SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[Donatello]

In USA, Gen. Asim Saleem Bajwa stated that Pak has no plan to buy FC-31

I find that funny, that a General would be commenting on the prospects of what the air force would want.

There could be some truth to it......it may not be FC31 since it is all speculation......what is not speculation is the natural and understood fact that PAF will go for a low RCS aircraft in the future and it would be from China.
The reason we are itching to get J-31 is that it features common engine design with our JF-17......RD93/WS13.

 

[Icewolf]

why does pakistan always opt for the option the chinese have rejected. for example the JF-17 is a design the Chinese aren't interested in, pakistan picks it up and takes it same with other projects like Type-98 tank, mbt-3000, F-22 frigates and now the J-31. I think the J-10 has a way better design concept then the J-31, The J-31 seems more like a failed Chinese experiment.

You're right, PAF should go for 7th gen TEJAS, instead of J-31

 

[thrilainmanila]

You're right, PAF should go for 7th gen TEJAS, instead of J-31

typical village mentality exists on this forum, whenever a genuine criticism is aimed against the pakistan armed forces, everyone assumes that person is an indian, first of all get you're head out of your *** and go and get a proper education you retard

 

[thrilainmanila]

the risks of buying this aircraft outweigh the rewards.

 

[Viper0011.]

Type-98 tank, mbt-3000, F-22 frigates and now the J-31. I think the J-10 has a way better design concept then the J-31, The J-31 seems more like a failed Chinese experiment.

I follow the Chinese military development a lot. I am surprised to read your post. Either you don't know what you are talking about or have no clue about design and performance of different platforms.
1) Type 98 is slightly older concept but still not an inferior platform compared to the theater it'll be working in (India vs. Pakistan)
2) MBT 3000 is actually a much better platform. The Chinese really studied Western tank designs and incorporate a lot of design factors in it, specially the benefits of the wide body, angles, armor, etc. It's probably a couple of notches below Leopard in capability and design, but offers (on paper) pretty much everything a latest tank design does.
3) J-10 (X-Lavi) is really a 2.5-3rd generation design (goes back to 1980's and originates from Mirage with added features). With advance electronics, it is considered a 4th gen design like Mirage 2005-N, Gripen, -16 Block 40-50. So its a good platform almost on par with the typical 4th gen platforms. But its not a comparison with the J-31
4) J-31 is a Stealth platform, similar to the JSF (although inferior). The Chinese stole a lot of tech from the US so all that stuff will be added to this jet IMO. Which makes it a much credible platform. What makes you think this is a "failed" Chinese experiment when they will be selling it to a few selected nations at the initial price tag of $ 75-100 million???? That's a LOT of price for a "failed" concept!

 

[thrilainmanila]

I follow the Chinese military development a lot. I am surprised to read your post. Either you don't know what you are talking about or have no clue about design and performance of different platforms.
1) Type 98 is slightly older concept but still not an inferior platform compared to the theater it'll be working in (India vs. Pakistan)
2) MBT 3000 is actually a much better platform. The Chinese really studied Western tank designs and incorporate a lot of design factors in it, specially the benefits of the wide body, angles, armor, etc. It's probably a couple of notches below Leopard in capability and design, but offers (on paper) pretty much everything a latest tank design does.
3) J-10 (X-Lavi) is really a 2.5-3rd generation design (goes back to 1980's and originates from Mirage with added features). With advance electronics, it is considered a 4th gen design like Mirage 2005-N, Gripen, -16 Block 40-50. So its a good platform almost on par with the typical 4th gen platforms. But its not a comparison with the J-31
4) J-31 is a Stealth platform, similar to the JSF (although inferior). The Chinese stole a lot of tech from the US so all that stuff will be added to this jet IMO. Which makes it a much credible platform. What makes you think this is a "failed" Chinese experiment when they will be selling it to a few selected nations at the initial price tag of $ 75-100 million???? That's a LOT of price for a "failed" concept!

