SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[Rank]

J-31 stealth jet gets bad reviews after Zhuhai Airshow flight｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com
This is a chinease report

Its a honest assessment of the J31

poor DATED engine that smokes (all other fifth gen fighters will have TVC engines)

Considered to be too heavy to be a agile dog fighter. A PAK FA or RAPTOR would run circles round it.

PLAAF will not be buying this plane only the J20 WHICH HOUSES all their cutting edge technology

J31 will be acquired by poor countries in chinease sphere of influence ie Pakistan Bangladesh North Korea etc.

READ THE ARTICLE dont kill the messenger.

MY Conclusion

China has made incredible strides with it Fighter technology

China still lacks in key areas over the WEST ie Engine tech sensor fusion and accuracy of weapons

J31 will do well to beat off a meteore equipped aeasa radar rafale/typhoon

WE SHALL SEE HOW IT DEVELOPES OVER NEXT TEN YEARS.

Good so attack on China they will let you know how much their weapons are accurate lol... and if you still alive after their response... please reply over here about your chinese hardware experince lol

 

[PakEye]

Good so attack on China they will let you know how much their weapons are accurate lol... and if you still alive after their response... please reply over here about your chinese hardware experince lol

after successful debut of FC-31 at Zuhahi air show 2014 some western and indian members feeling heat & jealous they are criticize only for criticism the major part of their criticism are based on partiality they are ignoring that Currently, "31001" is only a technology demonstrator and using available pre exist parts that will be replaced later
Currently, "31001" is a technology demonstrator for SAC's stealth fighter technology. the J-31’s primary mission at Zhuhai has been to hunt for export customers for the J-31 include nations as those looking for less expensive or non-U.S. alternate. Hence it uses preexisting systems, like the Russian RD-93 .

 

[Last Samuri]

Tvc is a relatively new concept.

It gives large powerful angles of attack and instant turn rates that just don't exist in non tvc fighters.

This is why all the latest super fighters have tvc engines

 

[Saifullah Sani]

No qualms about showing J-31 to potential buyers: colonel

As China's J-31 stealth fighter, also known as the FC-31, has been designed primarily for the export market, the country had no qualms about demonstrating the fighter at the Zhuhai Airshow earlier this month, Senior Colonel Xu Yongling of the PLA Air Force has told Guangzhou's Southern Daily.

A test pilot for China's J-10 fighter, Xu said China made use of the biennial airshow to promote its advanced fighter, still in development, to the overseas market. Xu said the J-31 was not developed using a great deal of new technology that the country does not want the public to know about; on the contrary, decision makers in Beijing realized that China should play more important role in the global aircraft market. In addition to its regular client Pakistan, China also envisions selling the fighter to countries in the Middle East, South Asia and Latin America.

Xu said the Chinese fighter carries a significant cost advantage American and Russian competitors. The quality of China's fourth-generation fighters has also improved gradually over time, he added. He believes the design of FC-31 fifth-generation stealth fighters should meet the individual requirements of potential buyers among developing nations.

Xu said the fifth-generation FC-31 has been developed with lessons learned from developing fourth-generation fighters. This is a reason why the Chinese aviation industry was willing to display this aircraft to the public while the Chengdu J-20, the country's first stealth fighter, has still been kept largely under wraps. Xu admitted however that the problem of developing a sufficiently powerful and reliable engine for advanced fighters remains one that China faces as it eyes up the export market.

Xu also said that it is possible the J-31 may serve as a future carrier-based fighter for the PLA, though the navy has not made any decision on this yet and it is unlikely that fourth-generation fighters like the J-15 will be totally replaced by the J-31. It is more likely that both aircraft will serve jointly in the future.

China still needs five years to put this new stealth fighter into production, Xu said.

No qualms about showing J-31 to potential buyers: colonel｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com

 

[Donatello]

Pakistan considers buying 30-40 stealth fighters from China

Pakistan is interested in acquiring a stealth fighter and has expressed interest in the newly unveiled Chinese FC-31. Pakistan is one of several countries interested in the new Chinese fighter - the first stealth aircraft available for export without US or Russian restrictions.

