Saudi Arabia: World Islamic body pushes global blasphemy law

[Juice]

Wrong, that isn't an insult. The "shahadah" is the foundation of the Islamic belief, & a declaration of faith. Only a retard would feel insulted by that. Keep in mind that the God of the Quran is the same as the God of Israel. It's true that every religion has its own unique teachings that disagree with the teachings of others, but if we were to consider every minor variation an insult, there would be no peace on Earth until humanity settles for one religion alone. Muslims simply do not want the last Prophet (may peace be upon him) to be mocked or slandered by anyone. Generally, people accept criticism of religion only when it's constructive & respectful.

You kind of brought up the problem in a nutshell. You said muslims don't want the "last prophet" slandered. None but muslims consider him to be the "last prophet," therefore are not slandering the "last prophet."

The question is, true form according to who?

Will the insulting of Pastafarianisim be punishable by death

The problem with blasphemy laws is what everyone belives is the absolute truth and what everyone else belives are evil lies that must be punished.

How dare you post pics of the holy one in front of non-believers....where is your embassy?

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

You kind of brought up the problem in a nutshell. You said muslims don't want the "last prophet" slandered. None but muslims consider him to be the "last prophet," therefore are not slandering the "last prophet."

You are overemphasizing the term "last Prophet", I used that term to refer to the individual Muslims consider to be the last Prophet. To put it simply, what I meant was that we don't want Prophet Muhammad to be mocked or slandered. It makes absolutely no difference to Muslims if non-Muslims do not consider Muhammad to be the last prophet. After all, everyone has their own religion & their own beliefs.

 

[Pride]

Exactly, Muslims believe in all Prophets, thus they can not mock the sacred figures of other Abrahamic religions. I don't know anyone that mocks the sacred figures of pagan religions either, but then again; most Muslims in my opinion are unaware of sacred figures in pagan religions. The only thing that people do mock sometime is the religious practices of others. What I mean by that is that I have seen people make fun of odd practices of other religions.

What about so "sensitive" muslims have to say about Dharmic religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism or other religions/ideologies like Baha'i, Taoism or confusicism. The whole south asia is based on Swords by some great Muslim warriors. Should we go ahead and kill them from history being blasphemous to one's religions?

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

What about so "sensitive" muslims have to say about Dharmic religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism or other religions/ideologies like Baha'i, Taoism or confusicism. The whole south asia is based on Swords by some great Muslim warriors. Should we go ahead and kill them from history being blasphemous to one's religions?

Huh? Elucidate your post.

Personally, I don't agree with having the death penalty for blasphemers, & I think it's time religious scholars should discuss this issue & reach some sort of a consensus.

 

[Pride]

The problem with many Muslims in current scenario have some "Superiority Complex" they see the issues which are happening against them and rest everything is a Big Denial or it is what is written in Holy Quran. They deny what so ever did by their ancestor or done currently but when they face the heat they are ready to die for jihad. Be it Pakistan and Bangladesh, Minority treatment is pathetic currently but they concern about riots happened in 1992/2002 in India. They deny what Mughals or islamic rulers did in past they deny, they deny is there were Islam-Christian wars. They get happy if Pakistan is made by breaking British India only and that for some religion's profits but they don't recognize Israel as that has been bifurcated Muslim's territory.

I have read those Surah/ayat in holy Qurans "literally" which talks about Killing for non-believers though I have seen multiple explanation with modifying it. Muslims are not ready to modify this as these are the words from God so the Blasphemy starts . Hypocrisy indeed.

 

[Pride]

Huh? Elucidate your post.

Personally, I don't agree with having the death penalty for blasphemers, & I think it's time religious scholars should discuss this issue & reach some sort of a consensus.

ok so more elobaration, here is Surah 9 verse 5 literal explanation for you.
http://quran.com/9/5

"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

Now it is blasphemous for Dharmic religion then why not we stand against all Muslims and Holy Quran? Please dont talk about interpretation as Salman Rushdie has its own version of "Satanic Verses" and "Ayatollah Khomeini" had its own.