I follow the Chinese military development a lot. I am surprised to read your post. Either you don't know what you are talking about or have no clue about design and performance of different platforms.
1) Type 98 is slightly older concept but still not an inferior platform compared to the theater it'll be working in (India vs. Pakistan)
2) MBT 3000 is actually a much better platform. The Chinese really studied Western tank designs and incorporate a lot of design factors in it, specially the benefits of the wide body, angles, armor, etc. It's probably a couple of notches below Leopard in capability and design, but offers (on paper) pretty much everything a latest tank design does.
3) J-10 (X-Lavi) is really a 2.5-3rd generation design (goes back to 1980's and originates from Mirage with added features). With advance electronics, it is considered a 4th gen design like Mirage 2005-N, Gripen, -16 Block 40-50. So its a good platform almost on par with the typical 4th gen platforms. But its not a comparison with the J-31
4) J-31 is a Stealth platform, similar to the JSF (although inferior). The Chinese stole a lot of tech from the US so all that stuff will be added to this jet IMO. Which makes it a much credible platform. What makes you think this is a "failed" Chinese experiment when they will be selling it to a few selected nations at the initial price tag of $ 75-100 million???? That's a LOT of price for a "failed" concept!

the chinese aren't going to buy the J-31 there money is going into the J-20. the J-31 is powered by 2 RD-93 engines, latest stealth planes incorporate TVC, to me this J-31 is just a chinese experiment, it won't attract major buyers. the aircraft has so many unknown factors, radar, engines are probably not on par with top fighters. the leopard was designed in the 1970s the chinese operate better tanks the the mbt-3000 and tbh its not like the pak army needs more tanks. the J-10s design has been compared with the eurofighter and latest version of grippen, the whole idea that the chinese stole US JSF designs and incorporated it into the J-31 is BS. They've probably done it but have invested it into the J-20.

 

[monitor]

the chinese aren't going to buy the J-31 there money is going into the J-20. the J-31 is powered by 2 RD-93 engines, latest stealth planes incorporate TVC, to me this J-31 is just a chinese experiment, it won't attract major buyers. the aircraft has so many unknown factors, radar, engines are probably not on par with top fighters. the leopard was designed in the 1970s the chinese operate better tanks the the mbt-3000 and tbh its not like the pak army needs more tanks. the J-10s design has been compared with the eurofighter and latest version of grippen, the whole idea that the chinese stole US JSF designs and incorporated it into the J-31 is BS. They've probably done it but have invested it into the J-20.

It will be power by WS-15/17 series of engine when those Engine mature RD-93 is interim measures just as for JF-17 will be powered by WS-13 in future if WS can mature enough . In future lets see can they incorporate TVC on J-31 btw J-20 too doesn't have any TVC as of now which is going to use by China it self so your argument of Chinese experiment is not right . Euro fighter or gripen are good fighter but not fifth generation fighter where J-31 degine as a fifth generation fighter .

 

[Storm Force]

J-31 stealth jet gets bad reviews after Zhuhai Airshow flight｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com
This is a chinease report

Its a honest assessment of the J31

poor DATED engine that smokes (all other fifth gen fighters will have TVC engines)

Considered to be too heavy to be a agile dog fighter. A PAK FA or RAPTOR would run circles round it.

PLAAF will not be buying this plane only the J20 WHICH HOUSES all their cutting edge technology

J31 will be acquired by poor countries in chinease sphere of influence ie Pakistan Bangladesh North Korea etc.

READ THE ARTICLE dont kill the messenger.

MY Conclusion

China has made incredible strides with it Fighter technology

China still lacks in key areas over the WEST ie Engine tech sensor fusion and accuracy of weapons

J31 will do well to beat off a meteore equipped aeasa radar rafale/typhoon

WE SHALL SEE HOW IT DEVELOPES OVER NEXT TEN YEARS.

 

[PakEye]

Falcon Eagle FC-31 or J-31 Mystery, Questions, Objections and Lack Of Information

Show of Falcon Eagle FC-31 or J-31
The J-31 "31001" technology demonstrator flies past in a public demonstration at the Zhuhai 2014 Airshow. In addition to generating export interest, Shenyang Aircraft Corporation is looking to get J-31 business from the PLAAF.

J-31 Lands

The J-31 "31001" makes another approach at Zhuhai. The J-31 is still a tech demonstrator at this point, and lacks extras like electro-optical and missile launch warning sensors, as well as likely using a preexisting radar (J-10) at this point.
The J-31 differs from the F-35 in that it has two engines, which in turn reduces its area ruling, making for more efficient supersonic flight, including future supercruise once the J-31 obtains more powerful engines.
FC-31
This up-to-date scale model of the FC-31 (the J-31's export designation) at Zhuhai 2014 shows several important upgrades from "31001", including the installation of a Electro Optical Targeting Sensor (EOTS) pod under the nose (shiny gold fairing).