Pakistan is interested in acquiring a stealth fighter and has expressed interest in the newly unveiled Chinese FC-31. thePakistani Dawn publication quoted Minister for Defence Production Rana Tanveer Hussain saying the matter was being discussed with Chinese authorities. According to media reports Pakistan is interested in acquiring 30-40 Shenyang FC-31s, an aircraft developed by China primarily for the export market.

A stealth fighter could provide Pakistan (and China) with limited strike capability within the Indian sub continent, since India currently lacks viable counter stealth radar capability

The export version of the new stealth fighter will be powered by two Russian Klimov RD-93 engines, the same engine that powers the JF-17 Thunder operated by the Pakistani Air Force. Mr Hussain added that Pakistan was also interested in Chinese Z-10 helicopter gunship.

Pakistan considers buying 30-40 stealth fighters from China | Defense Update:

 

[Donatello]

TVC is useless. It doesn't make a stealth aircraft do wonders. Simply because, if you intend on using it in the wvr domain, you are pretty dead already......no point in having stealth then.....look first shoot first.
Secondly, a HOBS missile offer a very high wide angle of attack so even if you pull 15Gs, the missile will come for you.
Same with BVR that can outrun and out turn any 'TVC' equipped fighter.

 

[SQ8]

It's been no mare than 2 months since I joined this forum so what's been here before I don't know & care about, but in this two months I have "encountered" at least 3 "years old" members who were trying to fit WS-15 in JF-17(old can also be a fool's gold). What I know is I have bunch of friends & relatives working in all three branches of Pak defense forces in both fighting & technical categories. So much for "laptop" intellectuals like you

Well, then all your friends and relatives have been feeding you poppycock. So while Laptop intellectuals here(god knows who was trying to fit the WS-15 into where) may be having their guesses, Im guessing tablet intellectuals like you aren't having much luck either.

 

[nomi007]

we must consider F-22 with TOT and J-20 and PAKFA with TOT and presidency of Uganda

chor yar phir tu mind kar jahe ga

 

[Irfan Baloch]

chor yar phir tu mind kar jahe ga

dear looks like I annoyed you. reason for my joke was

the flying ship look alike J-20 is a Chinese specific heavy aircraft with its territories in mind. it doesn't suite our PAF doctrine. J-31 is already a big leap of faith for a force that runs away from 2 engine platforms like a plague.

not only asking for a platform which China wants to hide and keep for itself will be rude but its purchase and running costs will breakdown PAF budget. to cover for whatever it can bring to the table , we got cruise missiles cheers

 

[rockstar08]

its funny to see how indians are crying over Engine issues again and again , and right now J-31 is in initial stage of testing , they are making Engines and stealth fighter , and on the other hand our neighbors are trying their best to sign the rafale deal ... World is appreciating Chinese tech and weapons but our neighbors blinded by jealousy and superiority complex are just living in delusion ...

 

[Viper0011.]

the chinese aren't going to buy the J-31 there money is going into the J-20. the J-31 is powered by 2 RD-93 engines, latest stealth planes incorporate TVC, to me this J-31 is just a chinese experiment, it won't attract major buyers. .

Read your own post. I almost didn't want to answer it as it you are adding things like "money is going into J-20" and "to me this J-31 is a Chinese experiment".....you lost credibility immediately. You are not an expert on the Chinese weapons program nor you are an expert on Chinese military financials. Pulling stuff out of thin air just wastes people's time to respond to imagination based posts.
However, the Chinese have a strategic need. You obviously don't understand how Chinese military works. Outside of its Naval ambitions, it doesn't want to nor it is trying to go compete with the US head to head or jet to jet. It knows it can't. The global power status will still remain to the US military. No doubt about it. Whether India, China, Brazil, Saudia become regional powers or not, they won't challenge the US military globally like the US can. That's a fact. These guys will be limited to their regions ONLY. But of-course posing a THREAT to the US through long range strikes or missiles.

Now having that established, why would China need another twin engined Stealth jet? They might acquire some eventually to be based next to Thailand and all, but it'll be a few. Their goal is invisible strike at long ranges......that's J-20 due to its large body, weapons load and all. They figured that if they can produce a true stealthy platform for strikes, having air to air options are not that important as they have plenty of jets for that, from J-10 to SU series and everything else.