 

[Bang Galore]

Wrong, that isn't an insult. The "shahadah" is the foundation of the Islamic belief, & a declaration of faith. Only a retard would feel insulted by that. Keep in mind that the God of the Quran is the same as the God of Israel.

No one said it was an insult. It was being pointed out that such a claim would constitute blasphemy (if such concept existed) to all the religions of India.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

The problem with many Muslims in current scenario have some "Superiority Complex" they see the issues which are happening against them and rest everything is a Big Denial or it is what is written in Holy Quran. They deny what so ever did by their ancestor or done currently but when they face the heat they are ready to die for jihad. Be it Pakistan and Bangladesh, Minority treatment is pathetic currently but they concern about riots happened in 1992/2002 in India. They deny what Mughals or islamic rulers did in past they deny, they deny is there were Islam-Christian wars. They get happy if Pakistan is made by breaking British India only and that for some religion's profits but they don't recognize Israel as that has been bifurcated Muslim's territory.

You are referring to the treatment of non-Muslims in the Islamic Empires of the Sub-Continent right? Isn't it obvious that there was no perfect empire, & that some leaders turned out to be good whereas others turned out to be bad? For instance; religious minorities weren't harassed under the rule of certain caliphs, but that does not imply that every caliph was equally competent throughout the history of various dynasties that claimed the caliphate. I don't give a crap about any riot that took place in India. I am very proud of my country's independence & there is absolutely no need for you to discuss Pakistan's independence here. Leave that topic out of this discussion & stop trolling.

I have read those Surah/ayat in holy Qurans "literally" which talks about Killing for non-believers though I have seen multiple explanation with modifying it. Muslims are not ready to modify this as these are the words from God so the Blasphemy starts . Hypocrisy indeed.

Don't you mean multiple translations? Muslims never modify the original Arabic verses of the Quran. The translation of verses may vary sometimes depending upon the translator's skill, ability, & proficiency in classical Arabic. If you were to ask 2 people to translate a paragraph in English in to your language, I doubt they would ever come up with exactly the same translation. There are bound to be minor differences.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

No one said it was an insult. It was being pointed out that such a claim would constitute blasphemy (if such concept existed) to all the religions of India.

The post being referred to is quoted below.

You insult other religion/Gods when you say La ilaha ill'allah (there is no God worthy of worship except Allah). So come down from the moral horse please..

India wasn't mentioned at all in the above post, & that member does claim that the Islamic declaration of belief insults other religions.

Read my post #59 again, it discusses why every minor variation between religions shouldn't be considered an insult.

 

[Bang Galore]

The post being referred to is quoted below.
India wasn't mentioned at all in the above post, & that member does claim that the Islamic declaration of belief insults other religions.

Fair enough. Let me modify my point to suggest that in terms of blasphemy laws (if applicable to other religions vis-a vis Islam) that would constitute an insult but not just as an assertion of belief. Doesn't matter if India was mentioned or not, it's the "other religions" that is moot.

Read my post #59 again, it discusses why every minor variation between religions shouldn't be considered an insult.

Hardly a minor variation is it? That's pretty much fundamental to your faith & those who believe it.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

ok so more elobaration, here is Surah 9 verse 5 literal explanation for you.
Surat At-Tawbah [9:5] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????

"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

You may read that verse here along with a number of other verses preceding it & coming after it. If I am not mistaken these verses refer to the events preceding the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah. The Quran does not justify pointlessly killing non-Muslims or any other innocent people. According to Islamic point of view, Muslims should cease fighting if the other party desires peace.

Now it is blasphemous for Dharmic religion then why not we stand against all Muslims and Holy Quran? Please dont talk about interpretation as Salman Rushdie has its own version of "Satanic Verses" and "Ayatollah Khomeini" had its own.

I am not Shia, neither am I Iranian, so I don't really care about Ayatollah Khomeini.