Stealthiness

FC-31 hasseveral radar cross-section reduction measures, such as clipped wing edges, and revised vertical stabilizers, to reduce reflected radar waves. which have been enhanced for stealth. The new model also has an Infrared Search and Track sensor installed on the underside of its nose, to enable the J-31 to track the heat signatures of enemy aircraft..It also has redesigned, stealth optimized engine nozzles, which suggest that a Chinese 10- to 11-ton thrust engine will ultimately replace the Russian RD-93. Notably, such future engines could allow the J-31 to supercruise, a feature that the F-35 does not have.

New Engines
The stealthy new engine nozzles on the FC-31 model indicate that SAC looks to replace the current RD-93 turbofans. The yet unnamed turbofan engines will each generate about 10 to 11 tons of afterburning thrust, which could enable the J-31 to supercruise.

Next Gen Display
This flight simulator/cockpit avionics display shows state of the art pilot/cockpit interface technology, including a holographic Heads Up Display (HUD), a built in helmet wide display, and multi-functional display screens (not shown) that would show and fuse sensor data, managed communications, as well as firing and controlling weapons.

 

[HRK]

J-31 stealth jet gets bad reviews after Zhuhai Airshow flight｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com
This is a chinease report

Its a honest assessment of the J31

poor DATED engine that smokes (all other fifth gen fighters will have TVC engines)

Considered to be too heavy to be a agile dog fighter. A PAK FA or RAPTOR would run circles round it.

Same concerns were raised against 'F-35' but its there as the 'need for a product' ( lower tier 5 gen aircraft) exists in that part of the world, same is the case here i.e. 'need of a product' similar to it exist here at this part of the world as well, so may be FC-31 in its 'current form' is not up to the mark 'as of now' but may be in next '3-5' years it might show better prospectives to address the demand.

 

[NKVD]

Same concerns were raised against 'F-35' but its there as the 'need for a product' lower tier 5 gen aircraft exist in that part of the world, same is the case here i.e. 'need of a product' similar to it exist here at this part of the world as well, so may be FC-31 in its 'current form' is not up to the mark 'as of now' but may be in next '3-5' years it might show better prospectives to address the demand.

F-35 Was not first Stealth they build. they have fifth gen Prototypes almost decades old they are already ahead of all weather its Radars,sensors, Designs Every thing

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The smoke is non issue----a regular modified RD93 on a JF 17 does not smoke like that----. On a Jf 17---the smoke is there but not like this----black plumes of smoke---and it seemed like coming from one engine.

Secondly----the current engine is just the initial power plant and not the final----the power plant option maybe the RD93A or the one in the current MIG 29's what is it the RD 33! PAF will not go for a Chinese engine just for the sake of it---.

Our concern is not the Raptor but the SU 30 MKI's and Rafales.

The bvr missile is already available----in 5 years possibly the latest version of the SD 10 B will be available----also---. In their final stages now the aesa radars will also be available---all the upto date EW packages would be up and going in 5 years----.

The timing is right for the J31----the Ew packages and weapons are a ready to go---integration will be easier for paf this time around-----and same for the Chinese---.

TVC does not bring anything to the table for paf

 

[Storm Force]

Master Khan.

Re TVC brush off not brining anything.

F22 RAPTOR
J20 CHINA
PAK FA Russia

ALL HAVE TVC ......There is a reason why !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND this notion that ALL WILL WELL IN 5 YEARS is blind faith....

TRY 10 YEARS

 

[Kompromat]

Master Khan.

Re TVC brush off not brining anything.

F22 RAPTOR
J20 CHINA
PAK FA Russia

ALL HAVE TVC ......There is a reason why !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND this notion that ALL WILL WELL IN 5 YEARS is blind faith....

TRY 10 YEARS

Why doesn't F-35 have TVC?

 

[NKVD]

Why doesn't F-35 have TVC?

TVC would add some weight to the F-35. Wouldn't that be countered by increased thrust planned for later models of the F135.
For starters, witness the B model nozzle assembly. Consider. A and C models are single engine/single nozzle aircraft restricted to ceilings well below F-22, and high altitude is where TVC can pay off. TVC on all models F-35 would only impose penalties. Granted, it does sound like a fine idea for C model takeoffs until you consider "roll rate" and rapid loss of lift given single engine and nozzie. 0.02