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SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

TVC makes sense for an aircraft the size of F-22, J-20 and T-50 but for F-35 and FC-31, i don't see its merits. Personally i would want to see full spectrum sensor fusion and supercruise in FC-31 if China can bring in a 100kn engine.

Two Type S3-2 technology demonstrators were completed in 2011,laying the foundation for the research and development of the WS12 with TVC and 9800kgf for a thrust-weight ratio of over 9:

S3-2.jpg


Now who in his right mind would seriously think that China would develop the FC-31 without a parallel programme for a new generation of advanced medium-thrust engine?:azn:
 
The fighter looks great and is a stunner with regard to design.
The issues cited fortunately are of engine which can be easily replaced, rectifying the issues.
 
too early to make any judgements / conclusions...
 
[QUOTE="Oscar, post: 6461058, member: 14956]

Unless the Russians or the Chinese come up with a point defence system for aircraft(like CIWS on a ship) based on energy weapons or otherwise. The day of spinning around in circles is fairly limited.
.[/QUOTE]
out turning and spinning out of an energy based weapon would be impossible because the speed will be near light and even a classic CIWS throws so much lead that staying out of range will be only way to escape it.

proponents of F-35 say that its missiles will do all the work, try out turning the Gs pulled by the missiles.
say Aim 9x. that said there are chances where the jets might merge and NATO's philosophy seems to be that such situation never arises. this is the same pitch used by Typhoon, superior speed and missiles, shoot first and leave the battle field immediately. the target can show off with its cobra until its pasted by the missile.
 
Around 10 years for England.. 20 for europe.. and 60 for the world.
That meant that for ten years.. the British had the best in the technology.. and so on.
In this context, it means that the Americans will continue to have their lead in the tech for some time. However, moore's law does apply where certain technological advancements are concerned.. so the Chinese may not have a better laser(unless they can gain it via espionage) but they will have a comparable targeting system.
this is where West is frantically working on. even china claimed a drone kill with it

guns maybe replaced with directed energy weapons once the size of the apparatus can be compacted and its "fuel" requirements can become more efficient. currently it is only housed in a plane of 747 size.
 
Pakistan should look forward to Western system and China as well too. As China still lack modern avionics as we know and still they flying these machines with lack power engines. I, know Euro Typhoon , why Pakistan stop looking towards Europe. Pakistan should have talk with European countries about Euro Typhoon ! rather than putting all sticks in Chines weapons!

It is better to both side weapons China +Europe!

I know Economical issues are with Pakistan too. but still Western Aircraft are still more modern J31.
 
Pakistan should look forward to Western system and China as well too. As China still lack modern avionics as we know and still they flying these machines with lack power engines. I, know Euro Typhoon , why Pakistan stop looking towards Europe. Pakistan should have talk with European countries about Euro Typhoon ! rather than putting all sticks in Chines weapons!

It is better to both side weapons China +Europe!

I know Economical issues are with Pakistan too. but still Western Aircraft are still more modern J31.

May be we are looking towards the KFX project and T50 for training.
 
Korea is Looking towards to his own sustainable and reliable program but it mostly based on western system. Korea is happy to help Pakistani friends in MBT K2 too as it much advance tank. However, fighter KAI KF-X is still progress and Pakistan can be participate in it.
 
Pakistan should look forward to Western system and China as well too. As China still lack modern avionics as we know and still they flying these machines with lack power engines. I, know Euro Typhoon , why Pakistan stop looking towards Europe. Pakistan should have talk with European countries about Euro Typhoon ! rather than putting all sticks in Chines weapons!

It is better to both side weapons China +Europe!

I know Economical issues are with Pakistan too. but still Western Aircraft are still more modern J31.

F-16s are doing fine.
 
Pakistan continues to proceed with improvements to its JF-17 Thunder jet fighter program, but the recent Zhuhai air show also revealed possible longer term ambitions to acquire stealth aircraft, namely the Shenyang FC-31.

According to Pakistan officials at Zhuhai, progress is being made to improve the JF-17’s avionics and software, and to fix a probe.

Kaiser Tufail, analyst, author and former air commodore, said these upgrades may not require the aircraft to be sent back to the factory at Pakistani Aeronautical Complex, Kamra, but could be handled locally at unit level.

“As flight trials with different weapons are getting completed, it is time for hardware and software upgrades. I am not sure if these would be done at unit level or factory level; perhaps the former.”

Though the upgrades are not a radical departure from the Block I standard, Tufail nevertheless has “no doubt that they would improve the operational readiness considerably” for the Air Force.

What the future holds for the fighter is uncertain as details of a Block III variant have not been revealed, and Tufail says at present “no one seems willing to talk about them.”