Japan and China, if they go to war, the air to air will be limited due to the distance. There will be some naval confrontation but if the Chinese strikes Japan (or India) without being "seen", that's huge. You take out strike bases, what's left for the other one to retaliate with???
To deal with India's threat immediately or today, they have similar and more fire power on the border in the shape of SU, J-11's, etc, etc which will compete with SU-30's and the likes.

So no need for J-31 strategically. Same situation happened with the JFT. They didn't need JFT as they had J-10 in pipes which is a bigger platform with more range and weapons load. However, to fill the gap in the PAF's case, JFT turned out to be an excellent choice as its cost effective and has a range of capabilities that the PAF never had before in its Mirages, F-7's and A-5's. Plus distance between India and Pakistan is so short that a modernized true 4.5th Gen JFT can easily challenge SU-30 and Rafale with enhanced avionics and missiles. Today's jets may never see each other eye to eye as majority of the kills will be BVR related. So the superior maneuverability in dog fighting may be very limited. Anyone with good avionics and missiles can potentially take down a better enemy.
So this is all strategic, just because a nation doesn't have the need for an expensive jet, doesn't mean its a failed design!

 

[Chak Bamu]

SAC alone and by itself can not run with FC-31. AVIC is the mother of Chinese aviation companies and the one that actually calls the shots. A second stealth program could not have started without their consent. So anyone who thinks that Chinese do not know what they are doing, is deluding themselves. PLAN might or might not order this bird, but SAC needs to make something other than SU series clones after a few years. So, FC-31 is not merely an experiment. It would not have been the show's star at Zuhai show, if it were only an experiment.

 

[SSGPA1]

Pakistan's first priority should be an anti missile system and an anti aircraft system that could counter JSF etc. Next war may be against multiple countries and one or two squadrons of a stealth fighter may not do much. We need SAMs that could give nightmares to the enemies of Pakistan.

 

[SQ8]

Tvc is a relatively new concept.

It gives large powerful angles of attack and instant turn rates that just don't exist in non tvc fighters.

This is why all the latest super fighters have tvc engines

Not the F-35. Because when the F-35 was designed(much after the F-22 and the super fighters) it was found that the cost benefits of TVC versus the ability of most modern close range air to air missiles combined with a helmet mounted sight essentially ensure a kill rate of 90% and above even against super-manoeuvring targets..

Aircraft like the F-22 do more than just use TVC for maneouvers. And today's F-35 can fire a Aim-9X whilst pointing its nose away from say a Su-35 doing cartwheels and "ballet" in the air.. and still blow it out of the sky.
Why?
Because the TVC aircraft is limited by the human condition of withstanding a certain amount of g.. while the missile can do close to 60g. The Russians figured this out earlier as well, their banking on TVC has to do more with the hope that once US aircraft have expended their missiles or missed their first shot..and survived the Russian first shot...they can get in position quicker to kill the American aircraft. Problem with that is that the American air to air combat doctrine specifically avoids the situation of getting into post-stall manoeuvres.. so they wont be fighting at all where the Russian will have the advantage with TVC. Even when they do, today most modern aircraft have Helmet mounted sighting systems for highly agile missiles.. the result is that the first shot usually kills.. and the first shot no longer needs to be made with the aircraft pointing its nose at the other.

Tomorrows air combat, including that in the India Pak arena will be less about turning around in dogfighting and more about getting the first shot of without the other person knowing..and then running away. The IAF knows that already, which is why it did not insist on TVC with the Rafale...and most air displays with the MKI rely on showing off its superior aerodynamics.. and not the rather limited utility of its TVC.

The Red Flag video that is much hated by Indians because it makes the horrible mistake of saying something negative about Indians(regardless of whether it is true or not) and has its inaccuracies.. is not all wrong of the limitations of TVC in combat.

 

[Storm Force]

Oscar.

HMS (helmet mounted sight) is not unique to F35 or USA.

Infact did the Russians not invent this concept first in the mig29 flankers.

HMS is standard in most modern fighters of the 4th gen era.ie su30mki etc.

in which case a su30mki which has both hms & tvc is absolutely lethal