Calling Jesus the son of God is considered wrong & it disagrees with our scripture & beliefs, but we don't kill Christians for claiming that. Every religion disagrees with other religions, as I said earlier; Muslims simply do not want Prophet Muhammad to be mocked or slandered.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Fair enough. Let me modify my point to suggest that in terms of blasphemy laws (if applicable to other religions vis-a vis Islam) that would constitute an insult but not just as an assertion of belief. Doesn't matter if India was mentioned or not, it's the "other religions" that is moot.

Hardly a minor variation is it? That's pretty much fundamental to your faith & those who believe it.

Do all other religions consider it blasphemous to claim God is one? Keep in mind that there are other monotheistic religions like Judaism. Most organized religions consider other religions to be false. By your logic, the only way to avoid blasphemy is for all of humanity to settle for one religion. That isn't going to happen any time soon. Everyone is free to believe whatever they want, & people need to respect claims made by other scriptures even if they don't believe in them. The point you need to understand is that Muslims don't care if you or your scripture considers our beliefs as blasphemous. The only thing many Muslims consider blasphemous is insults made by individuals aimed at ridiculing or slandering the Prophet. Another important point to note is that most Muslims generally do not insult holy figures in other religions.

 

[Pride]

You may read that verse here along with a number of other verses preceding it & coming after it. If I am not mistaken these verses refer to the events preceding the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah. The Quran does not justify pointlessly killing non-Muslims or any other innocent people. According to Islamic point of view, Muslims should cease fighting if the other party desires peace.

I have read all verses of Suraah 9 and others as well and even the link is same. I hate to read description and context provided as it is as that contains one's belief and perspective. Whole Suraah 9 is full of discrimination against non-believer for e.g. if you take 5 it talks about slaying of polyathiests/pagans, if you take 28 then it discriminates non-believers and stop them to visit holy places, if you take 29 then it talkes about taxes (jaziya) on non-believer while 30 mocks the believes about Jews/Chrisitians. Hence the biggest Blasphemy starts from here.

I am not Shia, neither am I Iranian, so I don't really care about Ayatollah Khomeini.

Calling Jesus the son of God is considered wrong & it disagrees with our scripture & beliefs, but we don't kill Christians for claiming that. Every religion disagrees with other religions, as I said earlier; Muslims simply do not want Prophet Muhammad to be mocked or slandered.

You are talking about Suraah 9 verse 30 here. You dont believe Jesus/Ezra the son of god hence you are violating primary rule of their belief and if they say that they dont believe that either Quran is Holy or Prophet Mohammad did the rightful and they are making mockery of your religion then why so offensive?

 

[Pride]

You are referring to the treatment of non-Muslims in the Islamic Empires of the Sub-Continent right? Isn't it obvious that there was no perfect empire, & that some leaders turned out to be good whereas others turned out to be bad? For instance; religious minorities weren't harassed under the rule of certain caliphs, but that does not imply that every caliph was equally competent throughout the history of various dynasties that claimed the caliphate. I don't give a crap about any riot that took place in India. I am very proud of my country's independence & there is absolutely no need for you to discuss Pakistan's independence here. Leave that topic out of this discussion & stop trolling.

You dont care about what is happening riots in India but then you are violating Ummah concept. You want to skip again those points which were in favor of Muslims be it their rightful nation. This is shear hypocrisy nothing else.

Don't you mean multiple translations? Muslims never modify the original Arabic verses of the Quran. The translation of verses may vary sometimes depending upon the translator's skill, ability, & proficiency in classical Arabic. If you were to ask 2 people to translate a paragraph in English in to your language, I doubt they would ever come up with exactly the same translation. There are bound to be minor differences.

I agree to that part and that is why I want to read literal meaning and if you think that I have to read Arabic for the same I can give my shot for that as well but "those" minor variations may be there but still Crux is same in many of the translation be it done by Muslims or other beliefs.

 

[Bang Galore]

Most organized religions consider other religions to be false.

Only the Abrahamic religions do but that is exactly my point. Why ask for protection from blasphemy for your religion when your religion considers others as false? Double standards, don't you think?