Similarly, analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said only reasonable speculation can made at present.

“Block-III is conceptual right now but most likely will see an AESA radar, HMD [helmet-mounted display] and some other avionics improvements. I am not sure if the airframe will be further modified for RCS [radar cross-section] reduction or airframe life enhancements. We just have to wait and see,” he said.

The perennial question regarding the JF-17, however, is its hitherto lack of export orders. Shabbir highlights the disruption facing the fighter’s most likely customers, but is still optimistic.

“Many of the countries that are probable JF-17 buyers have had political or financial turmoil but it is highly likely that an order will be won in 2015.”

Nevertheless, Pakistan revealed that a squadron of 18 JF-17s recently took part in a major exercise in western China, which marks the type’s first large-scale deployment.

Meanwhile, although Pakistan’s apparent interest in the FC-31 has caused a stir, Tufail maintains such an aircraft is not required.

“It seems to be a knee-jerk statement without much substance at this point in time,” he said.

“While stealth capability is welcome, the long-range capability that goes with this aircraft may be an overkill for an Air Force that is configured primarily for tactical air support to surface forces,” he said.

“Besides, a concerted strategic bombing campaign to decimate the enemy’s war-fighting capability needs months to achieve results. That option is a non-starter for nuclear-armed belligerents, as much as it is for the rest of the world, which can’t sit back and watch the dangerous escalation,” he added.

“So, I stick to my previously professed contention that it is tactical fighters that we need first and foremost. Two dozen or so stealth fighters seems more of a ‘fashion’ statement.”

He also highlights a perennial concern for Pakistan that may rule out the FC-31; “Who has got the money? Not Pakistan.”

Whether a Pakistani order for the FC-31 will materialize is unclear, though there will be an eventual need to replace the F-16, which is Pakistan’s most potent front-line combat aircraft.

Analyst, author and former Australian defense attaché to Pakistan, Brian Cloughley, said the FC-31 is a likely candidate, but perhaps not for some time.

“It’s being described in some quarters as an export machine, but that is bound to take a long, long time. Certainly there will have to be some sort of replacement for the F-16s, and it won’t be European or Russian, for obvious reasons, so it must be China,” he said.

“I think we can bet on the FC-31.”

Pakistan Continues JF-17 Upgrades, Possible Interest in FC-31 Emerges | Defense News | defensenews.com
 
Pakistan continues to proceed with improvements to its JF-17 Thunder jet fighter program, but the recent Zhuhai air show also revealed possible longer term ambitions to acquire stealth aircraft, namely the Shenyang FC-31.

According to Pakistan officials at Zhuhai, progress is being made to improve the JF-17’s avionics and software, and to fix a probe.

Kaiser Tufail, analyst, author and former air commodore, said these upgrades may not require the aircraft to be sent back to the factory at Pakistani Aeronautical Complex, Kamra, but could be handled locally at unit level.

“As flight trials with different weapons are getting completed, it is time for hardware and software upgrades. I am not sure if these would be done at unit level or factory level; perhaps the former.”

Though the upgrades are not a radical departure from the Block I standard, Tufail nevertheless has “no doubt that they would improve the operational readiness considerably” for the Air Force.

What the future holds for the fighter is uncertain as details of a Block III variant have not been revealed, and Tufail says at present “no one seems willing to talk about them.”

Similarly, analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said only reasonable speculation can made at present.

“Block-III is conceptual right now but most likely will see an AESA radar, HMD [helmet-mounted display] and some other avionics improvements. I am not sure if the airframe will be further modified for RCS [radar cross-section] reduction or airframe life enhancements. We just have to wait and see,” he said.

The perennial question regarding the JF-17, however, is its hitherto lack of export orders. Shabbir highlights the disruption facing the fighter’s most likely customers, but is still optimistic.

“Many of the countries that are probable JF-17 buyers have had political or financial turmoil but it is highly likely that an order will be won in 2015.”

Nevertheless, Pakistan revealed that a squadron of 18 JF-17s recently took part in a major exercise in western China, which marks the type’s first large-scale deployment.

Meanwhile, although Pakistan’s apparent interest in the FC-31 has caused a stir, Tufail maintains such an aircraft is not required.

“It seems to be a knee-jerk statement without much substance at this point in time,” he said.

“While stealth capability is welcome, the long-range capability that goes with this aircraft may be an overkill for an Air Force that is configured primarily for tactical air support to surface forces,” he said.

“Besides, a concerted strategic bombing campaign to decimate the enemy’s war-fighting capability needs months to achieve results. That option is a non-starter for nuclear-armed belligerents, as much as it is for the rest of the world, which can’t sit back and watch the dangerous escalation,” he added.

