Saudi Arabia Has Devastated Pakistan’s History of Religious Tolerance and Diversity

[Indus Pakistan]

Have you ever read Munir Akram Report from 1953? The ruling class were warned of the hell that waited Pakistan if the genie of religion was let loose within the public sphere.

When people want Islamic government they fail to answer which brand of Islam? There are at least dozen brands each of the them prepared to spill blood in a effort to get their version prescribed. It is a recipe for disaster.

When the commission asked the dozen mullahs representing each brand the simple question " define a Muslim?" Each branded Mullah gave a definition which if adopted as the standard would have meant all the other ( 11 ) would have been declared heretics.

Perversely if all definitions from each brand was adopted everybody would end being declared "heretic" and sentanced to death. I guess we would have invited India to carry out the sentance on every Pakistani.

The last man to switch off lights in a empty Pakistan would have to be left to a Hindu. Ain't that madness?

Or we could have "gunfight unto death where each branded mullah's get's his chance to voice his opinion with guns" but then I just realized that is exactly what is happening only the differant brands use their stormtroops to do it.

 

[VCheng]

The ruling class were warned of the hell that waited Pakistan if the genie of religion was let loose within the public sphere.

And then they all worked very hard to make that hell a reality.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

And then they all worked very hard to make that hell a reality.

Being so incompetant they took decades to even get that done ....

 

[Arsalan]

With what you have said, it seems that the main problem is religion.

No it is not, it is the people not following the religion, or, people following the wrong interpretation of religion. Just like fire, is used positively it will provide light in darkness but if in hands of but will burn and cause destruction if in hands of mad man. We have done the same with religion. While it was for everyone to take guidance from, we took it for granted and stopped following its teaching, that is when it was hijacked by some scum mullahs who interpreted it in the wrong way. Now the problem is since we ourselves lack knowledge of our religion we follow what we are being told. There are many scholars and Mullahs preaching true Islam but as you know empty vessel make more noise, it is the stupid scum molivs that get more attention and more coverage thus they bring bad name to the whole community.

Coming back to what we are following, if you by luck get some teacher (molvi) preaching Islam in its true sense that will be great, if however you get to someone who is presenting you with all the wrong ideas a person will have two most plausible options. One he will follow those teaching and will get off track and labeled extremist, second he will revolt, will not bow down to those miss interpreted teachings and again will get off tracked only to be labeled a liberal or secular in this case. For me, both are extremist!! However if you read all this, you will find that the problem was not with religion, religion was not the issue here but the problem was us people who are following the wrong interpretations. Who do not understand the basic teachings of Islam/religion and are being miss led like a herd of sheep.

 

[Levina]

Exactly!!!
No religion will teach to annihilate people of other beliefs, NO RELIGION,,, people may quote here about Jihad and teaching of Jihad in Islambut the dont know the basic concept of Jihad, its types, need for it and the rules to follow. Also at the same time they must remember Hindu worshiping Kali mata and other war gods, Christians wagging wars in name of Christianity for CENTURIES,,, there pope calling for crusades, Jews killing and having hand in killing of prophets in name of there religion. I am taking about the true essence of religion, the core of teachings, yes this aggression and war is part of EACH of these religions but that is not their main teaching or the main calling.It is us, the people killing ourselves, other people in name of religions that never asked us to do so.

Every religion asks it's followers to be compassionate, and today that's the only option we have. Albeit in every religion there's a reference to "reply in kind when attacked", be it Hinduism,Christianity or Islam, as a Hindu I see this as the reason why we do Astra (weapon) pooja.
When I see ppl fighting in the name of religion then I wonder Cui Bono???
Oceans, rivers, ponds and lakes have different names but they all contain water, same way religions might have different names but all the religions have the same purpose and essence.

 

[VCheng]

No it is not, it is the people not following the religion, or, people following the wrong interpretation of religion. ..........

Sir, your previous indicated that all major religions across thousands of years, have been used to murder and mayhem in their name. So where is this "correct" interpretation of any religion that works for peace, given human nature? Does it even exist? Hence my remarks.

Being so incompetant they took decades to even get that done ....

Yes, that may be, but look at the end result. They have finally achieved it.

