saudis stopping Pakistanis from having strong relations with "Israel" to be frank.

Whether or not if they did or not, only one way to find out, and i'm sure the Saudis will consider Pakistan as a betrayer to the "Islamic cause" to give back the Palestinian Arabs their land., for betraying Al-Aqsa mosque.

As for relations with India, plz stop your hypocrisy. When Pakistan cuts ALL diplomatic relations with India, then you can point your fingers at Arabs.

Pakistan's diplomatic relations with india are not really that significantly strong, in fact Pakistan's relations with india can't progress unless india resolves the Kashmir issue, which thay don't want to and instead have massed 700,000 troops in Kashmir.

Pakistanis dance to the tune of Indian music and relate more to Indians than Arabs,

Not all Pakistanis, this goes to show you have very little knowledge with regards to Pakistan and its people. Different parts of Pakistan can associate itself with different countries, and neither was Pakistan once a part of some Arab country the way it was a part of india (for more than 1,000 years) which is why there are more cultural similarities between eastern part of Pakistan with northwestern india.

so why should Arabs cut relations with India at all when no Muslim country (especially Pakistan, which has the biggest problems with India) has not cut relations with India?

I never said Arabs should cut relations with india and as i have already said, Pakistan's delicate and insignificant relations with india are not even on the level of indo-Arab relations and can neither be considered significant!

My only concern is that Pakistan has made a unnecessary enemy out of Israel for the sake of Arabs who want to invest billions in our enemy.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

Can you give me some example when a Muslim empire invaded some other empire/nation/land, just to ensure that people who embrace Islam aren't prosecuted?

This thread is about Saudi Arabia, Zionism etc. Do not divert the thread. Create a new one if you like.

 

[Mosamania]

Can you give me some example when a Muslim empire invaded some other empire/nation/land, just to ensure that people who embrace Islam aren't prosecuted?

Khulafa Rashidun, Umayyid, Abassyid, Saladin to name a few.

Romans used to throw Muslims in burning olive oil in public as punishment. Persians used to "cleanse them with fire" in public. Before Muahammad (PBUH) took Makkah Meccans used to peal the skin and then crucify anyone who embraced Islam.