Saab India Chairman offers Gripen E over MMRCA deal to India

[A.P. Richelieu]

Gripen is auto corrected to the name grippen by apple dictionary ...

You can charge apple 100 million for that ..

For 39 aircrafts 5.4 billion $ , that's @ 150 million per craft roughly

Then in would cost approx 18 - 19 billions for 126 aircrafts for India that's similar to rafale


I hope this calculation is totally wrong for even rough estimate...
I can't even imagine how rafale would cost then...

The contract has not been broken down publicly as far as I know,
but I read that 1,5B$ is maintenance over a long period.

Flyaway cost is them *MAX* 3,9B$ for 36, not 39 aircraft, which is more like $100M/aircraft.
It may also have costs for tooling and other things, which Brazil calculates
will be spread out on a much larger number of aircraft.
This is just speculation on my part though...

It may also include weapons like Meteor etc., again pure speculation.

Still, previous figures of $50M I have seen some years ago, seems far away.

 

[atlssa]

The contract has not been broken down publicly as far as I know,
but I read that 1,5B$ is maintenance over a long period.

Flyaway cost is them *MAX* 3,9B$ for 36, not 39 aircraft, which is more like $100M/aircraft.
It may also have costs for tooling and other things, which Brazil calculates
will be spread out on a much larger number of aircraft.
This is just speculation on my part though...

It may also include weapons like Meteor etc., again pure speculation.

Still, previous figures of $50M I have seen some years ago, seems far away.

Thank you very much... Please let me know if you find any more details.

Rergards

 

[C130]

how accurate is this???

the Gripen and Mig-35 would be a good comparison.

 

[atlssa]

@A.P. Richelieu

please, can you send me a private message? I would like to ask you a favor.

 

[sancho]

how accurate is this???

the Gripen and Mig-35 would be a good comparison.

Per hour costs are often calculated with different parts included, but this calculation is broadly showing the difference between the fighters. Earlier this year French government figures showed Rafale (Air Force version) costs at around $13.000 per hour.
Why would you want to compare the Mig 35 with the Gripen? A twin engine fighter which is known for being fuel and maintenance hungry in comparison to a single engine western fighter? There shouldn't be big surprises.

 

[C130]

Per hour costs are often calculated with different parts included, but this calculation is broadly showing the difference between the fighters. Earlier this year French government figures showed Rafale (Air Force version) costs at around $13.000 per hour.
Why would you want to compare the Mig 35 with the Gripen? A twin engine fighter which is known for being fuel and maintenance hungry in comparison to a single engine western fighter? There shouldn't be big surprises.

I see.
oh I just thought the Gripen and Mig-35 would be the lowest cost to purchase for Brazil or India compared Rafale/Typoon/F-18

so Mig-35 really that bad??

 

[Derolo]

Gripen E will cost 40-50 million

LCA mk1 costs 35-40 million.

I think LCA should be scrapped as its anyways doomed and Gripen should be inducted

 

[sancho]

I see.
oh I just thought the Gripen and Mig-35 would be the lowest cost to purchase for Brazil or India compared Rafale/Typoon/F-18

so Mig-35 really that bad??

Cost to purchase or cost to operate? That are 2 different things! The Mig 35 surely will be relatively cheap, but to operate it is a difficult task, that's why most Mig 29 operators are not going for the Mig 35 or are even trying to phase them out early (Malaysia for example).

 

[C130]

Cost to purchase or cost to operate? That are 2 different things! The Mig 35 surely will be relatively cheap, but to operate it is a difficult task, that's why most Mig 29 operators are not going for the Mig 35 or are even trying to phase them out early (Malaysia for example).

I see I'll have to further investigate.
and yeah I meant to buy outright.

 

[atlssa]

Gripen E will cost 40-50 million

LCA mk1 costs 35-40 million.

I think LCA should be scrapped as its anyways doomed and Gripen should be inducted

Gripen E will be way more expensive than that!

 

[Derolo]

Gripen E will be way more expensive than that!