“So, I stick to my previously professed contention that it is tactical fighters that we need first and foremost. Two dozen or so stealth fighters seems more of a ‘fashion’ statement.

He also highlights a perennial concern for Pakistan that may rule out the FC-31; “Who has got the money? Not Pakistan.”

Whether a Pakistani order for the FC-31 will materialize is unclear, though there will be an eventual need to replace the F-16, which is Pakistan’s most potent front-line combat aircraft.

Analyst, author and former Australian defense attaché to Pakistan, Brian Cloughley, said the FC-31 is a likely candidate, but perhaps not for some time.

“It’s being described in some quarters as an export machine, but that is bound to take a long, long time. Certainly there will have to be some sort of replacement for the F-16s, and it won’t be European or Russian, for obvious reasons, so it must be China,” he said.

“I think we can bet on the FC-31.”

Pakistan Continues JF-17 Upgrades, Possible Interest in FC-31 Emerges | Defense News | defensenews.com

Important points.
 
Pakistan continues to proceed with improvements to its JF-17 Thunder jet fighter program, but the recent Zhuhai air show also revealed possible longer term ambitions to acquire stealth aircraft, namely the Shenyang FC-31.

According to Pakistan officials at Zhuhai, progress is being made to improve the JF-17’s avionics and software, and to fix a probe.

Kaiser Tufail, analyst, author and former air commodore, said these upgrades may not require the aircraft to be sent back to the factory at Pakistani Aeronautical Complex, Kamra, but could be handled locally at unit level.

“As flight trials with different weapons are getting completed, it is time for hardware and software upgrades. I am not sure if these would be done at unit level or factory level; perhaps the former.”

Though the upgrades are not a radical departure from the Block I standard, Tufail nevertheless has “no doubt that they would improve the operational readiness considerably” for the Air Force.

What the future holds for the fighter is uncertain as details of a Block III variant have not been revealed, and Tufail says at present “no one seems willing to talk about them.”

Similarly, analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said only reasonable speculation can made at present.

“Block-III is conceptual right now but most likely will see an AESA radar, HMD [helmet-mounted display] and some other avionics improvements. I am not sure if the airframe will be further modified for RCS [radar cross-section] reduction or airframe life enhancements. We just have to wait and see,” he said.

The perennial question regarding the JF-17, however, is its hitherto lack of export orders. Shabbir highlights the disruption facing the fighter’s most likely customers, but is still optimistic.

“Many of the countries that are probable JF-17 buyers have had political or financial turmoil but it is highly likely that an order will be won in 2015.”

Nevertheless, Pakistan revealed that a squadron of 18 JF-17s recently took part in a major exercise in western China, which marks the type’s first large-scale deployment.

Meanwhile, although Pakistan’s apparent interest in the FC-31 has caused a stir, Tufail maintains such an aircraft is not required.

“It seems to be a knee-jerk statement without much substance at this point in time,” he said.

“While stealth capability is welcome, the long-range capability that goes with this aircraft may be an overkill for an Air Force that is configured primarily for tactical air support to surface forces,” he said.

“Besides, a concerted strategic bombing campaign to decimate the enemy’s war-fighting capability needs months to achieve results. That option is a non-starter for nuclear-armed belligerents, as much as it is for the rest of the world, which can’t sit back and watch the dangerous escalation,” he added.

“So, I stick to my previously professed contention that it is tactical fighters that we need first and foremost. Two dozen or so stealth fighters seems more of a ‘fashion’ statement.”

He also highlights a perennial concern for Pakistan that may rule out the FC-31; “Who has got the money? Not Pakistan.”

Whether a Pakistani order for the FC-31 will materialize is unclear, though there will be an eventual need to replace the F-16, which is Pakistan’s most potent front-line combat aircraft.

Analyst, author and former Australian defense attaché to Pakistan, Brian Cloughley, said the FC-31 is a likely candidate, but perhaps not for some time.

“It’s being described in some quarters as an export machine, but that is bound to take a long, long time. Certainly there will have to be some sort of replacement for the F-16s, and it won’t be European or Russian, for obvious reasons, so it must be China,” he said.

“I think we can bet on the FC-31.”

Pakistan Continues JF-17 Upgrades, Possible Interest in FC-31 Emerges | Defense News | defensenews.com

Pakistan may not want to buy FC-31 but China would like to sell it for PAF flying their birds will give notoriety to the plane.
 
PAF never stated that they will purchase FC-31 or J-31, people only assumed it as CAC has not shown any other 5th gen jet for export and only SAC's bird is pitched for export for now, but who knows what rest in future.
 

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