Every religion asks it's followers to be compassionate, and today that's the only option we have. Albeit in every religion there's a reference to "reply in kind when attacked", be it Hinduism,Christianity or Islam, as a Hindu I see this as the reason why we do Astra (weapon) pooja.
When I see ppl fighting in the name of religion then I wonder Cui Bono???
Oceans, rivers, ponds and lakes have different names but they all contain water, same way religions might have different names but all the religions have the same purpose and essence.

Every religion professes to be noble, but human history shows us clearly that what its follower actually do is quite far from those lofty ideals. Why is that?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

No it is not, it is the people not following the religion, or, people following the wrong interpretation of religion.

You still don't get it do you? Sometimes the most obvious thing is right in front of you but you ignore it.

No, the cure is "true poison" what has been tried thus far was "adulterated poison"

Read the above. What do you think I was trying to convey?

wrong interpretation

May I ask who is going to decide which is the wrong interpretation? If it is you then you are welcome to join the other dozens brands already involved in righting the wrong interpretations. Expect resistance from the rest as they feel your following the wrong interpretation.

Guess what? Your also now invited to the gunfight at the Ok Corrol? Your latest newcomer who has found the "correct and true interpretation".

Good luck to you ....

Yes, that may be, but look at the end result. They have finally achieved it

Who said targets are not achieved in Pakistan?

 

[Arsalan]

Have you ever read Munir Akram Report from 1953? The ruling class were warned of the hell that waited Pakistan if the genie of religion was let loose within the public sphere.

When people want Islamic government they fail to answer which brand of Islam? There are at least dozen brands each of the them prepared to spill blood in a effort to get their version prescribed. It is a recipe for disaster.

When the commission asked the dozen mullahs representing each brand the simple question " define a Muslim?" Each branded Mullah gave a definition which if adopted as the standard would have meant all the other ( 11 ) would have been declared heretics.

Perversely if all definitions from each brand was adopted everybody would end being declared "heretic" and sentanced to death. I guess we would have invited India to carry out the sentance on every Pakistani.

The last man to switch off lights in a empty Pakistan would have to be left to a Hindu. Ain't that madness?

Or we could have "gunfight unto death where each branded mullah's get's his chance to voice his opinion with guns" but then I just realized that is exactly what is happening only the differant brands use their stormtroops to do it.

Again, all this support what i have been saying. The problem was not with Islam, it was with the branding WE people gave to it. Islam (that is Quran and Sunnah) never said to kill deobandis or term Shia kafi or mentioned whether to say Ameen out loud or in heart!! That is what WE people have done so this is OUR fault, not to be blamed on religion. Again, if we get back to basics, IF we start following ISLAM these branding issues will get resolved and that will solve our problems.
For me the problem was when we tried to confined Islam to a particular section of society, to madrassa or molvies, if we all were knew and followed the teachings and know what is asked of us we wont have been miss guided so easily.

 

[VCheng]

May I ask who is going to decide which is the wrong interpretation? If it is you then you are welcome to join the other dozens brands already involved in righting the wrong interpretation. Expect resistance from the reast as they feel your following the wrong interpretation.

Guess what? Your also now invited the gunfight at the Ok Corrol? Your latest newcomer who has found the "correct and true interpretation".

Good luck to you ...

That is exactly why those societies who have learned to keep religion in the private domain, where it belongs, have been able to develop systems of governance that work for all their citizenry. Take a good look around the world today and tell me if I am wrong.

Again, all this support what i have been saying. The problem was not with Islam, it was with the branding WE people gave to it. Islam (that is Quran and Sunnah) never said to kill deobandis or term Shia kafi or mentioned whether to say Ameen out loud or in heart!! That is what WE people have done so this is OUR fault, not to be blamed on religion. Again, if we get back to basics, IF we start following ISLAM these branding issues will get resolved and that will solve our problems.
For me the problem was when we tried to confined Islam to a particular section of society, to madrassa or molvies, if we all were knew and followed the teachings and know what is asked of us we wont have been miss guided so easily.

The problem here is not of branding, or of interpretation. It is the insistence for its imposition society-wide without regard for any diversity. Let people chose what they want to believe, but let systems of governance and social justice be free of religion. Only that works for everyone.