$43 million
New Gripen Aims For Low Cost, High Capability | AWIN content from Aviation Week

TejasMk1 is in the $35-40 (Rs 200cr+) million range and has basic things like bvr, mid-air refuelling, ejection issues, helmet issues etc etc still pending. By the time of Mk1 induction cost should be around $55-60million say around 2016 mid.

Mk2 induction which at current rate may come post 2025 could easily cross the $150 million mark and offer less capability than a present Mirage 2000

 

[sancho]

I see I'll have to further investigate.
and yeah I meant to buy outright.

Since the new Mig is not sold, it's hard to find reliable sources for the price, but Russia ordered Mig 29SMTs for around $30 millions each, which should be the fly-away cost. Add some money for the upgrades of radar, engine and avionics and you should be around $50 millions too. The F18SH costs roughly $60 million if I remember right, Rafale and EF around $85 and 100 millions, all fly-away.

 

[atlssa]

$43 million
New Gripen Aims For Low Cost, High Capability | AWIN content from Aviation Week

TejasMk1 is in the $35-40 (Rs 200cr+) million range and has basic things like bvr, mid-air refuelling, ejection issues, helmet issues etc etc still pending. By the time of Mk1 induction cost should be around $55-60million say around 2016 mid.

Mk2 induction which at current rate may come post 2025 could easily cross the $150 million mark and offer less capability than a present Mirage 2000

They can say whatever they want, this is not realistic. The aircraft is not even ready. It is impossible to say how much it would cost. Besides, state of the art technology is expensive. We Brazilians are pretty sure the Gripen E final price will be high, really high.

 

[Derolo]

They can say whatever they want, this is not realistic. The aircraft is not even ready. It is impossible to say how much it would cost. Besides, state of the art technology is expensive. We Brazilians are pretty sure the Gripen E final price will be high, really high.

What ballpark figure are you expecting?

 

[sancho]

Gripen Brazil: 1 billion too much, and outstanding issues

On 27 October, the manufacturer SAAB announced it had reached with Brazil signed the contract for the acquisition of 36 JAS 39 Gripen new generation. Good news for the Air Force of Brazil awaiting the conclusion of the FX2 program for a decade, and for the Swedish manufacturer that perpetuates the future of its flagship program. Yet behind the good news lies what could become like two controversies. On one hand, the signing was done discreetly in August 2014 and the contract shows an additional cost of nearly a billion dollars over the expected cost in the selection of the aircraft, there is a year...

...What can explain this extra cost? As it stands, there is no official response, and for good reason. The contract was signed in secret in August 2014 a body of this acquisition, the COPAC (Comissão Coordenadora aeronave do Programa de Combate). Several reasons can be cited for this discrete signature. The first of them is related to the political life of Brazil, where elections were held in October. We can remember the premature announcement by French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who in 2009 had announced during a trip to Brazil that the Rafale was chosen by Lula's government. Far from thinking that our former president has had a vivid imagination, the fact that this announcement was made by the French president was badly lived in Brazil. It would be especially a break in the international cooperation on a record that would have put the choice in question. But the change of presidency there was also something. Therefore, to protect the contract of any policy change after the election, this signature has been kept secret. The defense group Saab does not make a mistake, it's the day after the re-election of Dilma Rousseff as the announcement of the signing of the contract was made public. For those who still doubt that politics is one of the elements, if not the most important element in the business of combat aircraft ...

Yet again it is the method that crumples. As president of the COPAC announced in early August that the final signature certainly intervene in the month of December 2014 ... So it will be cohosh least 10 days. Curious fact.

The other big issue is the cost. Why the contract value would it increased by 20% in eight months of negotiations? For the moment, there is no official response. Besides, it seems that the government is also seeking an answer to this thorny issue since parliamentary commission of inquiry has been expedited, and several experts should analyze the case and get their opinions...

Google Übersetzer

What ballpark figure are you expecting?

Question is, are the development cost for the twin seater included in the $5.4 billion, what kind of upgrades Brazil wants, that Sweden might not. What additional cost will the lease of Gripen C/Ds add as a stopgap. How much will the development of the Sea Gripen cost Brazil, what will be the final cost of the Gripen E anyway (procurement and per hour) since it's also under development only.