 

[Arsalan]

Every religion asks it's followers to be compassionate, and today that's the only option we have. Albeit in every religion there's a reference to "reply in kind when attacked", be it Hinduism,Christianity or Islam, as a Hindu I see this as the reason why we do Astra (weapon) pooja.
When I see ppl fighting in the name of religion then I wonder Cui Bono???
Oceans, rivers, ponds and lakes have different names but they all contain water, same way religions might have different names but all the religions have the same purpose and essence.

That is it!
The problem is since we think following ones religion will make him/her narrow minded or extremist, we leave the teaching and preaching to be done by a particular group of people, by Molivis or pundits. Now even though there will be a large number who are still honest to there work but there are many who hijack the true essence of religion and present us with a twisted form. Since we think we are modern enough not to indulge in such things, we leave our self and next generations on mercy of these scums.

 

[Levina]

Who ever wrote it. Pakistan government has totally backed out of Saudi Coalition that attacked Yemen and Asked Saudis to stop this Madness-This is a FACT
Shias are a minority in Pakistan but are spread all across country hold significant positions in Government and private organisations are not differentiated at all anywhere. If religious psycos are your standard then god bless you. they spare no one Sunni, Sufi, Ahmadi no one is safe from terrorists. Army is destroying them from roots. When this mess started all world hailed this phenomenon of religiously motivated fighters agaisnt communism. Now they go out of hand they are being controlled.- This is a FACT

Paksitan army is a uniform organsiation with no discrimination amoung sects - This is s FACT
If you believe otherwise come visit Pakistan and see it by yourself.
The last president of Paksitan was a Shiajust a few years back (Asif ali zardari)

The article targets Saudi Arabia more than it targets Pakistan....or so I felt.
I was watching a channel 4 documentary which had shown proof of how Quran was manipulated by this Sunni majority country over the years. Afaik the oldest Quran discovered in Yemen(compiled 70yrs after Prophet's death) uses no dots over the words, which means that the words could have as many as 30 meanings, so there were very high chances of misinterpretation of Quran.

If religious psycos are your standard then god bless you.

Religious psycho???
This was uncalled for, if you resort to personal attacks again on this thread then I'll report your post.

 

[Arsalan]

Sir, your previous indicated that all major religions across thousands of years, have been used to murder and mayhem in their name. So where is this "correct" interpretation of any religion that works for peace, given human nature? Does it even exist? Hence my remarks.

It does!! it surely do. If not so we would have eaten each other by now. There is a reason the world still exist. Also if you look at the history, with all that time passed now, you will see that the reason pope called for crusade was not to sake christanity but to save church and vatican's governance. The situation where some molvis declared Jihad do not call for Jihad, that was do not follow under the true Islamic Jihad. Even in some case where Jihad is justified, have those who have called for it ever explained how to do it? the STRICT set of rules? you ever see ISIS or Taliis explaining that? It is not the religion my friend, it is OUR interpretation that is responsible for all these problems.

 

[VCheng]

It is not the religion my friend, it is OUR interpretation that is responsible for all these problems.

But Sir, isn't any religion exactly, and nothing more than, what its followers interpret it as and practice it? What they do in its name is far more important and evident than what they claim or say.

 

[Arsalan]

You still don't get it do you? Sometimes the most obvious thing is right in front of you but you ignore it.



Read the above. What do you think I was trying to convey?

Well i truly didn't, i am a man of simple words sir, didn't understood the complex dual meaning words from you, sorry! For now, i stand by what i was saying, it is the WRONG interpretation that is causing the problem, not the religion it self. Secularism or liberlism is not the solution to our problems, i don't even have to point to ENORMOUS problems these secular states face. So if you can kindly tell is simpler words what you were saying that might make me understand.

 

[Arsalan]

The problem here is not of branding, or of interpretation. It is the insistence for its imposition society-wide without regard for any diversity. Let people chose what they want to believe, but let systems of governance and social justice be free of religion. Only that works for everyone.

So true, and, a very basic choice in Islam. Quran do not ask you to be a shia or a sunni. That gets us back to the point where i say that if we start following religion to its true essence, we wont have this problem of forcing ones brand on other. People are open to choose as you say and that creates a uniform system of governance and social justice as you asked for